QF4: England vs France, 7PM GMT, Al Bayt Stadium

[git2thachoppa]

1 minute ago, skybluedave said:

git2thachoppa, more like git2thatlogoffbutton

Said the guy with 28,000 posts. Top bants etc.

[GunmaN1905]

3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 Kane isn't a proper striker because he doesn't score against good sides  

Oh, he's a great striker, just not someone who delivers in the biggest moments.

The captain, the golden boot, leading scorer etc, but in the past three matches you were eliminated, he failed. And is directly to blame for two. Point blank sitter at 1-0 in 2018, today he missed one sitter and a penalty. 

For example, Lukaku rightfully gets the flat track bully reputation, but Kane is the same level of player. Just isn't clumsy with the ball, so it doesn't look bad. But mentality wise, they're up there.

To be a top striker, you need to be a bit of a c*nt. Kane is too nice.

[Darren Moores Mum]

8 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Oh, he's a great striker, just not someone who delivers in the biggest moments.

The captain, the golden boot, leading scorer etc, but in the past three matches you were eliminated, he failed. And is directly to blame for two. Point blank sitter at 1-0 in 2018, today he missed one sitter and a penalty. 

For example, Lukaku rightfully gets the flat track bully reputation, but Kane is the same level of player. Just isn't clumsy with the ball, so it doesn't look bad. But mentality wise, they're up there.

To be a top striker, you need to be a bit of a c*nt. Kane is too nice.

What current top strikers are we comparing him to? And I mean on an international stage.

[enigmatic]

3 minutes ago, AM99 said:

I mean, if we're talking English managers (on the basis that I don't think we'll go the foreign route should Southgate leave) he is the best outside of Potter and Howe. Personally I'd be happy with him managing England.

Think Dyche might have done well five years ago when we were a bit bereft of confidence and all the other big sides seemed to have better players than us... the sort of situation he's spent basically his entire career dealing with

But the idea the golden generation is being wasted on defensive Gareth so what we really need is Dyche to take the shackles off is hilarious. 

 

1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Oh, he's a great striker, just not someone who delivers in the biggest moments.

The captain, the golden boot, leading scorer etc, but in the past three matches you were eliminated, he failed. And is directly to blame for two. Point blank sitter at 1-0 in 2018, today he missed one sitter and a penalty. 

For example, Lukaku rightfully gets the flat track bully reputation, but Kane is the same level of player. Just isn't clumsy with the ball, so it doesn't look bad. But mentality wise, they're up there.

To be a top striker, you need to be a bit of a c*nt. Kane is too nice.

Taking your criteria of "OK, he scored in two of those big games but he also missed chances and didn't score in the one he didn't get a chance," for not delivering in the big moments precisely no strikers have ever been good.

I guess that he's in good company with being too nice with Cristiano  

The Lukaku thing is overblown (weight control problems and having no first touch is a much bigger problem than scoring more goals against bottom half sides than the "big six") but Kane has so many more goals against big sides than him its funny to compare the two...

[Icondacarver]

1 hour ago, Confused Clarity said:

There were times when he looked like the biggest leader on the field. 

He's 19 years old FFS.

Give it time, he will make one key mistake and the press will pile in on him. He will become risk-averse and seek to play in a way that means the press don't vilify him.

Daily Mail have not yet found the angle to start a vendetta against him yet. That is in their 2024/25 plans.

[mrw072]

I've only just seen this thread, so haven't read the previous pages.  But personally I thought England were great, they didn't start well but really pressurised France especially in the 2nd half and only remember Giroud having those two chances.  When he scored one.  But apart from that they were on the back foot.  I guess that's why they're World Champions though, by being able to do that.

For me England just lack a striker who can play with Kane, as he sometimes drops very deep, and we need someone who can get on the end of loose balls or crosses in the box.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

First penalty at 2:49, second one at 7:37

Looks familiar...

[Rebs]

Beliiiiiieeeeeeve.

Oh, no, that's passed.

Anyway, give Gareth another go I say. I think we should be proud how we did. We looked just as good as anyone else. 

[Rebs]

Also, Kane is da bomb....probs best striker we've ever had or certainly in the argument for best ever. Matches and pens like tonight just happen.

[mrw072]

Just now, Rebs said:

Beliiiiiieeeeeeve.

Oh, no, that's passed.

Anyway, give Gareth another go I say. I think we should be proud how we did. We looked just as good as anyone else. 

It's fine margins.  If Maguire's header had gone in.  What then?  I think England just lack a striker to play with Kane.  It would mean dropping either Foden or Saka but I just don't feel theyr'e natural goalscorers.

[Divinity]

1 hour ago, ginnybob said:

Bloody Maguire ruining our clean sheet.

Wasn't Henderson booked before that?

[Darren Moores Mum]

4 minutes ago, Divinity said:

Wasn't Henderson booked before that?

I don't think he did get booked, though I think some suggestion was made on commentary? Score sites and BBC don't appear to have him down as being booked, only Maguire.

[Divinity]

Replays here showed it pretty conclusively, with Henderson even visibly asking 'what was that for'. Seemed pretty obvious at the time.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

I thought he was booked tbf.

[Darren Moores Mum]

I thought he was but that was going off Matterface, and he's less than reliable. Then looking on score sites he didn't appear to have been booked. Even FIFAs site doesn't show it.

Edited December 11, 2022 by ginnybob

[skybluedave]

Yeah Henderson didn't get booked. Was it catching Hernandez on the touch line? Matterface assumed he was gonna get booked. 

[Divinity]

Was a foul on Mbappe.

[_mxrky]

Laughing about some of the comments on Saka saying he should be subbed in the first half. you guys were watching a different game. It can’t have been this one. Also at what point do we admit Saka is bette than Foden. Far more impactful almost every single England game.

[Christmas]

Absolutely delightful seeing Harry Maguire suffer. Least likeable player in a world which includes Cristiano Ronaldo. 

Constantly whining at the referee and diving in France's box. Then speaking nonsense about the ref in the post match interview. Utter *****. 

Game was disappointing. Would have much rather seen a comedy implosion rather than what we got, a finely balanced game where France just got better of the breaks. Well played England. Feel for the excellent Saka and the under-used Rashford. Subs largely harmed England. 

[Christmas]

4 hours ago, Divinity said:

Was a foul on Mbappe.

Sterling shoved Mbappe to the floor leading to an England break. But the corrupt referee didn't give two-penalty England anything. 

[Divinity]

3 minutes ago, Christmas said:

Sterling shoved Mbappe to the floor leading to an England break. But the corrupt referee didn't give two-penalty England anything. 

Not sure what value any of your comment brings considering Henderson wasn't on the pitch when Sterling was, but you fight that fight.  

[Christmas]

18 minutes ago, Divinity said:

Not sure what value any of your comment brings considering Henderson wasn't on the pitch when Sterling was, but you fight that fight.  

It just seemingly wasn't related to your comment at all, in error. 

[Anthrax Dave]

That's the last time I watch an England game sober. If I was drunk, we would have won. Damn flu.

[dking]

9 hours ago, Confused Clarity said:

At one point I thought @dking was going to go "Falling Down" on everybody.  

dking has just been made redundant so probably not far from the truth.

Merry Christmas!

[Confused Clarity]

3 minutes ago, dking said:

dking has just been made redundant so probably not far from the truth.

Merry Christmas!

Well that royally sucks. Having had that happen to me, I know its really not a nice feeling or a place to be in. It must be especially bad at this time of year.

Don't know the specifics of your situation, but with mine, I was let go at the end of the month, with no warning, and just before the two year protections would kick in. I was effectively put on gardening leave for the following month. I then treated that month as if my full time job was to get a new job. I justvapplied for everything,  chased recruiters, went to interviews and then was able to get sorted.

It wasn't the nicest of feelings though for sure. But there is light on the other side.

[Ackter]

Southgates squad choices were total bollocks too. He used, what, 15 players regularly?

Theres a reason he didn't touch the other 10 or however many, which means he picked players he didn't trust in his system and also has a complete inability to change the system in any way with different players.

He's not good enough to win anything because he only has one plan.

[error username in use]

I know everyone loves the glow of doing alright but Southgate has had the best player pool we probably have ever had and come up with nothing.

2018, we beat the dross and lost to anyone half decent 

2020/21, we had a home Euros and only played one good team and lost that

2022 another bunch of no mark wins and a loss as soon as someone proper is put in front of us 

it’s not good enough to chuck this generation away just because he has got the team to be friends and wears waistcoats. 

our problem is who else is there that is ready for the job and would take it right now?

[nico_france]

Il y a 9 heures, Rebs a dit :

If we'd have had a ref who made the correct calls as the majority of the world saw it we'd have won. On top of that, we generally seem to have been seen as the better side in the match.

Gareth should stay, it's been a good tournament from us. 

Sure the refs fault, the second penalty was a total no brainer

Mount could not get that ball, but still

I’m sorry but when you can only rely on penalties to score, because you can’t make it  otherwise 

You just can’t win, had to be more clinical upfront

Great generation of players in any case, don’t understand why Saka did not remain on the pitch, as he was the most dangerous player upfront 

 

[Mr Adam]

Having slept on it and not read any other opinion yet as don’t want mine to be influenced,

1) I am happy for Gareth to stay. He’s done a good enough job to have earned the right to stay if he wants to.

2) Equally I would not begrudge him walking away if he feels it’s time for change. Because fresh ideas ARE needed

3) Perhaps it’s time he brought in a second assistant manager to work with him and Steve Holland at the Euros. That person COULD be a high profile coach who then could go on to replace him for the World Cup. And they should be strong enough to provide that additional tactical thinking to help mix it up a bit.

 

Steven Gerrard or Wayne Rooney to become his assistant? I’d trust Gareth enough to be honest with the FA as to whether they’re ready when Gareth steps aside in 2 years.

The most likely candidate whether anybody likes it or not is Phil Neville. Which would seem very Southgate MK2

[Mr Adam]

4 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Laughing about some of the comments on Saka saying he should be subbed in the first half. you guys were watching a different game. It can’t have been this one. Also at what point do we admit Saka is bette than Foden. Far more impactful almost every single England game.

Saka definitely fits the way this England side plays better than Foden does. But Foden is the better player. It’s closer than many think tho.

Despite our decent run, I’d say probably Saka and strangely Harry Kane would be the only players to have come out of it with enhanced reputations. 

[Lucas]

Maguire too, and probably Jude Bellingham (if only because for many they won't have seen him much). 

I would like Gareth to think about his future within the FA beyond being manager as I hope he stays in some way. He's a great ambassador and it would hurt to just lose him. 

Not sure who comes in as an apprentice to be manager though. 

 

[Weezer]

[Baptista_8]

@PMLF is Wilton Sampaio always that tragically bad?

[Baptista_8]

27 minutes ago, nico_france said:

Sure the refs fault, the second penalty was a total no brainer

Mount could not get that ball, but still

I’m sorry but when you can only rely on penalties to score, because you can’t make it  otherwise 

You just can’t win, had to be more clinical upfront

Great generation of players in any case, don’t understand why Saka did not remain on the pitch, as he was the most dangerous player upfront 

 

Tougher to create chances when Upamecano is kicking lumps out of people and getting away with it every single time.

[Toffle]

Sure you could complain if the ref had been very one-sided. But he gave you 2 pens, booked Griezmann right after a clear foul on Mbappé, and kept the same idea not to whistle at every little foul (for both teams!) which was very pleasant.. Many people outside of England think the ref did a great job actually. Just read the whole thread and not only English comments.

You didn't lose that game because of the ref, find other excuses.

 

[Confused Clarity]

Both he & VAR chose to ignore when Giroud got shoved over in the box off the ball too. Could easily have been given, even if it's a bit of a rarity. 

He allowed a robust, physical game to flow. In an alternative universe, people would be complaining that he was whistle happy and ruined the game with all the stoppages.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Confused Clarity

[Constantine]

33 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Classy...

And I see some of you are still going with that "ref was terrible" rhetoric. Can we get a word or two from few neutrals, non-English users?

Because I genuinely don't think he's done a bad job. He was well consistent with his criteria. Didn't blow the whistle for every touch. Let the game going well. Honestly, some performances from referees were shocking in Qatar but I really don't see how this one was "atrocious".

[yann]

No inspiration from English side, only falling around penalty zone and crying on the ref, your only chances where on set pieces. It's no enough to beat France.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by yann

[Smallen]

The ref was an absolute disaster.

[ajw10]

some very, very odd people in this thread

[Lucas]

23 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Tougher to create chances when Upamecano is kicking lumps out of people and getting away with it every single time.

Tbh the game is 90 minutes, if a team is relying on the referee for a result and they can't win from open play, they probably don't deserve to.

I felt we were the better side in parts but we lack incisiveness in certain areas. We lack a creative CM and everything goes down the wings with Harry dropping deep because there isn't a CM who can create like he has done for us (until we try Foden/Grealish as a 10). We played really well this tournament compared to the last two but we didn't do as well from set plays as we have done which could have given us an edge.

Maguire was unlucky with his header, but other than that, it was fine margins and there isn't really an excuse. Another day we'd have won and we'd be worrying about how we'd break down Morroco. 

[Weezer]

9 minutes ago, Constantine said:

Classy...

And I see some of you are still going with that "ref was terrible" rhetoric. Can we get a word or two from few neutrals, non-English users?

Because I genuinely don't think he's done a bad job. He was well consistent with his criteria. Didn't blow the whistle for every touch. Let the game going well. Honestly, some performances from referees were shocking in Qatar but I really don't see how this one was "atrocious".

Whilst those are clearly the doings of an edgy 15 year old there was a clear bias towards the French imho. I think there’s been a not particularly subtle bias towards the traditional ‘big’ nations and players throughout the tournament tbh.

Not giving the penalty for the foul on Kane and then needing VAR to shame him into giving the 2nd penalty was shocking tbh.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Weezer

[craigcwwe]

11 hours ago, outlander said:

And it's not as if the goal was scored from the counter attack. England was able to regroup defensively, so that was just one of the possession attacks at that time.

VAR could not even review it because of that. 

A bit naive to blame that goal on the ref.

Actually VAR did look at the first French goal. Per the commentator anyway. 

[Confused Clarity]

6 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

some very, very odd people in this thread

Care to elaborate beyond that?

[Toffle]

7 minutes ago, Weezer said:

needing VAR to shame him into giving the 2nd penalty was shocking tbh

Shocking? This game surely is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) in the ref's life. It's HIS game to referee. If he decides to use VAR to make sure he's taking the right decision, let him do so. No shaming here.

[SC00P0NE]

Yea, the ref did seem to have some weird french fetish somehow.. The French didn't look like world champions for almost the entire game. Theo, what a donkey and Upamecano, the french maniac.. Then, Griezmann & Giroud, Pitchfork did well the frist time, second english defense should have known better..

As a neutral, more or less, the french don't deserve any pride or bragging rights after this performance.. Even really had to question their attitude at times but the english also didn't really deliver quailty chances..

You definitely made the french squad lose a whole lot of prestige.. The brazilians won the award for best goals and chances of this world cup as far I am concerned. The Croatians and Morocco  possess unbelieveable determination, though, and the Argentines are determined to get their magic man his only missing piece for everlasting goat status..

Edited December 11, 2022 by SC00P0NE
spelling

[Citizen Sandman]

Just now, Toffle said:

Shocking? This game surely is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) in the ref's life. It's HIS game to referee. If he decides to use VAR to make sure he's taking the right decision, let him do so. No shaming here.

He called it as a no foul originally so your comment doesn't really work 

[TM]

can't be bothered reading back but did Matterface actually say "England needed a Lineker, instead they got a Waddle" when Kane missed the 2nd penalty?

I'm sure some will have a wee laugh at it but that's disrespectful towards someone who is almost certainly going to becoming the England all time goalscorer and has saved them on numerous occasions.  I watched the BBC replay last night and Mowbray was saying Kane has been England's hero/saviour in the past and didn't deserve it

then again I could just start this with "it's Matterface, he's terrible at his job"

[Toffle]

5 minutes ago, Citizen Kane said:

He called it as a no foul originally so your comment doesn't really work 

Doesn't he know VAR is there in case he has a doubt (because he's too far and doesn't expect such a stupid foul at that time) and decide not to whistle?

Edited December 11, 2022 by Toffle

[enigmatic]

Just now, TM said:

can't be bothered reading back but did Matterface actually say "England needed a Lineker, instead they got a Waddle" when Kane missed the 2nd penalty?

I'm sure some will have a wee laugh at it but that's disrespectful towards someone who is almost certainly going to becoming the England all time goalscorer and has saved them on numerous occasions.  I watched the BBC replay last night and Mowbray was saying Kane has been England's hero/saviour in the past and didn't deserve it

then again I could just start this with "it's Matterface, he's terrible at his job"

England needed a Wostenholme and we got a Matterface