Arbitrary staff CA/PA. And the dreaded 135 lock

[Mitza]

As a FM veteran, one of the things I focus most on is staff development. I know this isn't the average's player cup of tea, but I have very strong feelings about this part of the game.

Every save, I like to scout the retired players for promising staff members and fill up my U19s and Reserves with young staff, and have them take coaching badges until teams poach them as managers, or they rise up the ranks to my first team. Basically what some teams do in real life (See how Barcelona brings staff up from La Masia to U19s, B team, etc). It's actually a very fun experience, to take a retiring mid-table player and see them become a 5 star coach in a few years.

My biggest gripe with this is that unfortunately, the stat system and especially PA for staff is completely arbitrary. What I mean by that, is that, once a player becomes staff, their PA is not based on anything. That means, that so many times in the past, I found a very promising young coach (some attributes over 15, which is very rare), and up to Continental PRO and they stats stay the same. Or finding some very popular players have their staff stats available, seeing some very exciting attributes as managers, but checking their PA it shows that it's actually very low. Which brings me to my next point

The dreaded 135

Since discovering this, I've been forced to use the in-game editor to see what is going on and why these staff members completely stop developing at one point. Every time I see a promising retired player, I  check their CA/PA using the in-game editor, and most of the time I notice the same thing - The 135 PA. It seems that it is hard-coded in that a big chunk of retired players/new staff members get locked at 135 PA for whatever reason, regardless of their current CA. I encourage you to try it yourself if you have the in-game editor and you're 3 years into the save, go to staff search, check 'Potential Ability', try it with 135 PA first and then try 136 and see how many results you get. 

"But promising attributes doesn't mean they should have high PA"

Yes, you could say tha- actually, could you? 

Whilst this may apply to players, which is completely fair, this shouldn't apply to staff, for multiple reasons:

1. You can't scout a staff member and see it's PA stars. It's not the same with players, where the player is crap but your scout tells you he'll be world class. There is completely 0 ways to tell if a staff member could have 200 PA, unless they have very high stats at a very young age.

2. With the current system in place, a staff member could have 2 judging CA/PA and 3 tactical knowledge with an overall of 15 CA, yet their PA could be 200. But an AI club, an IRL club, or yourself, would never sign that staff member because of point 1 and because they would not help the coaching team at all, with much better options available.

3. "But those high PA staff members, even with very low CA, could grow into thier PA and become world class coaches/managers/etc" - unforunately NO, because the game deletes them after a just a few seasons of being unemployed. I attached the relevant post for this discussion as well. 

Should staff CA/PA be completely arbitrary in the first place?

This has been discussed in the past and maybe even changed in FM but it's worth mentioning. Although I am mostly referring to coaches, assistant managers, GK coaches and upcoming managers, the normal managers should be part of the discussion too.

Whilst there are world class managers and coaches who started from nothing (Mourinho), I think we can agree that most top league managers are former players. Even more, in the smaller league (Romania for example) it would be crazy for a club to hire a manager who isn't a former player. Moreso, in recent history, we've seen that former BIG players are even more likely to manage big teams quickly: Xavi, Arteta, Zidane, Pirlo, Xabi Alonso, Ruben Amorim, Henry, Kompany. This would never happen in FM, as the big clubs carousel through the exact same group of managers every couple of years, until all of them retire and they move to pick the highest reputation managers, regardless of stats. Even if it were to happen, it would be impossible, as 99% of the big players that retire in-game have stats good enough for the 5th division. 

 

In conclusion, it's depressing to play the staff game when you have no idea if a coach is going to be locked at 135 PA or not, and any player you have actually heard of before has 1 CA/PA

 

[Dotsworthy]

There are a number of issues with staffing and I think this area of the game is in desperate need of an overhaul. The only sane way to handle staff is to fire all of the dud staff at the start of the game, comb staff search with a external coach calculator handy and then mostly forget it for the rest of the game, which is very time consuming if you have to go from club to club and not realistic in the slightest.

You also get no indication within the game that your staff are improving or getting better or worse unless you stumble on that staff member.

[du Garbandier]

Interesting perspective. I've just been thinking about staff for a new save in this way. Some of the in-place staff, while young, have dreadful stats. I often wonder if it does the players more harm than good to be coached by someone with such poor ratings. I agree that CA/PA stars would be a useful addition.

[paveltopskiy]

The only way to have the best staff (at least when it comes to coaching) is to wait a few years and hire all these HoYD regens with insane CA from the start and PA in the area of 175-200. Almost none of the real life coaches are even comparable to them in the slightest. Its 2027 in my save and on the first of July 20 mexican HoYDs generated, all with 170-185 CA, willing to work as coaches. Its stupid and doesnt let you have real life staff if you want the best coaching staff possible

[Mitza]

Bumping this to check if it was acknowledged by SI

Edited March 2, 2023 by Mitza

[andu1]

This is in the game from at least FM 18.. I remember raising lots of bugs threads in the previous version about how bad the players turned staff are. They've improved a bit in the latest versions but the bad distribution of stats still remain sometimes.

 

For example when a player turns a coach they retain their adaptability and determination attributes. That means you end with coaches with 20 determination and 20 adaptaility and 2 or 3 across the other stats... Totally unbalanced.

[Dotsworthy]

38 minutes ago, Mitza said:

Bumping this to check if it was acknowledged by SI

You will probably need to post it in the bug tracker or feature requests for it to get any traction. Unless this becomes a multi page thread.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Dotsworthy

[Tyburn]

+1