IW/IF doesn't stay high and wide without holding hands with the Mezzala?

[markoconnell]

Hi, I'm trying the replicate the Pep's 235 positional play but I'm having trouble getting to IW/IF to stay high and wide with the Mezzala on support or attack without occupying the same space. I've tried messing around with the CM(a) but they were too high up, almost acting like a second striker in the early attacking phase. BBM however were a little too deep.

[Lasson]

Have you tried CM(s) with ‘Get further forward’?

Edited November 17, 2022 by Lasson

[Fantasista10]

You have to use a Winger role if you’re going to get anything like Pep’s 2-3-5 in the final third. 
 

The Winger role has been tweaked this year to really hold its width in the final third. It’s not quite an accurate representation of how Pep’s wingers play, but if you use them on their ‘inverted’ foot with Traits to Cut Inside, it actually works quite well. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Fantasista10

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, markoconnell said:

Hi, I'm trying the replicate the Pep's 235 positional play but I'm having trouble getting to IW/IF to stay high and wide with the Mezzala on support or attack without occupying the same space. I've tried messing around with the CM(a) but they were too high up, almost acting like a second striker in the early attacking phase. BBM however were a little too deep.

Post up your tactic 

[Lordluap]

Would it not force the wide men that bit wider if you used them in the WM position as Winger/Attack or Inverted WInger/Attack... and change the Mezzala to Central Midfielder/Support with Get Further Forward/Wider/Roam (if selectable)?

 

I'm not on FM23 but that kind of thing always worked for me on 21 & 22.

[(sic)]

3 hours ago, Fantasista10 said:

You have to use a Winger role if you’re going to get anything like Pep’s 2-3-5 in the final third. 
 

The Winger role has been tweaked this year to really hold its width in the final third. It’s not quite an accurate representation of how Pep’s wingers play, but if you use them on their ‘inverted’ foot with Traits to Cut Inside, it actually works quite well. 

+1. While they do hold the width better this year, especially if you train "hugs the line" trait, they're just missing something. They often get in the way of the Mezzala, especially if they're both on support duty. So I do prefer Wingers to IWs in that sense.

Wingers with with their stronger foot on the opposite side of where they're playing on, and with cuts inside trait work much better imo. They hold their width, they do cut in sometimes (honestly I found them cutting in with the ball more than the IWs do, which is definitely weird, maybe the actual trait works better than the PI), but they also do run to the byline and cross (not from the wide areas, but instead on the edge of the box), instead of just turning around and looking for options (though it helps to have a player who's comfortable with both feet).
Though it all depends on what you want from the player/role. If I want the wide player to actually operate in half-spaces, and be a more creative type, I'd often pick IW-S and tell him to sit narrow, Roam from position, etc.

4 hours ago, markoconnell said:

Hi, I'm trying the replicate the Pep's 235 positional play but I'm having trouble getting to IW/IF to stay high and wide with the Mezzala on support or attack without occupying the same space. I've tried messing around with the CM(a) but they were too high up, almost acting like a second striker in the early attacking phase. BBM however were a little too deep.

CM-A does often seem to play as a second striker, especially in the buildup, so you get something like a 4-2-4, if you play a 4-3-3 formation. Support duties can be too conservative, and too deep. I'd just mess around with mentality settings. AP-A would also work, as he doesn't really play like a CM-A. He will go forward often, but he'll also drop back when needed in the buildup.

I used a formation with no attacking duties and an Attacking mentality. So the midfielders who were on support were more willing to go forward, but they would also sometimes help in the buildup.
Also I found that the more attacking mentalities are better in the buildup, as they don't look to kick it long as often, for no reason. Player traits like "Tries to play way out of trouble" are great for this as well. and if you train this trait to your back 5 (back 4 + DM), it works wonderfully. Though you obviously need players with good attributes to do this (Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Vision, Agility, Balance, First Touch, Passing, Technique, Dribbling, Acceleration) - are all important to have imo).

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by (sic)