Red Bull and City Group model

[Miragepredator]

Has anyone been able to successfully been able to make a model similar to the mentioned Club ownerships?

What i am referring to is how Red Bull have Leipzig ,Salzburg, a club in Brazil and had one in Africa. Players that have adapted to the style of play that Red Bull teams play in. Once they have become good enough, they get a transfer into Salzburg and then if they outgrow them, could get into Leipzig.

Recently Boehly has mentioned buying a club in Portugal and had a bid rejected for Lyon. So i got interested in the idea. Im trying to implement this with Real Madrid, while using "add another manager" to become manager of PSV and Borussia Dortmund. I dont have the in-game editor so ive been holiday a few games and then taking control if results are bad. Im at the start of the 2nd season(started this save recently) and have hired a DOF and TD to essentially hire the staff and negotiate the deals for players while i set up the tactic and set the scouts. I set tactics with same fundamentals for the 3 clubs and train traits that i want( for example, plays one-twos and dictates tempo). For PSV, i scout players that are U21 and train them focused on technical attributes while improving their endurance or ball control/passing if necessary. For Dortmund, I scout U24s and sign players that are >PSV but <Madrid while signing players that fit these criteria from those clubs directly. I focus the training on mental attributes. For Madrid, the finances are terrible right now, managed to reduce wages a lot and sell deadwood.

So going back to the point, im interested in seeing if anyone has done this and has it been successful?

 

[dudge7]

It was a few years ago now but I remember a Reddit post where someone did it using Coca Cola as the brand, interesting read - 

 

[04texag]

I've been trying to think of what I want to do for FM23 and this really is sounding appealing to me. Time to research this fully and come up with a multiple team plan!!

[herne79]

I’ve been playing as “Red Bull London”  for a while now, making use of the Create a Club feature.  I use Leyton Orient as the base club.

During the Create a Club set up you can not only choose affiliated clubs (I choose all the Red Bull clubs) but also the type of affiliation.  There’s lots of choices in there, including sharing scouting knowledge, having the same Board, Marketing, loaning players, first option to buy players and so on.  You can also design the kit and club badge.

Not perfect but saves a lot of faffing about with multiple managers.

Edited October 6, 2022 by herne79

[04texag]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

I’ve been playing as “Red Bull London”  for a while now, making use of the Create a Club feature.  I use Leyton Orient as the base club.

During the Create a Club set up you can not only choose affiliated clubs (I choose all the Red Bull clubs) but also the type of affiliation.  There’s lots of choices in there, including sharing scouting knowledge, having the same Board, Marketing, loaning players, first option to buy players and so on.  You can also design the kit and club badge.

Not perfect but saves a lot of faffing about with multiple managers.

But do any of those options allow you to set tactics or really control transfers?

Ive never explored any of these things. 

[Miragepredator]

 

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

But do any of those options allow you to set tactics or really control transfers?

Ive never explored any of these things. 

Yh i have the same problems with that method. I would like to add these stuff plus hiring proper managers as my AM but dont have the ingame editor. So waiting for the next edition to do this. I am essentially just practising how im gonna do it rn. I just added managers to Sporting and Monaco. While thinking of whether to add a premier league team

[Matt_1979]

This is a topic i've often thought about but never in enough depth to properly figure it all out. 

Hopefully this thread grows and some interesting points and ideas continue to be made.

[Miragepredator]

I think ill post more on here once FM23 comes out. That way i can use the in-game editor to go through the process quicker.

On 05/10/2022 at 02:17, Miragepredator said:

Recently Boehly has mentioned buying a club in Portugal and had a bid rejected for Lyon. So i got interested in the idea. Im trying to implement this with Real Madrid, while using "add another manager" to become manager of PSV and Borussia Dortmund. I dont have the in-game editor so ive been holiday a few games and then taking control if results are bad. Im at the start of the 2nd season(started this save recently) and have hired a DOF and TD to essentially hire the staff and negotiate the deals for players while i set up the tactic and set the scouts. I set tactics with same fundamentals for the 3 clubs and train traits that i want( for example, plays one-twos and dictates tempo). For PSV, i scout players that are U21 and train them focused on technical attributes while improving their endurance or ball control/passing if necessary. For Dortmund, I scout U24s and sign players that are >PSV but <Madrid while signing players that fit these criteria from those clubs directly. I focus the training on mental attributes. For Madrid, the finances are terrible right now, managed to reduce wages a lot and sell deadwood.

I intend to do the same except manage a team on each continent and make the clubs affiliates so that the scouting range is shared

[Miragepredator]

Has anyone done a successful save for a DOF challenge? And do you have any tips on how you did so?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Miragepredator

[mp_87]

Yeah, I have attempted an epic Red Bull save a few times (but not for a few editions now).

Disclaimer: It took quite a bit of use of the pre-game editor to set up. The affiliations between all the various Red Bull clubs need(ed) correcting/strengthening. I would also go through each club and key staff (Chairman, DOF, HOYD, etc) and make sure all the club vision, person tactical attributes and tendencies, etc, were the same. The first Red Bull Brazil team had to be edited into the bottom playable division. Plus tidied up a few other bits and pieces.

The aim was to emulate the whole of the Red Bull philosophy. Trying to replicate that fast aggressive football Rangnick introduced, press to the max, 4-2-4, etc. Scouting and buying and developing athletic hardworking young players to fit this style of play. And also try and sell eventually and make massive profits and keep the conveyor belt going.

From that template you have options how you approach it. You can choose "DOF mode" and assign all the coaching stuff to assistants. You can choose just to be the coach and let the existing DOF handle the transfers and see what you get given to you. You can attempt to develop young coaching staff and indoctrinate them in the playing style (as Red Bull do irl). You can manage maybe just the European clubs, or all of them, what about the youth teams.....

Personally I jumped straight in at the deep end and took over them all and micro-managed everything  - Leipzig and it's youth team, Salzburg, Liefering, and the youth team, New York, and Brasil and it's youth team (and nowadays I might consider cheating and have Bragantino in A league and editing the original Brazil team into C league as your reserve/development team).

Tactically I developed a set of tactics in the style I wanted that each team used.

For transfers I tried to approach it true to life: The Americas were obviously mining for players from their domestic markets, plus the odd continental gem. Leipzig you obviously have a bit more free rein, domestic or European gems. Salzburg targeted a wider range of players from more obscure leagues and continents eg. Africa. In terms of age profile, predominantly youth signings. I'd try to limit the Americas to 19, maybe 21 in the US. Salzburg I tried to limit to 17 for European players, 19 for the wider world. Leipzig you do need more established players to compete, so allowed myself a max. age of 23 but trying to make that the exception rather than norm.

As for moving the players between clubs, I'd personally try to keep it true to life. Only get the player if there is a spot available for him, eg. selling someone else first. Don't just stockpile at the "top club" and neglect the others. Pay a fair price. If another club is offering more than you would be willing to, let him go there. As mentioned, developing and selling players should also be a big priority, so others can come through. I'd also try to stick to a method of aged 15/16 plays for youth team, at 17/18 if you have a reserve team eg. Liefering they're playing competitive games, then into the first team at 19 latest. 

An added challenge on top of all this is whether you play with attributes masked or not. With it you rely on your scouting networks and is probably the best way to play. In a save like this I preferred not to, because I found the deficiencies of scouting on FM meant they would never find the sorts of players with raw materials I would want. I wasn't after obvious wonderkids, I wanted those with my key DNA attributes, Natural fitness, Aggression, Work rate, etc. and often see some totally unheralded youth player with these attributes and think hmmm, wonder if I could do something with them?, which if left to my scouts I'd never be aware of.

Has to be said, it's a mammoth undertaking. I am a very slow player anyway, but this was extreme in the time it takes to progress. I remember the Americas teams in particular took ages to overhaul squads etc. But it was fun to refine the tactic and optimise it, whilst also having such choice and opportunity to scout and buy young talent from across the globe and see what could be developed. Unfortunately I've only ever got about a year or so into these saves. One time life simply got in the way, another the file got corrupted, but never been able to see this "challenge" play out. Maybe this year.....

[Miragepredator]

This has been the system that i have used across each team(bar Dortmund, who had very good strikers after the second season but changed back later on). Small alterations made each season

 

 

 

Scouting:

For scouting assignments, i assign the scouts to scout in their nation or the one with the most knowledge if there is too many from that nation. For example, Sporting, i sent scouts to Portugal and Brazil 

The criteria was Superb potential and U21 or u23

 

To filter through the players I made sure to look at attributes and needed a few attributes to be atleast 12 (if they are 18y/o, more leniency) which were, Technical, First Touch, Work Rate, Determination and dribbling(except CB's). If they have too many stats below 6, then i ignored them. And depending on which club, i set max Transfer value to be 20mill.

I would then scout these players for a week, then discard any that are below 3 stars and continue scouting like that.

 

There were 3 other methods i used to scout for players;

Method 1:

I used a filter that i believe @Rashidimade, which is,

U20, atleast 5 caps and 7.0 average rating.

 

Method 2:

I would look through the players we already have knowledge on

u21, scouted abilty at 3*(which i think is "good") and then i would scout and filter like above.

 

Method 3:

u21, scouted potential at 5*(sometimes 4*) and then i would scout and filter like above.

[Miragepredator]

Training:

This is the schedule for the team at the top of the model, a blend of technical and mental training

 

This is for the middle set of 2 teams where mental attributes are developed

 

 

This is for the teams at the bottom where the main job of scouting and buying young players is done, Develop the technicals while improving their workrate through individual training

 

 

Individual Training and Traits:

Centre Backs:

Focus: Technicals so that none of them are below 10, and Strength so that it is not below 15

Traits: Recently, i have been adding the trait "Plays ball to feet". Truthfully, I am not sure whether my interpretation of this trait is correct, but i think it means that the play is more willing to receive a pass to feet (Like passing to a player even though he is being pressed)    (Having typed this up, i recalled the traits Plays way out of trouble and Brings Ball out of Defence which may also satisfy those criteria but i also cannot think of a reason why CB's would have this trait)

 

Full/Wing Backs:

Focus: Technicals and Workrate

Traits: Plays ball to feet, Switches play

 

Mezzala( Usually well rounded players with atleast 13 tackling): 

Focus: Technicals and Workrate

Traits: Arrive late into box, plays one-twos, Dictates Tempo, Switches play

 

Rest of the team:

Focus: Technicals and Workrate

Traits: Gets into box, plays one-twos, Dictates Tempo(bar CF), Beats offside trap and try killer balls 

[poma]

12 hours ago, Miragepredator said:

This has been the system that i have used across each team(bar Dortmund, who had very good strikers after the second season but changed back later on). Small alterations made each season

 

 

 

Can U show the last or complete instructions?

 

[Miragepredator]

i think their might be slight changes to the tactic since i saved it but, In-Transition and Out of possession is the same

MADRID 4-2-3-1 (V3).fmf

[Miragepredator]

In the Pre-Game editor, does it let you choose the "Tends to" and "Tends not to" for staff like the DOF and TD

Edited October 15, 2022 by Miragepredator

[ta11zx]

so did anyone figure out a way to do this without adding a new manager for every club you own?

[Miragepredator]

3 hours ago, ta11zx said:

so did anyone figure out a way to do this without adding a new manager for every club you own?

Personally, im gonna add manager but to be able to do it without, then i guess you need to use the pre-game editor and the in-game editor, that way you can choose the managers for each club but you wont be able to directly choose the system the team uses. You will just have to choose by their profile information and you dont really have full control of who they sign but you can move players to the club. You also can choose DOFs and TDs who fit the philosophy you desire

[tjt65]

I've been eyeing up doing this for FM23 - as a way of playing the game a bit differently.

As has been mentioned in the thread; the plan would be the AssMans are in theory the Managers (carefully chosen by me) and I would be in control of a series of DoFs (who are actually the in-game managers). Use a lot of delegation etc to keep things from not grinding too slowly.

I had plans for about a 7 team group, but that may be a bit insane! So may start with 3 and see how we go...

 

[Miragepredator]

6 hours ago, tjt65 said:

I've been eyeing up doing this for FM23 - as a way of playing the game a bit differently.

As has been mentioned in the thread; the plan would be the AssMans are in theory the Managers (carefully chosen by me) and I would be in control of a series of DoFs (who are actually the in-game managers). Use a lot of delegation etc to keep things from not grinding too slowly.

I had plans for about a 7 team group, but that may be a bit insane! So may start with 3 and see how we go...

 

Yh 7 teams is a bit much for the initial trial of this. Pls do use this thread to keep inform, how the process is going.

Im gonna start it once the official release happens, im gonna use the beta to get used to the game