ThomasHK1979 Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 (edited) @Rashididid this masterpiece tactic in FM21. It’s simply the best tactic I ever used. The question is if it could be converted into a 4231DM tactic for FM23? Especially around the DM roles Edited December 3, 2022 by ThomasHK1979 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egecann Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 DM-defend and DM-support. They have the same mentalities with CM roles. The rest is the same tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 @ThomasHK1979 If you're looking for a straight replication of the original tactics, I'd set it up like this: However, to make it work under this year's ME, I'd make some tweaks and set it up like this (still trying to keep the Bayern-under-Flick playing-style): To replicate Bayern's asymetric shape in attack, make sure you instruct the DL and the AMR to 'stay wider' and the AML to 'sit narrower'. Davies will run up and down the left flank and provide width, enabling the AML to live in the left half-space while Goretzka's deep runs will occupy the right half-space (IRL Bayern play this a tad different: Müller usually has a tendency to drift right to the half-space and Goretzka replaces him in the centre, but that's pretty hard to replicate in FM without picking a completely different shape). In the buildup, they use a 3-man buildup with the left CB (Upa in this example, could also be Lucas Hernandez) moving to the left a bit, creating a 3-man DL with the right CB central and the DR (used to be Pavard, got replaced by Mazraoui lately) linking between defense and midfield. The DR role could also be interpreted as an IWB, depending on who's playing the role: Pavard usually keeps a bit more with while Mazraoui tends to move centrally, basically replacing Goretzka when he's on his forward runs. When defending, they usually shift to a 442: The ST and AMC pressure the opposing centre backs, the wingers are on the opposing full backs, Goretzka & Kimmich are very aggressive pressuring any DM/CM player who might drop deep. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Just did a quick holliday-sim with my tweaked Bayern replication (the one at the bottom of my previous post): 32p from 14 games is ok but not great in my opinion. IRL Bayern have 34p from 15 games at the moment, so the sim was pretty much in line with reality. I'm content with defensive stability (fewest goals conceded, fewest shots against, most clean sheets) but I think we still need to improve the attacking side of the tactics, becoming more dominant. Possession numbers and overall goals/chances need to be increased (which can be somewhat of a contradiction on FM). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutumba Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 What does your OI looks like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 vor 12 Minuten schrieb Mutumba: What does your OI looks like? None so far. I didn't plan to create a full-fledged tactic with framework (e.g. OI). This was just intended to provide an idea on how to replicate the Bayern tactic on FM23. However, I like the idea of the tactic, so I might continue to try to improve it from a basic idea to a full-fledged tactic in the next couple of days... Any ideas on how to improve attacking (goals/chances/possession) without sacrificing defensive stability? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 On 03/12/2022 at 09:21, burnum said: However, to make it work under this year's ME, I'd make some tweaks and set it up like this (still trying to keep the Bayern-under-Flick playing-style): That is pretty much the same as one of the Bayern set up's I've been using. Only difference is I have one BPD and Davies & Kimmich are on Support. That sort of 4-2-3-1 DM "base" with the back 4 and DM's works so well. Kimmich holding allowing Davies to fly, the FB to help cover for the Volante Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasHK1979 Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Johnny Ace said: That is pretty much the same as one of the Bayern set up's I've been using. Only difference is I have one BPD and Davies & Kimmich are on Support. That sort of 4-2-3-1 DM "base" with the back 4 and DM's works so well. Kimmich holding allowing Davies to fly, the FB to help cover for the Volante Tried it. It went okay, but it’s really really difficult to get your wingers to perform good in 4231. They often only get 6.5-6.90 avr. per season. Even if my team wins the championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said: Tried it. It went okay, but it’s really really difficult to get your wingers to perform good in 4231. They often only get 6.5-6.90 avr. per season. Even if my team wins the championship. Can't say I agree, I find they perform fine myself: I usually always have my wide attackers on Support in a 4-2-3-1 DM and they rate and perform well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasHK1979 Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said: Can't say I agree, I find they perform fine myself: I usually always have my wide attackers on Support in a 4-2-3-1 DM and they rate and perform well Really nice 👍. Can I ask if you apply any PI’s. Especially on your AMC? And also do you find any role better than the other for your wingers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said: Really nice 👍. Can I ask if you apply any PI’s. Especially on your AMC? And also do you find any role better than the other for your wingers? No PIs, I'll sometimes add dribble more, take more risks, shoot more depending on the player but Bayern players have a load of traits so I just let them do their thing. IF is usually a stable and I'd usually mix it up, one IW, one IF. I did have an IF on the left but found he wasn't tracking track fast enough so changed it The wide AP(A) is probably my favourite role in the game right now and is great for Muller Stay away from the Raumdeuter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasHK1979 Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said: No PIs, I'll sometimes add dribble more, take more risks, shoot more depending on the player but Bayern players have a load of traits so I just let them do their thing. IF is usually a stable and I'd usually mix it up, one IW, one IF. I did have an IF on the left but found he wasn't tracking track fast enough so changed it The wide AP(A) is probably my favourite role in the game right now and is great for Muller Stay away from the Raumdeuter Thanks. I really struggle getting my IF perform in a 4231 system. Maybe IW is better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frukox Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 saat önce, Johnny Ace said: No PIs, I'll sometimes add dribble more, take more risks, shoot more depending on the player but Bayern players have a load of traits so I just let them do their thing. IF is usually a stable and I'd usually mix it up, one IW, one IF. I did have an IF on the left but found he wasn't tracking track fast enough so changed it The wide AP(A) is probably my favourite role in the game right now and is great for Muller Stay away from the Raumdeuter Muller should still be used in the middle as a creator but only in the middle due to his declining physicals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frukox Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 50 dakika önce, ThomasHK1979 said: Thanks. I really struggle getting my IF perform in a 4231 system. Maybe IW is better. What is your system? He is probably deprived of either space or supply/support or both:) Edited December 5, 2022 by frukox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, frukox said: Muller should still be used in the middle as a creator but only in the middle due to his declining physicals. He's brilliant out wide for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frukox Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 2 dakika önce, Johnny Ace said: He's brilliant out wide for me Can you show me his FM23 profile? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, frukox said: Can you show me his FM23 profile? Not now, I'm in another save, look him up You can see above, he's my top performing attacker, but I play him AM, STR and AP(A) on the right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frukox Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 2 dakika önce, Johnny Ace said: Not now, I'm in another save, look him up I see, after a small search I found that he still has some speed, excellent passing ability as well as exceptional mentals. Great choice, Johnny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, frukox said: I see, after a small search I found that he still has some speed, excellent passing ability as well as exceptional mentals. Great choice, Johnny Yeah, he's great out there, his footballing intelligence is off the charts in FM, in a role with a lot of freedom, he pops up all over the place on that right hand side 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasHK1979 Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) @Johnny AceI can see you play with “slightly more wide” setting. I always play with “narrow” or “slightly more narrow”. Could that explain why my IF/IW does not perform so good? I simply need to play with more width? Edited December 5, 2022 by ThomasHK1979 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said: @Johnny AceI can see you play with “slightly more wide” setting. I always play with “narrow” or “slightly more narrow”. Could that explain why my IF/IW does not perform so good? I simply need to play with more width? I don't add any width mate, it's just left default. You could try experimenting with width and watching how it plays out in attacks It might be worth posting some screenshots of your tactic either here if it applies to this thread or by opening another, see if there's anything obvious in there, I always have no problem with wide attackers performing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krript Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 is there any winter update for this tactic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 21 hours ago, krript said: is there any winter update for this tactic? Which one? They're just Bayern templates, Just try any and tweak as you see fit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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