Broken Tactic??

[psucolonel]

Forgive me for this seemingly novice question (well I am one) but when people refer to a tactic as being "broken", what exactly does this mean?  Does it mean it is taking the AI to task unfairly?  

[phnompenhandy]

If I see that phrase or sentiment in a post, I simply stop reading.

[coach vahid]

Maybe i can't say that i was not influenced for win in this game. But with more hours, played this game, i prefered when it's logical.

[psucolonel]

What does it mean?

[herne79]

3 hours ago, psucolonel said:

Forgive me for this seemingly novice question (well I am one) but when people refer to a tactic as being "broken", what exactly does this mean?  Does it mean it is taking the AI to task unfairly?  

It could mean that yes.  It’s possible to create tactics which can exploit certain weaknesses in the AI and/or Match Engine.  However these don’t always last for long as SI can plug such holes.

On the other hand a broken tactic could also mean someone is simply struggling to get results and looking for help.

[psucolonel]

Ok, I only ask because when I see YouTube videos of tactics, some are billed as “broken” or “invincible”,  why do they have these designations?  Are they cheats?  Are using these sort of destroying the spirit of the game?  I’m looking for an authentic and realistic experience, only I am not good with tactics as I have a lot to learn about football.

[psucolonel]

3 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

If I see that phrase or sentiment in a post, I simply stop reading.

That’s not very helpful

[phnompenhandy]

20 minutes ago, psucolonel said:

That’s not very helpful

It is if you think about it. In my opinion, anyone using that phrase either doesn't understand the game and isn't worth the distraction, or is thinking in terms of exploiting the match engine rather than thinking in terms of realistic football tactics.

Edited January 25, 2023 by phnompenhandy

[coach vahid]

The player used a tactic, and his team win everything with. All competitions ect...

But it don't mean that in YOUR save, you will win everything with this tactic.

Because it depends a lot of things. You don't play with the same club, the same players. And maybe you don't play the same way.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, psucolonel said:

Ok, I only ask because when I see YouTube videos of tactics, some are billed as “broken” or “invincible”,  why do they have these designations?  Are they cheats?  Are using these sort of destroying the spirit of the game?  I’m looking for an authentic and realistic experience, only I am not good with tactics as I have a lot to learn about football.

Sound bites to attract clicks.

In a nutshell there are different ways to play the game.  Some people just want to “win” and they’ll employ any means to do so, even using “broken” tactics which might exploit certain weaknesses in the game.  Nothing wrong with that at all, that’s how some find enjoyment and good luck to them.

Others find enjoyment by being truer to perhaps the “spirit” of the game if I can term it like that - trying to play the game in a more realistic manner that might better reflect how real life football might play out.  So instead of trying to exploit the game, they’ll try to find ways to exploit the opposition team, much like a real life coach might perhaps do.

Success can be achieved by either means although I’d suggest the former is perhaps easier than the latter.  Really it’s all about how each person finds enjoyment which is a personal choice, thus no way is “better” than the other.

However, as you are looking for a more authentic experience then avoiding exploitative strategies is probably what you are looking for.  I’d suggest one of two ways to get started with tactics:

1) Keep it simple.  Start with a basic formation, zero team or player instructions and just pick some roles that you think sound good from the in game descriptions and which might perhaps suit your players once you’ve studied them a little.  Watch a couple of matches and see how your players move.  Change some roles and see what differences you notice after a couple more games.  If it helps, watch in 2D rather than 3D or adjust cameras angles in match.  

Note - using player instructions in this scenario are only really to help you achieve a certain style of play (such as possession football or counter attacking football) and/or to address certain issues which might crop up in game.  These strategies can start to get a little more advanced so for now I’d recommend steering clear until you feel you have a decent grasp on what the player roles do.  There are plenty of tactical guides pinned to the top of the forum or pretty much anything written by @Cleon are good starting points for that.

2) Using the in game default tactics.  A valid way of starting out as they give you an introduction to various styles of play.  However if trying to learn tactics this can lead to confusion as it’s not always clear which instruction is doing what.  It can be better to start from nothing and build your own system rather than starting with a fully blown system and trying to figure out how it works.  Again however some people will take to it like a duck to water.

[phnompenhandy]

If you're looking to play 'authentically' and are overwhelmed by tactical advice, there is an excellent YouTube video I recently saw that is proper, not click-baity and pitched at beginners. Here:

FM23 TUTORIAL: HOW TO CREATE A WINNING TACTIC: A Beginner's Guide to Football Manager 2023

 

[psucolonel]

7 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

It is if you think about it. In my opinion, anyone using that phrase either doesn't understand the game and isn't worth the distraction, or is thinking in terms of exploiting the match engine rather than thinking in terms of realistic football tactics.

Ok..gotcha…I am more interested in the later, which is why I asked.

[psucolonel]

6 hours ago, herne79 said:

Sound bites to attract clicks.

In a nutshell there are different ways to play the game.  Some people just want to “win” and they’ll employ any means to do so, even using “broken” tactics which might exploit certain weaknesses in the game.  Nothing wrong with that at all, that’s how some find enjoyment and good luck to them.

Others find enjoyment by being truer to perhaps the “spirit” of the game if I can term it like that - trying to play the game in a more realistic manner that might better reflect how real life football might play out.  So instead of trying to exploit the game, they’ll try to find ways to exploit the opposition team, much like a real life coach might perhaps do.

Success can be achieved by either means although I’d suggest the former is perhaps easier than the latter.  Really it’s all about how each person finds enjoyment which is a personal choice, thus no way is “better” than the other.

However, as you are looking for a more authentic experience then avoiding exploitative strategies is probably what you are looking for.  I’d suggest one of two ways to get started with tactics:

1) Keep it simple.  Start with a basic formation, zero team or player instructions and just pick some roles that you think sound good from the in game descriptions and which might perhaps suit your players once you’ve studied them a little.  Watch a couple of matches and see how your players move.  Change some roles and see what differences you notice after a couple more games.  If it helps, watch in 2D rather than 3D or adjust cameras angles in match.  

Note - using player instructions in this scenario are only really to help you achieve a certain style of play (such as possession football or counter attacking football) and/or to address certain issues which might crop up in game.  These strategies can start to get a little more advanced so for now I’d recommend steering clear until you feel you have a decent grasp on what the player roles do.  There are plenty of tactical guides pinned to the top of the forum or pretty much anything written by @Cleon are good starting points for that.

2) Using the in game default tactics.  A valid way of starting out as they give you an introduction to various styles of play.  However if trying to learn tactics this can lead to confusion as it’s not always clear which instruction is doing what.  It can be better to start from nothing and build your own system rather than starting with a fully blown system and trying to figure out how it works.  Again however some people will take to it like a duck to water.

Thank you very much for your help.  Much appreciated!

 

[Andrew Marines]

Just want your opinion on this:

Do you think "broken/op" tactics still exist? I could say yes when we played on FM20 but now? The match engine got so much improvement i don't think you can obtain the same things with different players/matches

[Cloud9]

On 24/01/2023 at 21:42, psucolonel said:

Forgive me for this seemingly novice question (well I am one) but when people refer to a tactic as being "broken", what exactly does this mean?  Does it mean it is taking the AI to task unfairly?  

Broken tactics imply that it's imbalanced, or that you're utilizing a problem in the match engine to win. 

A couple examples are near post corners in several versions of FM and defenders struggling to deal with balls played in the air. IDK lots of people will look to min/max the match engine and most tactics you can download are probably "meta" or "broken." I'd say don't worry about all that, yea you can break the game but that's not really the point (unless you want to, do your thing).

If you're starting off: 

• I've found a lot of joy trying to emulate a style of play you enjoy IRL into your team. Tinkering and building your own style of play can be really rewarding. People on the forum are really helpful and there's a lot of great information that can ease you into a game that's intentionally vague about what goes on under the hood. 
• Experiment around with the way you want to play. The game is a sandbox and everyone will enjoy different things.  Are you interested in tactics? Doing a specific approach to squad building? Or just kicking the legs off your opponents? Do you care about playing with real players vs regens? For me I'm really only interested in English Football and specifically taking my Sheffield Wednesday up the leagues. Find what works for you and go for it. I tried taking Bath to the champions league one year, qualified, realized I was totally uninvested in the save and never played it again.  
• Make your own house rules, for example: I play with no future transfer fees allowed, give myself an 8 year time frame I'll resign at the end of, and only sign players who my scouts can find.  Getting a scout report of a wonderkid from my scout I've assigned to Senegal is one of the best things FM has to offer, I could just scout every nations u23 team and check the xgen list but it kills the game for me.

Build immersion, be whatever kind of manager you want to be. 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Cloud9