Defensive Counter teams

[Triggerusa39]

After a season winning the league i find teams play defensive, often playing a 4141. I struggle to break these down and often lose thanks to a ball over the top.

I have adapted my 4231 to be more aggressive just against teams playing cautious or defensive with a defensive shape. Any suggestions to break these teams down?

[Triggerusa39]

[DarJ]

I would take off work ball into the box and go for early crosses instead and I also like to go direct and decrease the tempo to the minimum or just one notch above the minimum.

In terms of your roles you have a lot of players in the same space, you have two wide players that would drive to the middle where space is limited then you have the MEZ too. I would change the MEZ to maybe a CM or BWM then one of the IFs to a W. I would also change the AP to support and put the IF on attack instead 

[Triggerusa39]

2 hours ago, DarJ said:

I would take off work ball into the box and go for early crosses instead and I also like to go direct and decrease the tempo to the minimum or just one notch above the minimum.

In terms of your roles you have a lot of players in the same space, you have two wide players that would drive to the middle where space is limited then you have the MEZ too. I would change the MEZ to maybe a CM or BWM then one of the IFs to a W. I would also change the AP to support and put the IF on attack instead 

Perfect. I will have a try with that. 

[Triggerusa39]

2 hours ago, DarJ said:

I would take off work ball into the box and go for early crosses instead and I also like to go direct and decrease the tempo to the minimum or just one notch above the minimum.

In terms of your roles you have a lot of players in the same space, you have two wide players that would drive to the middle where space is limited then you have the MEZ too. I would change the MEZ to maybe a CM or BWM then one of the IFs to a W. I would also change the AP to support and put the IF on attack instead 

That worked... beat Ajax 7:0 in friendly. They were playing 4141 defensive. 

[Triggerusa39]

2 hours ago, DarJ said:

I would take off work ball into the box and go for early crosses instead and I also like to go direct and decrease the tempo to the minimum or just one notch above the minimum.

In terms of your roles you have a lot of players in the same space, you have two wide players that would drive to the middle where space is limited then you have the MEZ too. I would change the MEZ to maybe a CM or BWM then one of the IFs to a W. I would also change the AP to support and put the IF on attack instead 

Darj, Could i be cheeky! What would you change below. This is my tactic against hard teams say away or in Champions league i.e Man City away, Barcelona away.

[Triggerusa39]

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, Triggerusa39 said:

This is my tactic against hard teams say away or in Champions league i.e Man City away, Barcelona away.

In games like this is your primary objective to keep the opposition from scoring or you to control the game?

[Triggerusa39]

11 minutes ago, DarJ said:

In games like this is your primary objective to keep the opposition from scoring or you to control the game?

Control the game and get a goal here and there. I have good enough players to match them and in most cases i am better. Thanks

[DarJ]

This is personal prefference but when I play with the 4231, I prefer to have 2 CMs that are not that adventurous since I have a front 4 that should be capable of breaking teams down so I would change the B2B to a CM or BWM then I would change one of the attacking wingers to an IW or a W to vary your attack a little bit and rather then having the AMC on attack I would have him in support and the IF on attack. Depending on the game or team I'm playing against I might change the WBs to FBs.

Instruction wise, I would remove the overlap as you don't need it and raise the defensive line. I would consider removing pass into space but I would leave it for now because I'm assuming that in these games the other team will likely attack you and you're on balanced mentality so it will encourage the players to put more balls forward 

[Triggerusa39]

48 minutes ago, DarJ said:

This is personal prefference but when I play with the 4231, I prefer to have 2 CMs that are not that adventurous since I have a front 4 that should be capable of breaking teams down so I would change the B2B to a CM or BWM then I would change one of the attacking wingers to an IW or a W to vary your attack a little bit and rather then having the AMC on attack I would have him in support and the IF on attack. Depending on the game or team I'm playing against I might change the WBs to FBs.

Instruction wise, I would remove the overlap as you don't need it and raise the defensive line. I would consider removing pass into space but I would leave it for now because I'm assuming that in these games the other team will likely attack you and you're on balanced mentality so it will encourage the players to put more balls forward 

Legend!! Thank you. Ill try that against one of the big boys! Thanks

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, Triggerusa39 said:

After a season winning the league i find teams play defensive, often playing a 4141. I struggle to break these down and often lose thanks to a ball over the top.

I have adapted my 4231 to be more aggressive just against teams playing cautious or defensive with a defensive shape. Any suggestions to break these teams down?

This is a small thing but "prevent short gk distribution" is counter productive in a high press system. He'll end up booting it long and can launch the counter. If you let him distribute it, you can win the ball back In the press. 

I'd use it situationally  instead if they have an exceptionally talented distributer goalkeeper.

If you find yourself caught on the break frequently, make sure you've got at least one properly rapid CB.

[Triggerusa39]

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

This is a small thing but "prevent short gk distribution" is counter productive in a high press system. He'll end up booting it long and can launch the counter. If you let him distribute it, you can win the ball back In the press. 

I'd use it situationally  instead if they have an exceptionally talented distributer goalkeeper.

If you find yourself caught on the break frequently, make sure you've got at least one properly rapid CB.

Thanks Cloud9,

Would you turn that off for my break defensive teams down? Or both, i.e against the big clubs away? Thanks for your help

[Cloud9]

On 07/02/2023 at 12:21, Triggerusa39 said:

Thanks Cloud9,

Would you turn that off for my break defensive teams down? Or both, i.e against the big clubs away? Thanks for your help

Definitely not against defensive teams you're trying to break down (the long ball will let them beat your press), and I'd avoid using it against a big team as well if you're still pressing high.

If you're sitting deeper you probably won't be in a situation to press the goalkeeper anyways. But, if you have players who are able to close down the keeper somehow when you're sitting deep and force the GK to kick it long with a low percentage pass, I guess it could work? You'd need to have the height advantage so it seems rather complicated and also just tiring for your players to pull off.

You're probably better off targeting the guy in their defense you can pin point the ball being distributed to rather than trying to close down the keeper. 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Cloud9