The Double Pivot Pairing?

[ThomasHK1979]

1) Do people change the roles of the double pivot’s depending on the opponent?

2) Is there a guidline somewhere who describe the best DM pairings? 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

1) Do people change the roles of the double pivot’s depending on the opponent?

2) Is there a guidline somewhere who describe the best DM pairings? 

1) Yes, you definitely should. At least changing the duty if not the role. For example I tend to run with DLP and BWM for my double pivot. I'm one of the better teams in my league (Braga) so I will use both on support duty, most of the time. I play them in DM strata. But then for tougher opponents in Champions League I will change my BWM to defend duty to make him less likely to get out of position.

2) I don't think there is such a guideline anywhere. Because there is no "best" pairing. It's not like some kind of magic formula you can apply. The pairing that will be best for you is very much dependent on your tactic and the rest of the roles around your double pivot. For example in a possession-heavy, high pressing system a Regista-SV pairing will work wonders but not so much in a more cautious counter-attacking system. So it's very much dependent on what styles of football you are after. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by crusadertsar

[The3points]

I think there are 4 commonly used terms to describe midfielders, (not only double pivots but in general): Passer (DLP/REG), Creator (RPM/AP), Runner (BBM/BWM-S/SV) , Destroyer/Sitter (BWM-D, A, HB).

For most pivots, passer and runner/sitter does the job, but of course it depends on the system and the players. Blank roles could become any of these depending on the player, and a system with all out attack might call for a more conservative pairing

 

[ThomasHK1979]

13 hours ago, The3points said:

I think there are 4 commonly used terms to describe midfielders, (not only double pivots but in general): Passer (DLP/REG), Creator (RPM/AP), Runner (BBM/BWM-S/SV) , Destroyer/Sitter (BWM-D, A, HB).

For most pivots, passer and runner/sitter does the job, but of course it depends on the system and the players. Blank roles could become any of these depending on the player, and a system with all out attack might call for a more conservative pairing

 

In this tactic which roles would you use for Bennacer and Tonali ?

[The3points]

Personally I'm not so sure of the RPM AP combo, I'd do DLP BWM, but of course that changes your structure

[crusadertsar]

8 hours ago, The3points said:

Personally I'm not so sure of the RPM AP combo, I'd do DLP BWM, but of course that changes your structure

DLP(s) and BWM(d) is one best pivot combos you can have in 4-2-3-1

[EnigMattic1]

On 09/02/2023 at 21:35, The3points said:

I think there are 4 commonly used terms to describe midfielders, (not only double pivots but in general): Passer (DLP/REG), Creator (RPM/AP), Runner (BBM/BWM-S/SV) , Destroyer/Sitter (BWM-D, A, HB).

For most pivots, passer and runner/sitter does the job, but of course it depends on the system and the players. Blank roles could become any of these depending on the player, and a system with all out attack might call for a more conservative pairing

 

Do you know if there is a thread that talks about these? I seem to remember something along those lines, but I can't remember where I read it.

[The3points]

Those terms are pretty common, so I just used my common knowledge. I think you're looking for the Book of Roles potentially though.

[VinceLombardi]

I'm partial to playing both DMs as DMC(s) with hold position, close down more, tackle harder.

But I rarely have a world-beater at DMC, opting instead to spend that money elsewhere. So I'm typically only looking for a strong pivot and positioning to recycle possession  and not looking for a source of any backbreaking plays. 

[EnigMattic1]

11 hours ago, VinceLombardi said:

I'm partial to playing both DMs as DMC(s) with hold position, close down more, tackle harder.

But I rarely have a world-beater at DMC, opting instead to spend that money elsewhere. So I'm typically only looking for a strong pivot and positioning to recycle possession  and not looking for a source of any backbreaking plays. 

Slightly off topic, has your "American Football Returns" thread changed much since SI altered some of the team instructions this year?

[VinceLombardi]

5 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

Slightly off topic, has your "American Football Returns" thread changed much since SI altered some of the team instructions this year?

Not really. I opted out of '23. I played '22 and I went back to '21 because the ME stuff. I didn't see a lot to suggest that it was addressed this year (and I've just been busy IRL). Playing '21 as I type this. 

Real bummer too. I love the WCB play from '22 (which I understand changed in '23) and a lot of the new tactical options look interesting. I'm hopeful next year will get me excited. At this point it wouldn't take much -- just tone down the big guys in front of goal and that'll prolly do it. And this coming from somebody that loves that style of play. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by VinceLombardi

[EnigMattic1]

1 hour ago, VinceLombardi said:

Not really. I opted out of '23. I played '22 and I went back to '21 because the ME stuff. I didn't see a lot to suggest that it was addressed this year (and I've just been busy IRL). Playing '21 as I type this. 

Real bummer too. I love the WCB play from '22 (which I understand changed in '23) and a lot of the new tactical options look interesting. I'm hopeful next year will get me excited. At this point it wouldn't take much -- just tone down the big guys in front of goal and that'll prolly do it. And this coming from somebody that loves that style of play. 

I'm currently taking some inspiration from your '19 thread to create my own playbook at the moment and was curious as to whether it would have changed much. There was a lot of useful tips in there.

[VinceLombardi]

54 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

I'm currently taking some inspiration from your '19 thread to create my own playbook at the moment and was curious as to whether it would have changed much. There was a lot of useful tips in there.

To the extent that it's developed any in '21 vs '19, it might be documented in this thread:

That's actually the save I am still playing. 

[Cloud9]

13 hours ago, VinceLombardi said:

Not really. I opted out of '23. I played '22 and I went back to '21 because the ME stuff. I didn't see a lot to suggest that it was addressed this year (and I've just been busy IRL). Playing '21 as I type this. 

Real bummer too. I love the WCB play from '22 (which I understand changed in '23) and a lot of the new tactical options look interesting. I'm hopeful next year will get me excited. At this point it wouldn't take much -- just tone down the big guys in front of goal and that'll prolly do it. And this coming from somebody that loves that style of play. 

Big ME changes this year on FM23, lower mentalitys and blocks are more effective now if that's important to you.

WCB aren't so dramatic as they were when they first came out, they still get forward but not as much as. They also introduced a "chaos" element, mental abilities are a bit more important although its mostly defensive players getting caught out.

[VinceLombardi]

7 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Big ME changes this year on FM23, lower mentalitys and blocks are more effective now if that's important to you.

WCB aren't so dramatic as they were when they first came out, they still get forward but not as much as. They also introduced a "chaos" element, mental abilities are a bit more important although its mostly defensive players getting caught out.

That all sounds good to me. '23 could actually be really awesome. I haven't had time to put hands on it myself. 

Big problem for me is that, my playstyle really emphasizes physicality. The '22 changes made that style super dominate (without the AI reacting to it properly). Since I already played that way, it was like playing on easy-mode and then some. Kinda like if you enjoy creative central passing play in the '16 ME. 

Is physicality still king? 

And more importantly has AI player valuations/tactics/roster decisions caught up with understanding that about the ME?

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by VinceLombardi

[DarJ]

35 minutes ago, VinceLombardi said:

Is physicality still king? 

Yes. A Haalandnd type striker will sore lots of goals and if you have defenders that are very good in the air and fast you will do really well