The Days of a Single Tactic Are Over

[bababooey]

Initial Thoughts

What I've found in FM23 is that the days of using a single tactic for *the majority* of your matches are dead and gone. You cannot just roll out the same tactic match after match and expect good results. There are, in my view a few exceptions to this....

1. There are still the "exploit" tactics you'll find on various websites that seem to just throw bodies forward and stress the match engine into oblivion.

2. If you happen to manage the elite of the elite in a given division (City, Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, Liverpool for ex) you can probably get away with one tactic for nearly all matches.

Aside from those exceptions, I believe firmly you have to adapt and change. The AI managers are *so* dramatically improved from what we've seen in previous FM editions. Defending is also *vastly* improved, so combine those two factors, and the game can be much more difficult if you don't adapt.

I'm a control freak. So, as you can guess, the "control possession" style is my favorite way to play. And typically, I would expect that style to work in nearly all matches, except for some of those really tough away matches against elite sides. This is no longer working. And that's probably a good thing.

New Project

The past few days, I've started up a new project with Atletico Madrid. The reason being? I wanted to manage in Spain, and I wanted to see if I could dramatically alter the way that club plays. I find Simeone's tactics to be incredibly boring, so I figured, why not try to bring my own ideas to a squad that is very talented.

This is the main tactic we've been using for the first half of the season. (we're now just past the world cup break).

This is the total opposite of Diego Simeone football. This is like, trying to accomplish a form of "total football" minus the uber high press. A mid block seems to fit this side better, as they lack the required work rate, aggression and stamina in the front 3 players.

After 16 games, we're 10 - 4 - 2, with a goal difference of +21.  We're also 1 point off the top spot in the league, and tied with a few other clubs for second place.

I'm happy with that because the club is in a really bad financial spot, and so I can't do much to the squad right away.

We've also managed to get out of a tricky champions league group, so that's nice too.

BUT, the major caveat here is that this simply will not work long term as the singular approach to the game. If we were Real Madrid or Barcelona it might work long term, but Atletico are not at that level right now.

Recently 1-1 draws at home to Real Sociedad + Betis have shown that we aren't as good as maybe we think we are.

We also drew 0-0 away to Celta Vigo, and Espanyol early on in the season.

Before the world cup break, Barcelona smashed us 4-0 at the Nou Camp.

Clearly, this approach is not going to cut it as the only way to play.

[bababooey]

First Update Time!

We have been using a 4-3-3 modified control possession system for the majority of the season, but we have now incorporated a tweaked version with different role/duty choices. This is a subtle change, but it radically changes how we attack space, and thus, it better suits us in matches where we might not be able to keep camping in the opponents third.

I'm thrilled with how the season has gone. We're top of the league after 23 matches, and we've managed to qualify from a tricky UCL group. We drew Manchester City in the UCL first knockout round,  and smashed them 5-0 in the first match, which was at home.  The second match is a week or so away from now.

Here is the first system, which we like to use at home against weak(er) opponents. The point is to camp and probe looking for quality chances.

 

Now, here is the alternate version, which has changes I will detail below.

So you can see for yourself the changes but...  I wanted to explain my thinking here.

The two tactics you see here are not that different, because they ultimately use the same base shape, mentality, and most of the same team instructions.

But, there are key differences which makes them play differently, and in my opinion, make them suitable for particular situations.

- The first difference is the front 3.  We have modified it so that we're using a F9 flanked by 2 attacking inside forwards. The idea is to draw the opponent into closing down the F9 and leaving space for our wide forwards to attack into diagonally.   I expect this to work more effectively against teams that are willing to play in a positive / more risky manner. This is super important! If teams are sitting deep, and being cautious, I don't expect to see them having trouble marking the F9 in this situation. This is specifically designed to confuse aggressive defenses that look to win the ball back ASAP.

- The second difference is in midfield. We change the MEZ-A to CM-A, and we change the DM-S to DM-D.   The reasoning here is that I dont want to be too predictable, and I love a good runner from deep. The CM-A is such an amazing role / duty combination.  But for it to work, you really do need the right players around them, and the space for them to get into.  I expect this player to link up with, and run past the F9, helping to score goals and create chances. Similar to the previous point, we want to create havoc for teams that aren't afraid of us. You want to press us hard and attack us? Great. Now we're going to give you some real problems. We are attacking the space from multiple directions with multiple players. And, we're doing it with on the ball running and off the ball running. This creates unpredictability, and SHOULD destabilize tough defenses which look to press us hard. The DM was changed to a defend duty because, again, the point here is not to dominate possession up high. I want a player back there who is reliably cautious and won't get forward too much.  Also, if we're using this tactic against teams willing to attack us, we will need extra protection compared to against sides that wont attack us the same way.

- The third difference is we've changed our defenders a bit... Instead of a simple FB-A / FB-S pair of fullbacks, we've gone for 2 wingbacks on support. I want those guys providing width to stretch the pitch horizontally (and to a lesser extent, vertically). The idea is that those guys stay wide, pulling aggressive defenders towards them, and leaving space for us to attack into with our trio of attacking players.

- Team instructions changes.  We've removed "work ball into box" because the point here is not to probe patiently. We've removed "fairly narrow" because we want to utilize more width to create spaces. We've ADDED "focus play through the middle" + both under lapping instructions. The point of this is to ensure our CM-A (and to a lesser extent, the AP-S) get more involved in attacks and draw the attention of opposition defenders. Draw them into the middle, and hit them diagonally. This gives us unpredictability because we also hope to draw the defense wide when the ball is at the feet of our wingbacks, in which case, we can look to pass back into the middle, and attack that  way.

 

League Table after 23 Matches

As you can see, we're doing brilliantly. Especially compared to how Atletico are performing in real life. I'm super proud of our defending, with only 12 goals conceded.

We've created the 3rd most chances in the league, which is something I really wanted to emphasize because in my opinion, this is the most important thing outside of wins. If you don't create chances, what's the point?

Edited January 19, 2023 by bababooey
Reserved post, now with new content.

[bababooey]

Demolishing Man City 5-0

Okay so, the scoreline flattered us a bit because our xG was under 2, but I don't care lol. It's still a great feeling when you beat the hell out of a team that is OP. 

Here's what happened, and this was of course using our "tweaked" system, which I talked about in the post above.

First screenshot is going to show you just how aggressive City are willing to be, in our house. Their entire team minus the keeper is camped in our half. BUT, we are not using a low block! So, it's not like we're just inviting them to do this.

I highlighted the names so you can see everyone and where they're positioned for City. Notice the spaces? Behind Gundogan and Cancelo there are acres of open space, unless Laporte or Dias are able to quickly slide over and cover...

This is also why I've changed the DM-S to DM-D in the previous post. We expect to see teams doing this, so I just wanted a little more stability.

Our defending principles really don't change here. This Atletico team isn't amazing in the air, so we try to close down crosses aggressively. We use a mid block, because it allows us to be really compact and hard to break down. We trap inside, because we want to force the ball into the middle where we have numbers, and some high quality midfielders who aren't afraid to tackle and win the ball. We hold a higher(ish) line and step up more because, again, the idea is compression. I'm not looking to defend passively by sitting deep. That isn't going to work for us because we don't do a good job winning air duels, and quite frankly, I hate playing like that.

 

Okay here is the first goal we scored.

Remember our defensive principles? We trap inside, which means we want the ball to get funneled back into the middle where we can win it back. That's exactly how this starts.

I took the screenshot a few seconds after the turnover, but basically the ball was out wide, they passed it centrally, and De Paul pounced on it to win it back.

Now, notice where our players are...  Who do you think scores the goal?

If you guessed "Lemar" you are correct!

 

De Paul plays the ball to Carrasco, and in the meantime, the City defense is all focused on De Paul (look at the red circle in the middle). 

This leaves Lemar in acres of space to attack the box, and he does exactly that, after a beautiful diagonal by Carrasco.

Also please note, the city players highlighted in red circles on the left side. They're not contributing to the defense here. This is in large part because City isn't looking to sit deep and be cautious. And of course, we did create a turnover, so obviously those guys weren't all sitting back to begin with. But you get my point.

You might be thinking, "why not select counter as a team instruction" ?

Well, they happen naturally, and I don't want to be too rushed in our attack. It's really that simple. We're playing in a mid block, not a low block. We already have players stationed relatively high up the pitch. I feel like selecting counter just isn't really needed. This could change, but right now, it's fine.

 

Our second goal begins like this:

I know this screenshot doesn't look like anything, but it's actually a great representation of how we can drag the opponents around, out wide. This was the moment where Felipe played a gorgeous outlet ball into the right channel for Molina and Lemar to chase down.  But this happened after a period of passing on our LEFT flank. So that's between, Gimenez + Llorente + Garcia + Carrasco.  We kept the ball between those players, on that side, and pulled City wide. They couldn't win the ball back easily.  So, the ball eventually switches sides (partially) to Felipe, who then completes the switch of play to that right flank.

The goal was pretty simple in the final stage.  Remember the goal of attacking the box from multiple angles? When Molina plays the cross into the box (from the byline) we had multiple players parked right in their penalty spot / far post. This was the CM-A, the IF-A (on that side) and our F9.  That's EXACTLY what we want to see!  Get into the box when needed and bang it home.

The three remaining goals were scored from the aftermath of set plays, where the defense was disorganized, and honestly this isn't worth posting about, so I won't include them. It could easily have been against us.

The match stats aren't anything crazy. City are a better team than we are. I expected them to have more of the ball, and they did (although not a ton more). Look at our headers! What a mess. 47% headers won is DREADFUL, but we won the game. We also didn't cross the ball much at all, and with little success (although that 1 completed cross did give us a goal).

I was quite happy to let City pass the ball between their defenders, which they did a fair amount of.

You can see it here. City's passes were almost exclusively limited to those between their center backs, the left full back, and their DM. You could also include Gundogan, who is their #8 who played quite deep at times. I think he has a PPM for that, IIRC.

The difference here is stark in terms of our passing options. We were able to complete a lot of passes between our forward group and midfield. That's what we want to see. It means we're using the ball well.

Carrasco had 91 combinations, Lemar had 75 combinations, and Koke has 113 combinations. That's brilliant.  Joao Felix had 27, which isn't great but his role was effective here. He was basically a decoy. He wasn't the focal point of our attack, and so I think this is fine. De Paul (number 21) had 48 combinations, which isn't amazing, but keep in mind his role, CM-A. He's going to be getting forward and playing in dangerous areas. It would be wonderful if he had a lot of pass combinations, but against an aggressive defense, it's not surprising that he wasn't as involved as, say, Koke or Llorente who aren't busting a gut forward.

Edited January 19, 2023 by bababooey

[Manden]

Looking forward to reading the rest of this (only first post visible right now). 

I have been trying a mid-block/high DL possession tactic with Deportivo in Spain, but never really got it to work consistently, even though we have managed back to back promotions. 

 

I had an AF as the striker, otherwise quite close to what you are playing. The thinking behind this was to be able to hit the opponent on the counter if they committed too much to beat our low mid block. 

 

[crusadertsar]

I dont agree with this statement, at all actually.

No you can still do very well by using the same tactic. But then definition of what you mean by single tactic is kind of loose. I still use the same shape or formation throughout the season and do rather well. As my last season with Braga (not elite club) showed. I ended up finishing 3rd without much trouble while running the 4-2-2-2 (not a plug and win "exploit" tactic). But you have to be ready to make minute adjustments to the tactic depending on the opposition or whether it's domestic or continental competition. Sometimes during the match. Little things like roles or duties or defensive line height, ect. To be pedantic you could say it is changing from one tactic to another tactic when you do that. But not really it's still the same shape and similar instructions.

So no, you definitely don't need to train completely different tactical shapes to be successful on FM23. If anything it's not good for speed with which your players will get fluent with any one tactic. I rather have my players very comfortable with one tactic by September than struggling with three different shapes in November. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by crusadertsar

[ta11zx]

8 hours ago, bababooey said:

Simeone's tactics to be incredibly boring

Stopped reading after this blasphemy 

[bababooey]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I dont agree with this statement, at all actually.

No you can still do very well by using the same tactic. But then definition of what you mean by single tactic is kind of loose. I still use the same shape or formation throughout the season and do rather well. As my last season with Braga (not elite club) showed. I ended up finishing 3rd without much trouble while running the 4-2-2-2 (not a plug and win "exploit" tactic). But you have to be ready to make minute adjustments to the tactic depending on the opposition or whether it's domestic or continental competition. Sometimes during the match. Little things like roles or duties or defensive line height, ect. To be pedantic you could say it is changing from one tactic to another tactic when you do that. But not really it's still the same shape and similar instructions.

So no, you definitely don't need to train completely different tactical shapes to be successful on FM23. If anything it's not good for speed with which your players will get fluent with any one tactic. I rather have my players very comfortable with one tactic by September than struggling with three different shapes in November. 

 

I think you've made some excellent points here.

Maybe it is a matter of semantics, whether we're talking about "multiple tactics" vs. "making changes in game."

I think you articulated what I was trying to say in a much more coherent way, actually.

[crusadertsar]

26 minutes ago, bababooey said:

 

I think you've made some excellent points here.

Maybe it is a matter of semantics, whether we're talking about "multiple tactics" vs. "making changes in game."

I think you articulated what I was trying to say in a much more coherent way, actually.

Yeah I think it is a question of semantics. I think we can both agree that you can't be successful if you just always use the same tactic, instructions and roles without taking the opposition into account at all. The game has evolved too much and became much more dynamic since the days of FM14 when that might have still been possible. If it was even. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Bitner]

About the title: Even with man utd i've been switching from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1. It's true the AI Managers are way better this time around.

Cheers,
Bitner 

[bababooey]

28 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Yeah I think it is a question of semantics. I think we can both agree that you can't be successful if you just always use the same tactic, instructions and roles without taking the opposition into account at all. The game has evolved too much and became much more dynamic since the days of FM14 when that might have still been possible. If it was even. 

Without a doubt. Unless you have an exploit tactic, of course, but I would guess most people posting in this forum aren't using them anyway.

FWIW, this is definitely a positive thing, having to make changes and tweaks. It's so much more realistic, and it creates an element of a "game within the game."

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, ta11zx said:

Stopped reading after this blasphemy 

The great man

[phnompenhandy]

6 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Yeah I think it is a question of semantics. I think we can both agree that you can't be successful if you just always use the same tactic, instructions and roles without taking the opposition into account at all. The game has evolved too much and became much more dynamic since the days of FM14 when that might have still been possible. If it was even. 

I'm trying to establish my "Manager DNA". It was a club DNA in my last save, but now I'm starting a Journeyman career where I take 'my' DNA with me. What I mean by DNA is a specific way of playing - a formation and general style. But within that I will adjust individual roles, duties and team instructions depending on match circumstances. I think this accords with what you are both kind of saying.

But the interesting thing about this OP and thread is the idea of taking a long-established famous manager/club DNA and see if you can maintain success by completely changing it, using the same players. As with Potter at Chelsea, it oughtn't bring instant success really (although that's the other way around - a manager trying to replicate his DNA in a club unused to it - maybe Sean Dyche at Man City would be more fun).

[bababooey]

7 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I'm trying to establish my "Manager DNA". It was a club DNA in my last save, but now I'm starting a Journeyman career where I take 'my' DNA with me. What I mean by DNA is a specific way of playing - a formation and general style. But within that I will adjust individual roles, duties and team instructions depending on match circumstances. I think this accords with what you are both kind of saying.

But the interesting thing about this OP and thread is the idea of taking a long-established famous manager/club DNA and see if you can maintain success by completely changing it, using the same players. As with Potter at Chelsea, it oughtn't bring instant success really (although that's the other way around - a manager trying to replicate his DNA in a club unused to it - maybe Sean Dyche at Man City would be more fun).

I love possession football, and so far at Atletico, we're top of the league through 22 games. In real life, Atletico are having a rough year, although they are in 4th place which isn't horrendous.

[bababooey]

Please check out the updated reserved posts beneath the original, thanks!

[Tyburn]

Changing things up based on opponent/form/player availability/morale etc is very much a thing this year. I skipped 22 so couldn’t comment, but even from 21 the AI is waaaayy better at working you out.

I currently have 4 “styles”. All 433. One counter low block attacking, one high block high intensity attacking, one mid block balanced and one total shut out tactic. Different roles in each “style” that are all suited to my players. So far seems to be good. Changing “styles” throughout a match is nice and seamless as I have used different “tactics” to replicate instructions I would be using in certain match circumstances. I find this works better for me than trying to adjust everything on the fly.

Main trouble I have is knowing which “tactic” to start with, if all options are available.  Makes me have to ‘manage’.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Tyburn

[bababooey]

36 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Changing things up based on opponent/form/player availability/morale etc is very much a thing this year. I skipped 22 so couldn’t comment, but even from 21 the AI is waaaayy better at working you out.

I currently have 4 “styles”. All 433. One counter low block attacking, one high block high intensity attacking, one mid block balanced and one total shut out tactic. Different roles in each “style” that are all suited to my players. So far seems to be good. Changing “styles” throughout a match is nice and seamless as I have used different “tactics” to replicate instructions I would be using in certain match circumstances. I find this works better for me than trying to adjust everything on the fly.

Main trouble I have is knowing which “tactic” to start with, if all options are available.  Makes me have to ‘manage’.

I think it depends heavily on what team you are. If you're Barcelona, you can probably do whatever you want with minimal changes. You know what I mean? Otherwise, a helpful thing is to check the odds before the match. If your team isn't a heavy favorite, maybe be more cautious. You can also check the team comparison in the scouting report. It might be the case that the other team excels in an area that could cause you problems, even if your team is better overall.

So it depends!

[Tyburn]

16 minutes ago, bababooey said:

I think it depends heavily on what team you are. If you're Barcelona, you can probably do whatever you want with minimal changes. You know what I mean? Otherwise, a helpful thing is to check the odds before the match. If your team isn't a heavy favorite, maybe be more cautious. You can also check the team comparison in the scouting report. It might be the case that the other team excels in an area that could cause you problems, even if your team is better overall.

So it depends!

Yes. Definitely. To HAVE to pay attention is so much more immersive than past versions of the game.

My issue is generally thinking we are better than we are. I’m 3 seasons into a save with Leicester and have now assembled a squad full of young talent. I’m talking Fati, Carmavinga and Gvardiol level talent (I’m now in debt but there you go). My issues are judging my perceived level to my actual level. And it’s been fantastic fun. Especially as I have promises hanging over me and that is requiring a lot of “managing”. But as someone said before, to actually feel like you have to “manage” games now as well as the squad is just perfect! In FM21 I could roll out one tactic, one system, all season - every season. Not now. And it’s great.

[bababooey]

59 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Yes. Definitely. To HAVE to pay attention is so much more immersive than past versions of the game.

My issue is generally thinking we are better than we are. I’m 3 seasons into a save with Leicester and have now assembled a squad full of young talent. I’m talking Fati, Carmavinga and Gvardiol level talent (I’m now in debt but there you go). My issues are judging my perceived level to my actual level. And it’s been fantastic fun. Especially as I have promises hanging over me and that is requiring a lot of “managing”. But as someone said before, to actually feel like you have to “manage” games now as well as the squad is just perfect! In FM21 I could roll out one tactic, one system, all season - every season. Not now. And it’s great.

You just about nailed it. Gvardiol, Fati + Camavinga are phenomenal players. But City, Liverpool and United won't fear you with that

[bababooey]

Holy crap. Sampaoli's Sevilla gave us ONE HELL OF A MATCH!

I knew an away trip to Sevilla would be tough, but I didn't think it would be such a frantic experience.

They play that weird 3-4(dm)-3 shape and basically just pound the flanks in the hopes of breaking your lines. They also press like gangbusters. Real pain in the butt to deal with.

We tied 2-2, after both teams scored lucky goals in the 2nd half.

I probably over-managed this one, making too many adjustments. So now it's time to study what happened, and see how we can better deal with this type of match in the future....

 

[bababooey]

Here is Sevilla forcing a turnover deep in our half. Luckily they didn't score here.

Notice their positions on the pitch, and remember they start out in a 3-4(dm)-3 which looks very, very defensive on paper. But they're at home, and they're in decent form, and they have a super aggressive manager.

Rakitic is a roaming playmaker or Regista, I dont remember which, and look at how far wide he is! He's basically like another wingback behind Acuna.

Tecatito + Januzaj + En-Nesyri are all quite narrow and far forward. Navas gives width on the far right side, and Fernando is keeping up with play from deep in the middle. Their back 3 is pretty conservative, except Marcao is playing a bit higher than I'd have figured.

This next play led to what was, in my opinion, a high quality chance for the opposition...

See where Carrasco is? Well, he's closing down the back line, and unfortunately that gives them a chance to break our mid block, and go around the outside (notice the black lines showing where we want to be compact and tight)

What ends up happening is, Rekik plays a diagonal to Navas, who makes a straight line dribble all the way to the byline, cuts it back into the box, and their striker fires a shot that is saved by Oblak. It was a high quality chance for sure.

They were able to do this because they effectively bypassed our mid block, and didn't try to play through the middle. They went about as direct as you can go with 2 passes.

Ideally, I could have had Carrasco man mark Navas, and try to snuff out any opportunities. But, I wasn't sure if I wanted to do that at the time, and this was our first time facing this side away from home.

Also note their front 3 occupying my defensive line AND my DM (Llorente).  My thought is that if we can remain compact and push up a bit, we can force them to the boundaries and render them ineffective. That didn't work exactly lol.

Next thing I want to show you:

This is us in the build up phase. The blue lines show where the ball is going, but important to note, the pass from De Paul up to our forward is kind of like a lofted long ball, which we chase down by the byline, but ultimately this didn't result in a great chance created. Our forward played a cut back pass into the middle for Morata, but the problem is that Sevilla's defense was already back in position, and forced Morata's shot to go well wide.

The issue here, I think, is that we went wide when it would have been better to go centrally. Notice the black outlined square of space...

Part of the reason why I wanted to go wide was because I felt like it would be easier, but I was totally wrong about that.

Also, notice how I've circled the defenders for Sevilla close to where the ball is played into. They're actually in a good position because when the ball comes over the top, they're already in position to close it down or get near their box / goal.

If we had focused our build up centrally, it's possible that we could have turned it over (because this match engine seems to be a complete disaster in the middle of the pitch with constant turnovers and OP pressing), but it's also possible it could have worked out much better for us.

 

[bababooey]

Use The Pre Match Scouting Reports To Your Advantage!!!!!

Athletic Bilbao are a pesky opponent who play positive football. To beat them on the road, we need to make adjustments. We aren't good enough to simply walk over them without considering their strengths + weaknesses.

Look at the scouting report. I can't access the full thing because the match has been played, but I can still see this part of it in my inbox.

Notice the roles.  You don't get duty information, but you can kinda tell who is attacking and who is definitely not attacking.

Capa, the right back is absolutely critical to their attack. He's a wing back, while the other wide defender is an inverted wing back. They also use two false wingers out wide in the forward positions. So who is really stretching play for them horizontally? Only Capa.   Also, their central midfielders don't look like they're going to provide much of a goal threat to us.  Lovely.

The plan is to use OI's combined with specific PI's to shut down their main threat(s).  We will tight mark, tackle harder, close down more, and show onto opposite foot for Capa.  Then, I'll give PI's to my left forward to specifically mark Capa, AND tight mark him.  Then, we'll set OI's for mark tighter on both of Athletic Bilbao's wide forwards.  No PI's given to my wide defenders in this case.  Not necessary, imho.

So we target Capa specifically. I believe if we shut him down, the whole system falls apart for them.

Well, it did.

0 shots on target, a 0.07 xG, 52% poss, and a 6.72 average rating for their team.

Capa was subbed off in the 67th minute with zero crosses completed, zero key passes, and a few tackles.

We trounced them 2-0 with an xG of 3.33, creating a lot of opportunities via our pressing and defensive gameplan.

[ejleal]

On 19/01/2023 at 02:25, crusadertsar said:

Yeah I think it is a question of semantics. I think we can both agree that you can't be successful if you just always use the same tactic, instructions and roles without taking the opposition into account at all. The game has evolved too much and became much more dynamic since the days of FM14 when that might have still been possible. If it was even. 

In my experience, this is not true. While clearly the game is more difficult, it is still possible to play the same tactic, instrutions and roles without any changes.

I won the double with atalanta and reach europa league final in the second season without changing anything in my tactic. What i do though ( and i think this is somewhat underrated) is to influence the game as much as i can with player substitutions and sometimes shouts. i've turned around games replacing players by others which had great impact in game. For example, there was one game we were playing away for serie A and i was losing 1-0 and not playing much. in the 80th minute or so, I replaced all the front 3 players (they were either underperforming or tired) and we won 3-1.

And my tactic isn't an "exploit". Its relatively simple.

 

[sthptngomad76]

9 hours ago, ejleal said:

In my experience, this is not true. While clearly the game is more difficult, it is still possible to play the same tactic, instrutions and roles without any changes.

I won the double with atalanta and reach europa league final in the second season without changing anything in my tactic. What i do though ( and i think this is somewhat underrated) is to influence the game as much as i can with player substitutions and sometimes shouts. i've turned around games replacing players by others which had great impact in game. For example, there was one game we were playing away for serie A and i was losing 1-0 and not playing much. in the 80th minute or so, I replaced all the front 3 players (they were either underperforming or tired) and we won 3-1.

And my tactic isn't an "exploit". Its relatively simple.

 

Agreed. The difference between "exploit" and "legitimate tactic that overachieves in the match engine for a variety of factors that haven't completely been balanced by SI" is murky

[bababooey]

18 hours ago, ejleal said:

In my experience, this is not true. While clearly the game is more difficult, it is still possible to play the same tactic, instrutions and roles without any changes.

I won the double with atalanta and reach europa league final in the second season without changing anything in my tactic. What i do though ( and i think this is somewhat underrated) is to influence the game as much as i can with player substitutions and sometimes shouts. i've turned around games replacing players by others which had great impact in game. For example, there was one game we were playing away for serie A and i was losing 1-0 and not playing much. in the 80th minute or so, I replaced all the front 3 players (they were either underperforming or tired) and we won 3-1.

And my tactic isn't an "exploit". Its relatively simple.

 

I think you've worked wonders with that set up, honestly. I would just point out it's a little surprising to those results from AC Milan, Inter, and especially Napoli (assuming they're 6th, covered by your tooltip popup).

But bully for you taking full advantage of a Serie A that didn't have a runaway team. That is a brilliant season, for sure.

[ejleal]

On 21/01/2023 at 16:52, bababooey said:

But bully for you taking full advantage of a Serie A that didn't have a runaway team. That is a brilliant season, for sure.

Looks like we have one this season .

 

[CBP87]

On 19/01/2023 at 20:48, bababooey said:

Use The Pre Match Scouting Reports To Your Advantage!!!!!

Athletic Bilbao are a pesky opponent who play positive football. To beat them on the road, we need to make adjustments. We aren't good enough to simply walk over them without considering their strengths + weaknesses.

Look at the scouting report. I can't access the full thing because the match has been played, but I can still see this part of it in my inbox.

Notice the roles.  You don't get duty information, but you can kinda tell who is attacking and who is definitely not attacking.

Capa, the right back is absolutely critical to their attack. He's a wing back, while the other wide defender is an inverted wing back. They also use two false wingers out wide in the forward positions. So who is really stretching play for them horizontally? Only Capa.   Also, their central midfielders don't look like they're going to provide much of a goal threat to us.  Lovely.

The plan is to use OI's combined with specific PI's to shut down their main threat(s).  We will tight mark, tackle harder, close down more, and show onto opposite foot for Capa.  Then, I'll give PI's to my left forward to specifically mark Capa, AND tight mark him.  Then, we'll set OI's for mark tighter on both of Athletic Bilbao's wide forwards.  No PI's given to my wide defenders in this case.  Not necessary, imho.

So we target Capa specifically. I believe if we shut him down, the whole system falls apart for them.

Well, it did.

0 shots on target, a 0.07 xG, 52% poss, and a 6.72 average rating for their team.

Capa was subbed off in the 67th minute with zero crosses completed, zero key passes, and a few tackles.

We trounced them 2-0 with an xG of 3.33, creating a lot of opportunities via our pressing and defensive gameplan.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you determine that Capa was the key man to apply OIs to?

[bababooey]

16 hours ago, CBP87 said:

If you don't mind me asking, how did you determine that Capa was the key man to apply OIs to?

Sure thing. 

Basically, I looked at their set up, and then looked at their stats. Capa was clearly a key player for them because he had a good number of assists / a pretty damn high crossing completion rate.

That's really all there is to it.

[Overmars]

On 21/01/2023 at 03:09, sthptngomad76 said:

Agreed. The difference between "exploit" and "legitimate tactic that overachieves in the match engine for a variety of factors that haven't completely been balanced by SI" is murky

Also, there is no clear idea of the "best" approach against certain teams and formations. If you ask this forum for a good underdog tactic against Man City, you will see a variety of suggestions and general lack of consensus. I'm not convinced that choosing between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1 or trapping inside vs. outside or playing a WB(s) vs. FB(s) is how an inferior team can get one over on a better team.

Similarly, I think most of the problems posted in this tactic forum are primarily issues with handling finances, managing morale, and picking good transfers rather than any sort of tactical failure.