[FM23] How to defend in 4231 and attack in 343

[sonnevillejr]

Hi everyone,

I just finished my first season finishing 2nd, trying to replicate a real life tactic (Paulo Fonseca).

I struggled sometimes and changed a few roles during the season and finally I came up with this :

As you can see my aim is to defend in 4231 and attack in some kind of 343 and to propose some attractive football. Basically my right fullback stays back to form a back 3 (I know this is not 100% a back 3 but nevermind) and the width is provided by the right winger. 

During most of the season I used an inverted winger on support on the right, so I was playing with a wing-back on defend to give a bit of width. I got some good results and saw the positions I wanted (I think this is closer to the real life tactic actually).

But IRL, Paulo Fonseca can also use a true winger on his right foot, that's why I gave the winger role in the final games of the season, and a simple fullback on defend in order not to be redondant (2 players with run wide with ball).

This is the kind of formation I want to see when in possession :

Obviously here the ball is on the right hand side so my full back on defend is wide but that's okay.

Here we can see my trequartista (number 17) acting almost like a right attacking midfielder and this is exactly what I want to see.

However, it seemed he didn't take this position as often as I would like to, especially when using a true winger since there is more space then, that's why I added the focus play in the final game.

My question is : does it make sense to add "focus play down the right" TI to encourage him to support the right hand side better? Does this instruction encourage the team to actually play on this side more often or just to better support the play when the ball is on this side?

Finally, in several games I noticed a red area in the heatmap where my right full back is located :

I struggle to interpret this, is this a thing I have to be worried about? Does it mean the player lacks of solution or something? (the player has good ratings most of the time)

Thank you in advance

Edited December 26, 2022 by sonnevillejr

[_mxrky]

Put your trequartista in amcr  position with move into channels pi. He’ll be in the right half space all the time then

[sonnevillejr]

I made some changes and put my AMC in the AMCR position to see how it goes.

I'm quite satisfied, and it seems to work, I played 4 games with this tactic, with 2 games against Rennes at home and Monaco away (contenders) and I won 2-0 in both games.

At first I used an inverted winger on support on the LHS but, even with 'stay narrower' and 'roam from position', I found him not narrow enough, so I experimented with an inside forward on support instead because they tend to stay narrower.

Here's a pass map from my game against Monaco, where we can quite clearly see the 343 in possession. I only changed the AML role into an IF at halftime because as I said I was not really satisfied with his position being too wide

[Yisz]

Intresting read!

about the red dot in the heatmap: my interpretation is that that’s where the ball is most of the time. You play a possession type system and focus play down the right hand side. Your players will not take too many risks which makes the ball go through your rcb/right fb a lot. 
 

Guess the red dot should be gone (or at least far less) in your last tweak.

Have you given the LCB stay wider? You can form a more traditional back 3 that way with 2 cb and one fb

[sonnevillejr]

46 minutes ago, Yisz said:

Intresting read!

Thank you!

46 minutes ago, Yisz said:

about the red dot in the heatmap: my interpretation is that that’s where the ball is most of the time. You play a possession type system and focus play down the right hand side. Your players will not take too many risks which makes the ball go through your rcb/right fb a lot

Yes but I had the exact same issue without this instruction... I wonder if it didn't come from the fact that my left back was too high too early, and since the DLP was on support duty he didn't drop enough to fill the gap so the ball could not be switched to this side, because since I use a WBsu, I didn't notice this issue anymore

 

46 minutes ago, Yisz said:

Have you given the LCB stay wider? You can form a more traditional back 3 that way with 2 cb and one fb

No I didn't give him this PI, I could try. I didn't because since there is neither a defend duty ahead of him nor a central DM, I was afraid the right central defender would not be central enough to fill the gap

Edited January 10, 2023 by sonnevillejr

[1twoQ]

If you keep getting the "red dot" around your iwbd (and don't like the way play is progressing in that area) I'd try giving the people around him some more progressive roles or instructions (dribble more, more direct passing, take more risks etc) I'd assume with his defend duty he's always a safe option to recycle possesion to while also not really attempting to progress the ball much leading the play to kind of stick in that area. 

 

I'd imagine adding some combo of the above PIs would lead to the people around him looking to recycle possession a tad less

Edited January 12, 2023 by 1twoQ

[schackss]

Hi, 

I'm a big fan of Losc and the tactics used by Paulo Fonseca. I've been looking for weeks for an fm 23 tactic based on the same game principles and unfortunately I can't find any... Would you be willing to share your tactic? that would be really cool...

[sonnevillejr]

3 hours ago, schackss said:

Hi, 

I'm a big fan of Losc and the tactics used by Paulo Fonseca. I've been looking for weeks for an fm 23 tactic based on the same game principles and unfortunately I can't find any... Would you be willing to share your tactic? that would be really cool...

Hi, 

As a big fan myself, I tried to replicate the tactic many times. Lately, I noticed that I was perhaps wrong in my interpretation of the tactic. I'm playing on another save at the moment so I don't play with Lille anymore (for now). After I saw your post I decided to give it a go so I started a new save to have the real players. I only played a few friendly games so I don't certify this tactic will work.

 

As you can see, I changed the duty of Bafode Diakite : I noticed that IRL, he's kind of fluid, when the ball is in our half, he can form a back three but he doesn't necessarily hold his position. And by changing him to a support duty, I see that kind of movement. This change allows the right Winger to be on attack duty. Even if you play with Edon Zhegrova or Adam Ounas, this is the right role because they'll hold the width like in real life and, since they're both left-footed, they'll still cut inside with the ball regularly.

Personally I like to have at least 3 defend duties including the CBs, so now the 3rd one is Andre Gomes. It will allow him to better cover Ismaily but you can experiment with a support duty if you like.

Since it's not possible to instruct the number 10 to shift only on the right hand side, I shifted him manually. The left winger will occupy the left half-space so you will get some kind of 3421 shape.

Regarding the team instructions, you might consider "drop off more" since Jose Fonte is really slow.

Again, I don't guarantee it will work since I didn't test this tactic during an entire season but I think it looks like this