Forward Runs and Mentality.

[lyw_85]

In the game hints, forward runs is linked with mentality. Both affects positioning of the players.

In a standard 442, with the wingers given forward runs, should I give them a higher mentality or a lower mentality to compensate for the forward runs?

[isuckatfm]

Try a test match. Set the left side winger to mentality 1, FWR Often; right side winger mentality 20, FWR Often. You'll see both getting into the box except obviously the lower mentality player will tend to arrive later due to him sitting deeper. Now when you've seen that give the left side winger FWR Rarely alongside his mentality of 1. That pretty much gives you the range.

Not identical but you get the idea. The high mentality FWR often winger will try to align with the opposition back line. He might drop off to show for a pass if the attack is down his side but in general he’ll press the line.

So if you want your winger taking on his man you want to adjust his mentality/forward runs to put him in a position to do so. If you want to ping direct balls in behind the full back then you need to push them against the line. The unfortunate by-product is mentality affects decision making but it doesn’t seem to be as pronounced as it was on 08 but that may just be me seeing something that isn’t happening.

If you want your winger dropped off to take his man but also arriving late in the box when an attack comes down the other line, lower his mentality but give him forward runs often. This will get him in the box as well (right winger mentality 1, FWR often; left winger mentality 20, fwr often in screenshots below).

Hope that helps.

[Richard76]

The above is very interesting.

I don't think it's very practical though. It's a good illustration of positioning but in reality you can't have one player set to mentality of 1 and another to 20. You'll get the message there are gaps between your players and the opposition will exploit.

[isuckatfm]

The above is very interesting.

I don't think it's very practical though. It's a good illustration of positioning but in reality you can't have one player set to mentality of 1 and another to 20. You'll get the message there are gaps between your players and the opposition will exploit.

I wasn't suggesting that he set up like the screenshots.

What I'm pointing out is this is generally where he will be positioned relative to the player in possession with those settings. Thus every other setting will fall somewhere in between those two 'extreme' locations of position relative to how deep the opposition sits.

I just figured since I had screenshots it would save the opening poster the time involved in testing it out himself

[benji!!!!!]

Great posk isuckatfm, very interesting.

[lyw_85]

Great post isuckatfm.

Your contributions have been fantastic. Have been helping me ever since FM08.

[maverick_nc1]

Excellent post Isuck - its a fine balancing act of getting your wingers just where you want them. In my experience i have (for example) dropped Ronaldo's FWR to mixed and decreased his mentality in order to get the ball to him so he can take on the fullback. Seems to go against the grain a little as obviously i want him to be attacking - but reducing his attacking settings actually does this.

Backwards but true.

[Legend McSniff]

Ok,

So take the instructions for an MC, what would your expected behaviour be?

MC - FWR OFTEN, MENTALITY LOW

Would this mean waiting for attacks to build before getting forward and arriving late

or

Would this mean getting forward early and then making safe/negative sideways/back passes

What would you expect of an MC with High Mentaility, FWR rare ?? Deep lying MC spraying attacking/aggressive/risky passes around :confused:

How can we build tactic if we dont know what any of these means?

[isuckatfm]

Ok,

So take the instructions for an MC, what would your expected behaviour be?

MC - FWR OFTEN, MENTALITY LOW

Would this mean waiting for attacks to build before getting forward and arriving late

or

Would this mean getting forward early and then making safe/negative sideways/back passes

What would you expect of an MC with High Mentaility, FWR rare ?? Deep lying MC spraying attacking/aggressive/risky passes around :confused:

How can we build tactic if we dont know what any of these means?

Test the extremes and see what happens. Take control of both teams as it's easier since you don't have to wait for changes in possession. So for MC - FWR OFTEN, MENTALITY LOW set his mentality to 1 and see what he does.

With respect to mentality effect on passing decisions I don't think it's as noticeable as it was on 08 with a low mentality player but maybe the effect of creative freedom has been tweaked a bit (plus the impact of attributes like decisions and creativity is not so easy to quantify like positioning).

MC with High Mentaility, FWR rare

Off the top of my head I remember trying this with Coloccini for Newcastle (mentality 20, FWR Rarely) and it wasn't 100% deterministic. But he would often drift up the edge of the box, plus if he happned to run with the ball into an advanced position he was more likely to hang around in that advanced position rather than dropping back.

I had screenshots for these but they seem to have disappeared off my laptop :confused:

Again your post highlights something that I'm not sure SI have realised (but based on these forums alone so not exactly conclusive considering the sales figures). On these forums the majority don't like figuring out what the sliders do and how to get a player behaving how they want. They don't see that as part of the challenge, but more as an obstacle to their enjoyment of the game.

Personally I think they should consider including a video tutorial of someone who knows the ins and outs of the engine actually playing a match, and talking through the effect of sliders alongside examples of the impact within specific match engine scenarios. Maybe similar to how on Madden games you get the examples of Madden breaking down plays to help those less knowledgeable of the real life sport understand the ins and outs of what is happening. Ray Houghton might be a good shout for this since he could put it in a real world perspective and have the reputation to back up what he says (as opposed to a designer where the user might be thinking 'what the hell does he know about football?').

[googoo56]

"Personally I think they should consider including a video tutorial of someone who knows the ins and outs of the engine actually playing a match, and talking through the effect of sliders alongside examples of the impact within specific match engine scenarios. Maybe similar to how on Madden games you get the examples of Madden breaking down plays to help those less knowledgeable of the real life sport understand the ins and outs of what is happening. Ray Houghton might be a good shout for this since he could put it in a real world perspective and have the reputation to back up what he says (as opposed to a designer where the user might be thinking 'what the hell does he know about football?')."

Excellent idea m8!

[lyw_85]

I was reading the the GQ forums the other day on IGN's America rating the game 3 or 4/10.

The reason being is simple.

There is no tutorial, nothing to help a gamer get to grips with the game.

My elder brother introduced me to the game series when it was still CM2, and when he tried to pick it up again, he found it very tough.

If you were strict in your reviews, FM wouldn't get a good mark.