"Minor" coaching courses??? Are there?

[rristola]

I'm pretty new with these coaching courses, because I have found good enough coached from unemployed ones. Now I could use one course. But, is there suitable...?

 

My question is, what are the basic rules in 'sending to a coaching course'?

Let's say, a coach is sent to a course with original coaching attributes all 10 - what would be those numbers afterwards? How much randomness is there?

If a coach is at his best in attacking, can the biggest impact go to defending? Can the manager do anything to 'steer' that education?

If a coach is good in 'football theory', but bad as a teacher, are there any special courses for that? Or to specialise into youngsters?

 

This is the problem that I have right now.

I found into my amateur team a coach with tactical & attacking attributes both over 10, but with teaching skills... not worth mentioning.

 

I want to know, if there are / should be special coaching courses to improve

• teaching skills                                          - discipline, motivation, people management,...
• self knowing                                            - adaptability, determination, a bit of judging skills
• how to 'analyse' other people              - judging skills and negotiation
• working with youngsters                       - improves also a bit of discipline, motivation and people management
• special 'football skills'                         - like, a coach specialized in attacking gets the most recent knowledge in attacking (tactical), and those techical issues that goes with it (technical)    -    might only get +1 - +2 into attributes and ONLY in attacking, and MAYBE into tactical & technical

 

There could be a mechanism, that levels these attributes in hand. Like, with a teaching course, if 'Discipline, Motivation, People management' are 10, 6, 10 before, they could be 11, 8, 11 or 10, 9, 10 afterwards. Some randomness.

Could there be coaches, that just can't improve above a certain limit? Like, someone just isn't good with Youngsters?

Negative thing is, that prices wouldn't be cheap, but 'average'. Positive thing would be the possibility to improve certain exact sector.

 

So, tell me how these things work now, and if this sounds a good improvement.

If this gets voted, it might be tranferred into 'Requests'.

Thanks.

[rsihn]

1- Coaching staff tend to gain about 10CA per completed coaching course.  While I haven't done terribly in-depth testing on this (though I do log all my staff's hidden stats on a regular basis), it generally seems like staff with a better personality will gain a bit more from courses, with gains closer to 15CA per course. 

2- You do not have any input into where the gains are made when a staff member takes a course. 

3- WWY is a fixed stat for all staff members that aren't you (your manager) so choose wisely when you hire a staff member as this stat doesn't change. 

4-  Adaptability, discipline, and determination are also fixed stats (or very very unlikely to change) for staff members so, again, you need to choose your staff wisely when you initially hire them. 

5- You need a minimum combined 45 points in determination, discipline, and motivating to ever achieve a 5 star coaching rating in any category and since we've already mentioned that neither determination or discipline improve, this tells you that you need at least 25 points combined in these two stats for any coach you are considering hiring if you ever hope to achieve a 5 star coaching rating for a staff member. 

6- Staff members have PA (potential ability) just like players so they have a limit as to how much they can improve.  You (your manager) always has 200PA which ensures that you will always end up being the best manager in the world if you play for long enough. 

7- Your staff also improve in certain areas through "on the job training" and experience in the particular areas they are given as coaching assignments, provided they haven't hit their PA yet.  This tends to be much slower growth than the bigger jumps from coaching courses though.  

8- Staff also tend to have development curve similar to players, in that they will start to decline in some areas when they get into their late-50s to early 60s, particularly their motivating stat.  

[rristola]

Thanks, rsihn, for your comprehensive answer. Still, a few questions...

 

3. Is it good that WWY is fixed? Can't someone learn how to deal with youngsters? Maybe 2-3-4 points to its PA? Those other attributes tell how good you are as a teacher, this how good you are with a certain age group. I think you CAN learn that.

4. There are attributes that describe how good you are as a teacher (in FM). IRL the first basic coaching courses teach people to TEACH football (to children), not that much football. And that's why school teachers have their own special line in university.

    I think that Discipline shouldn't describe how strict you are with all your orders, but how good you are using more loose way if possible, and army style only when needed. Determination comes by nature, but also with knowledge, training and experience. So, you can learn that too.

    But, yeah, there should be a MAX value (PA) for every coach - everybody won't be perfect in coaching.

 

rsihn, what you wrote were the facts. What about your opinions? How would you change coaching courses, if any way?

[plcarlos]

I'm actually tracking the progress of a few coaches:

WWY - I think this is static. but I did not track this coaches starting stats

On The one I tracked DDM actually increased as per below: (Adaptabilty. Determisation, Disipline Motivating, and People Management) - 2 More are being tracked, but a long way off from completing courses).

          National A    Continetal C

A              15                 15

Det          15                 16

D              12                 12

M              9                   11

P               9                   10

So we can see that the courses can increase DDM. I've noted this on other low trained staff I've brought, but I've not tracked it as much so can't give the numbers as yet. Of course - CA\PA, Personality all come into play as well

The main reason for the low training courses in my case, is getting ex Pro's in as part of the coaching team (I just want to see how\if they can improve to be good coaches + I have enough to get away with lower coaches right now).

Edited September 4, 2022 by plcarlos

[rristola]

17 hours ago, plcarlos said:

I'm actually tracking the progress of a few coaches:

Nice work.

 

Question.

20 hours ago, rsihn said:

gains closer to 15CA per course.

If WWY and Adaptability, Discipline, and Determination are (or nearly) fixed, will all those gained CA points go into Coaching points (except WWY)? What about if you are / are not a GK? Is (Mental side) Tactical Knowledge something that can be improved?

 

I think that, yes, there are personal MAX values each coach has in skills and mental issues. It seems that in FM Devs like to use PA's, where they should use CA's - learning these skills and issues is possible. But only to your personal MAX.

Why else would there be in coaches' interviews "Experience has given me a lot of new perspective. I've learned a lot. And still do." (Not an exact quote.)

 

In your opinion, should there be more chances to improve your coaches using courses? Also Mental side?

[rsihn]

On 04/09/2022 at 13:59, rristola said:

Thanks, rsihn, for your comprehensive answer. Still, a few questions...

 

3. Is it good that WWY is fixed? Can't someone learn how to deal with youngsters? Maybe 2-3-4 points to its PA? Those other attributes tell how good you are as a teacher, this how good you are with a certain age group. I think you CAN learn that.

4. There are attributes that describe how good you are as a teacher (in FM). IRL the first basic coaching courses teach people to TEACH football (to children), not that much football. And that's why school teachers have their own special line in university.

    I think that Discipline shouldn't describe how strict you are with all your orders, but how good you are using more loose way if possible, and army style only when needed. Determination comes by nature, but also with knowledge, training and experience. So, you can learn that too.

    But, yeah, there should be a MAX value (PA) for every coach - everybody won't be perfect in coaching.

 

rsihn, what you wrote were the facts. What about your opinions? How would you change coaching courses, if any way?

I feel the existing system that SI employ is pretty solid, TBH. 

 

 

On 05/09/2022 at 10:07, rristola said:

Question.

If WWY and Adaptability, Discipline, and Determination are (or nearly) fixed, will all those gained CA points go into Coaching points (except WWY)? What about if you are / are not a GK? Is (Mental side) Tactical Knowledge something that can be improved?

 

I think that, yes, there are personal MAX values each coach has in skills and mental issues. It seems that in FM Devs like to use PA's, where they should use CA's - learning these skills and issues is possible. But only to your personal MAX.

Why else would there be in coaches' interviews "Experience has given me a lot of new perspective. I've learned a lot. And still do." (Not an exact quote.)

 

In your opinion, should there be more chances to improve your coaches using courses? Also Mental side?

-Tactical knowledge can improve through coaching courses and over time through experience. 

-The motivating and man management stats are the only ones that really change out of the mental stats for staff members.   All of the knowledge stats can change.  All of the coaching stats can change, except for WWY. 

-I can't think of anything I'd really change about the way coaching courses or a coach's development works.  The things I would like to see are more along the lines of your involvement and relationships with your staff members.  This would be things like clues about players, or other staff, not getting along with your youth team manager, for example, and you receiving emails from your technical director about this.  Players might miss training  or matches if they have low professionalism but we don't see any of these types of problems from staff members, at least directly.    Also, more clues about the potential of staff members.   These types of things could really give the Technical Director a much bigger role to play in the management and they could give ongoing advice regarding the development of your staff members the same way you receive advice about players. 

[rristola]

1 hour ago, rsihn said:

I feel the existing system that SI employ is pretty solid, TBH.

OK. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

My last question to you, have you chosen your assistants and other staff just to fill a certain need, or have you tried to "bond" promising staff talents and have them as your "coaching team members" - you being their mentor?

[rsihn]

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking?  

If you are asking whether I prefer to develop my own staff members, then yes I do, but this is also a function of playing unemployed, no badges or experience saves where I really don't have any choice other than to develop my own staff.   I usually have a very small pool of staff who are willing to sign with my teams in the beginning of the saves. I also like to develop my staff to be very well rounded rather than trying to min-max them to be excellent in only one category but again, that is usually because low level teams have limited staff sizes and budgets so you don't have room for specialist coaches. 

 

[rristola]

2 hours ago, rsihn said:

playing unemployed, no badges or experience

Me too.

 

What I tried to ask, was... when you have a job as a manager, getting your staff members to go to courses cost money - are you ready to invest that money, and at the same time build better relationships with them, and

if you ever have the chance to go to another team, do you try to get those same staff members to join you?

[rsihn]

I generally don't send them on courses at the lower levels because I like to try to use their training assignments to shape the stat allocation to have them favor a certain type of training and their development is out of your control when they go on coaching courses.  Eventually, someone else within the club usually ends up agreeing to send them on a course after awhile, despite me being in charge of this.  

Relationships with staff build over time with them listing you as their favored personnel somewhere between 2-3 years after working with you.  In my experience, if they haven't listed you by the end of 3 years, it is never going to happen.  Once you've been listed as their favored personnel, they will frequently be willing to follow you almost anywhere, including dropping down a couple of leagues and taking significant pay cuts to do so.  So yeah, I love having a group of loyal staff who accompany me during the entire course of my save and it pains me when they occasionally get a much better offer and move on. 

[rristola]

Thanks.