BHAFC + RDZ + FM23 = We'll see...

[CaptCanuck]

Please do humour me as I jump into FM23 after having a looong ~30yr save on FM21. In that time Brighton have found themselves with a new manager, who post World Cup break really has invigorated the club with [Italian stereotypes] and done a great job pushing on from what Potter established. So new FM bought at Xmas, new year, new manager, let's have a go at creating a tactic.

Interestingly pretty much all of Brighton’s goals come off the counter, from gaining possession in midfield, or from Merseyside. The starting from their own penalty area, 20+ passes, with a final through ball for that perfect Roberto De Zerbi goal are actually very rare.

So to really start getting in the goals, we’ll need to figure out how to set up out of possession, but first we’re going to start with the more fun part and see how we can get RDZ’s playing out from the back, leading to attack, going.

Early days, but at least this single cherry-picked example against a promoted side (never mind that) came off like a charm:

Brighton have some interesting pieces in Sanchez, Dunk, Webster, and Colwill at the back, Estupinan and Mitoma on the left, Caicedo and Alexis in the middle, March on the right, and Gross everywhere else, that help make it all click. What Ferguson has shown early on in his build up play has been very promising. Add in Enciso, Sarmiento’s flair, with Welbz and Llallana’s veteran guile and it’s a great time to watch them play.

In FM some of those players don’t quite make the grade, while Lamptey and Gilmour do, so the tactic won’t necessarily look to those IRL players - such as the dynamic Mitoma/Pervis partnership - but sure will try with the style of play overall.

Settled Ideas

How heavily to lean on the TIs vs PIs vs roles is always a fun one and while we’ve run the gamut, a few things remain constant to this point, until these more confirmed ideas are usurped by some good suggestions:

Roles & PIs

• Back 4 with less risky passes and 2 CDs. Being CDs instead of BPDs doesn’t mean Dunk and Webster forget how to pass, it just means they’ll use their decent on the ball skills to recycle and won’t do the 40yd crossfield balls, which will occasionally come off, but which we’d rather the MFs do.

• RPM double-pivot. SI’s description of RPMs is absolutely what Caicedo and Alexis are IRL and to a lesser extent what Gilmour is in FM. Instead of using DMs or CMs and adding all the extra instructions to make them such, just pick them. This also helps focus play through the middle without needing the TI and the way RPMs move they naturally stay near each other at times, totally mimics how Brighton’s pair act IRL.

• More direct passing for the RPMs and AMC and the supporting winger. The faster passing transitions have to come from somewhere and along the ground the FBs should be bombing forward to join in.

Formation & TIs

• 4231, with either DMs or MCs and wide players at the AM or M level.

• Mentality: Positive. This is needed to offset the tempo and short passing. Have tried attacking and balanced, but so far sticking to positive.

• Out of possession: uncreatively going with Higher DL, High Press, and More Often. Definitely need to have a proper think here at some point.

• In transition: Roll it out, Distribute to CBs, Counter, Counter-press. This starts us off from the keeper as we want and the counters giving us that little kick up the backside to get moving when possession changes.

• In possession: Fairly narrow width, Play out of defence, ‘shorter’ passing, and ‘lower’ tempo, whether that be ‘much’ or ‘slightly’.

More Waffle

When it comes to the stuff we chop and change, a lot of it really is small, but these are the things I keep messing with:

Roles & PIs

• Largely sticking with at least 1 FB and oftentimes 2, as this tactic can lead us exposed at the back if 8 players are going forward. Typically we want DCL getting outside of the AML and pinging in crosses. For the DCR we want him to sit inside and when he has the ball do whatever. This mirrors the way Gross and Veltman play the position and even Lamps will start in before going outside to take players on.

• AML is the attacking one and AMR is the ‘supporting’ one, but ofc that supporting AMR still has an attacking mentality and will head inside and score, but in build up we want them staying wide and finding cross field passes to play, as much as receiving through balls.

• AMC to this point has been a pretty bog standard AM. There’s enough things going on around them, they can just be and contribute both in the passing and scoring. Especially with Mac and Kozlowski filling that role.

• STC is the great conundrum so far. Someone that drops to link up play and can also lead the press would match with IRL. So a PF (su) or DLF (a) or CF (a/su) would seem to suit. It feels like much of muchness at this point.

TIs

• A heavily TI’d tactic starts with Overlap left, Underlap right, Play through the Middle, added on top of the defaults. With 2 RPMs the middle one seems redundant and the overlap/underlap seems to blow hot and cold. We have the roles/PIs largely set up to work with them, so it begs the question can we get there without them.

• For final 3rd we’ve been leaving it blank. Reckon we need to run some with various ones turned on through the 3 game stretches I am repeatedly playing to test things out.

 

Example Tactics

Simpler tactic, with RPMs at the DM level:

Busier tactic, more aggressive one with a lot of stuff turned on in possession:

Anyways it's almost time to watch Palace/ManU, as I realise I didn't add the PIs for these tactics yet but hopefully you can discern them from my gibberish above. Happy to hear any feedback suggestions and I definitely update with some examples of where it's falling over and some stats after the match :-)

Edited January 19, 2023 by CaptCanuck

[The3points]

How's the defence with a double RPM midfield?

[CaptCanuck]

6 hours ago, The3points said:

How's the defence with a double RPM midfield?

At the DM level I don't see any issues, at the CM level the problem is they just drag the back 4 further up the pitch, leaving more room behind for through balls.

We're 13 matches into the 2nd season and have scored 28 and conceded 12 - overperforming according to the xG table. We have 747 final 3rd passes for and 648 against, so we're winning that battle by a bit. We have the same number of shots for as against and that follows a pretty typical pattern of the top 6 teams we've played outshooting us by a big margin and us outshooting the rest.

The main issues defensively are when we turn it over and the RCL is caught up the pitch, they get good chances off the break. In the last 30 matches the opposition AML is scoring as regularly against us as the ST. And playing out of the back all the time can lead to the occasional silly goal, but that's to be expected. Having Dunk/Webster with low accel/agility doesn't help either. This is a fairly typical example:

 

[icidamien]

Hello,

Very interesting post, I really like your approach and description.

I hope you will  post some update in the future

[Cloud9]

On 18/01/2023 at 11:46, CaptCanuck said:

Please do humour me as I jump into FM23 after having a looong ~30yr save on FM21. In that time Brighton have found themselves with a new manager, who post World Cup break really has invigorated the club with [Italian stereotypes] and done a great job pushing on from what Potter established. So new FM bought at Xmas, new year, new manager, let's have a go at creating a tactic.

Interestingly pretty much all of Brighton’s goals come off the counter, from gaining possession in midfield, or from Merseyside. The starting from their own penalty area, 20+ passes, with a final through ball for that perfect Roberto De Zerbi goal are actually very rare.

So to really start getting in the goals, we’ll need to figure out how to set up out of possession, but first we’re going to start with the more fun part and see how we can get RDZ’s playing out from the back, leading to attack, going.

Early days, but at least this single cherry-picked example against a promoted side (never mind that) came off like a charm:

Brighton have some interesting pieces in Sanchez, Dunk, Webster, and Colwill at the back, Estupinan and Mitoma on the left, Caicedo and Alexis in the middle, March on the right, and Gross everywhere else, that help make it all click. What Ferguson has shown early on in his build up play has been very promising. Add in Enciso, Sarmiento’s flair, with Welbz and Llallana’s veteran guile and it’s a great time to watch them play.

In FM some of those players don’t quite make the grade, while Lamptey and Gilmour do, so the tactic won’t necessarily look to those IRL players - such as the dynamic Mitoma/Pervis partnership - but sure will try with the style of play overall.

Settled Ideas

How heavily to lean on the TIs vs PIs vs roles is always a fun one and while we’ve run the gamut, a few things remain constant to this point, until these more confirmed ideas are usurped by some good suggestions:

Roles & PIs

• Back 4 with less risky passes and 2 CDs. Being CDs instead of BPDs doesn’t mean Dunk and Webster forget how to pass, it just means they’ll use their decent on the ball skills to recycle and won’t do the 40yd crossfield balls, which will occasionally come off, but which we’d rather the MFs do.

• RPM double-pivot. SI’s description of RPMs is absolutely what Caicedo and Alexis are IRL and to a lesser extent what Gilmour is in FM. Instead of using DMs or CMs and adding all the extra instructions to make them such, just pick them. This also helps focus play through the middle without needing the TI and the way RPMs move they naturally stay near each other at times, totally mimics how Brighton’s pair act IRL.

• More direct passing for the RPMs and AMC and the supporting winger. The faster passing transitions have to come from somewhere and along the ground the FBs should be bombing forward to join in.

Formation & TIs

• 4231, with either DMs or MCs and wide players at the AM or M level.

• Mentality: Positive. This is needed to offset the tempo and short passing. Have tried attacking and balanced, but so far sticking to positive.

• Out of possession: uncreatively going with Higher DL, High Press, and More Often. Definitely need to have a proper think here at some point.

• In transition: Roll it out, Distribute to CBs, Counter, Counter-press. This starts us off from the keeper as we want and the counters giving us that little kick up the backside to get moving when possession changes.

• In possession: Fairly narrow width, Play out of defence, ‘shorter’ passing, and ‘lower’ tempo, whether that be ‘much’ or ‘slightly’.

More Waffle

When it comes to the stuff we chop and change, a lot of it really is small, but these are the things I keep messing with:

Roles & PIs

• Largely sticking with at least 1 FB and oftentimes 2, as this tactic can lead us exposed at the back if 8 players are going forward. Typically we want DCL getting outside of the AML and pinging in crosses. For the DCR we want him to sit inside and when he has the ball do whatever. This mirrors the way Gross and Veltman play the position and even Lamps will start in before going outside to take players on.

• AML is the attacking one and AMR is the ‘supporting’ one, but ofc that supporting AMR still has an attacking mentality and will head inside and score, but in build up we want them staying wide and finding cross field passes to play, as much as receiving through balls.

• AMC to this point has been a pretty bog standard AM. There’s enough things going on around them, they can just be and contribute both in the passing and scoring. Especially with Mac and Kozlowski filling that role.

• STC is the great conundrum so far. Someone that drops to link up play and can also lead the press would match with IRL. So a PF (su) or DLF (a) or CF (a/su) would seem to suit. It feels like much of muchness at this point.

TIs

• A heavily TI’d tactic starts with Overlap left, Underlap right, Play through the Middle, added on top of the defaults. With 2 RPMs the middle one seems redundant and the overlap/underlap seems to blow hot and cold. We have the roles/PIs largely set up to work with them, so it begs the question can we get there without them.

• For final 3rd we’ve been leaving it blank. Reckon we need to run some with various ones turned on through the 3 game stretches I am repeatedly playing to test things out.

 

Example Tactics

Simpler tactic, with RPMs at the DM level:

Busier tactic, more aggressive one with a lot of stuff turned on in possession:

Anyways it's almost time to watch Palace/ManU, as I realise I didn't add the PIs for these tactics yet but hopefully you can discern them from my gibberish above. Happy to hear any feedback suggestions and I definitely update with some examples of where it's falling over and some stats after the match :-)

Have you considered inverting a wingback? 

[CaptCanuck]

On 27/01/2023 at 01:13, Cloud9 said:

Have you considered inverting a wingback? 

Good question! I was worried they would get a bit too much inside, so I have the FB on 'sit inside' in possession, but didn't assign in or out when they have the ball.

I reckon I am trying to get too close to IRL RDZ at Brighton and will need to make some compromises for FM, as overlapping left (whether with TIs or 'naturally' with roles and PIs) and underlapping right (again whether TIs or roles) is definitely how they play in possession.

I'll give the IWB a shot and see what happens!