When to put a 17 y/o in the U18's or the U21's?

[danej]

What would be good rules of thumb when it comes to deciding whether a given 17 year old should be placed in the U18 or U21 squad (England)?

 

My impression is that it is usually a no brainer to keep 15-16 year olds in the U18 squad, bar the rare exception that the player is good enough for the first team squad.

 

Similarly, my impression is that it is a no brainer to put players aged 18 and older in the U21 squad (those who can't get a good loan and who aren't good enough for the first team squad).

 

But I am uncertain when it comes to the U17 year olds. I struggle to find good rules of thumb when it comes to those.

 

Right now it is a little random what I do with them. A lot is up to squad composition. If one squad is full and the other isn't, I put the given player in the smaller squad so to speak.

 

But often at my club, a given 17 y/o player can get decent game time in both the U18 and the U21, usually neither squad is overloaded with players the way I do things.

 

So I don't know.

 

I guess the main argument for keeping a 17 y/o at the U18's is the idea that coaching might be better there, perhaps the coaching staff there is overall better and/or have a better Working with youngsters attribute (this might not be the case, I am just speculating now).

 

On the other hand, I guess the main argument for having a low threshold to move 17 year olds to the U21 squad is that they assumingly get playing time at a higher level, and perhaps there isn't a big difference when it comes to the quality of the coaching staff.

[fc.cadoni]

In U18 IMHO. Usually, I have there good coaching personalities (Model Citizen, Resolute, Perfectionist, Professional); while in senior team prioritize coaching attributes.

[danej]

Thanks for the input. However, my situation is different. I don't hire and fire staff myself. This one of many restrictions I use, primarily to get a tougher challenge, secondarily for realism purposes.

 

So my staff is whatever the Dog decides it to be. Usually the original staff with a few additions, he usually hires a few people during the first season to fill out vacant spots.

 

In any case, perhaps I should look into what you imply. Check the personality and coaching attributes (and WWY) if the U18 and U21 staff.

Edited December 31, 2022 by danej

[jcp1417]

I would honestly go by his performances. If he's the star of all the U18 matches, move him to the U21. If he only gets average ratings in U18 matches, he's probably at the right level

[kayyuenchinup]

I would put them into U18 squad first. If he is fit when the next U21 match, I would put him available to play.  In this case, he can play for both U18 and U21 matches.  

[jcp1417]

2 hours ago, kayyuenchinup said:

I would put them into U18 squad first. If he is fit when the next U21 match, I would put him available to play.  In this case, he can play for both U18 and U21 matches.  

I do not concur with this advice. U18 players benefit more from training. If he’s always tired from matches, he will never train or will train poorly, thus developing poorly 

[davehibb]

On 31/12/2022 at 11:41, fc.cadoni said:

In U18 IMHO. Usually, I have there good coaching personalities (Model Citizen, Resolute, Perfectionist, Professional); while in senior team prioritize coaching attributes.

This is the approach I use. 

The only players I put in the U21 or U23 etc. are guys I think aren't quite going to make it and guys over 18 who I try to loan out to increase their value so I can sell on.

I've really gone down the route of getting good personality coaches for U18s and HOYD and not really taking into account their coaching attributes.

As an aside, am I right in thinking that outfield players don't really develop/gain CA after 23/24 and keepers at around 26?

[fc.cadoni]

17 minutes ago, davehibb said:

This is the approach I use. 

The only players I put in the U21 or U23 etc. are guys I think aren't quite going to make it and guys over 18 who I try to loan out to increase their value so I can sell on.

I've really gone down the route of getting good personality coaches for U18s and HOYD and not really taking into account their coaching attributes.

As an aside, am I right in thinking that outfield players don't really develop/gain CA after 23/24 and keepers at around 26?

In FM23, players reach PA at the age of 26; it has been changed from last year.

[davehibb]

2 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

In FM23, players reach PA at the age of 26; it has been changed from last year.

Ah, brilliant! Thank you!

[danej]

4 hours ago, davehibb said:

This is the approach I use. 

The only players I put in the U21 or U23 etc. are guys I think aren't quite going to make it and guys over 18 who I try to loan out to increase their value so I can sell on.

I've really gone down the route of getting good personality coaches for U18s and HOYD and not really taking into account their coaching attributes.

This makes sense. However, my situation is different. I don't hire my own staff, so my HoYD and U18 don't necearily have good personalities (one of many restrictions I use because I don't like the game to be too easy).

[davehibb]

21 minutes ago, danej said:

This makes sense. However, my situation is different. I don't hire my own staff, so my HoYD and U18 don't necearily have good personalities (one of many restrictions I use because I don't like the game to be too easy).

Is that because you are running a DoF type of save or just to save time? I usually delegate a lot of duties to my DoF and other staff but for youth development I have started making a point of getting a good youth coaching in terms of personality and once it's setup, I just have my Dof renew staff contracts to save on time.

[danej]

18 hours ago, davehibb said:

Is that because you are running a DoF type of save or just to save time? I usually delegate a lot of duties to my DoF and other staff but for youth development I have started making a point of getting a good youth coaching in terms of personality and once it's setup, I just have my Dof renew staff contracts to save on time.

Mostly the former. I play with many restrictions because I get bored if there is too much succes. The restrictions include:

- Delegating everything regarding hiring/firing of staff

- Delegating everything regarding scouting (letting the DoF/HoyD initiate and negotiate potential incoming transfer, I finalise myself which means that I cancel most of the deals since they are rubbish, so I hardly ever buy any players, perhaps 1-2 per year).

- Delegating almost everything regarding training (I never do individual training; I tweak individual training work loads in order to reduce injury risk. On rare occasions I tweak the preset training schedules, in case they are messed up, usually because of fixture congestion or a changed match schedule)

- Only using the template in-game tactics. Usually the 4-3-3 DM wide Gegenpress. Sometimes a long ball tactics. In theory I would probably use a Tiki Taka if I was managing an elite team, but I haven't tried that so far.

- Never asking for facility upgrades, more staff etc. Never asking the board for anything, only approving upgrades which they initiate themselves.