As a newly promoted team to the National League from VNS what changes would you make to this tactic to adapt to a tougher league?

[trueblue9877]

Either team instructions or player roles wise? 

[CJ_Randell]

Maybe reduce the tempo or remove run at defence. 

This increases the likelihood you lose the ball which might cause problems if you're now weaker than the opponents. 

[Cloud9]

On 10/02/2023 at 06:29, trueblue9877 said:

Either team instructions or player roles wise? 

It's very aggressive for a promoted side, that isn't necessarily a problem but I'd try getting  little more hard work from a couple roles. Ex. swapping the DLF to support, or a IF to IW.

The BBM is a 100% remove. Players in the lower divisions rant strong enough (and Angeli specifically) to take advantage of such. role. At lower levels it's better to tell players what you want for them than putting them on a "free" role. 

In general, the step up won't see much change. Focus on bringing in new squad members in the window and you'll do fine. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Cloud9

[trueblue9877]

On 15/02/2023 at 19:51, Cloud9 said:

It's very aggressive for a promoted side, that isn't necessarily a problem but I'd try getting  little more hard work from a couple roles. Ex. swapping the DLF to support, or a IF to IW.

The BBM is a 100% remove. Players in the lower divisions rant strong enough (and Angeli specifically) to take advantage of such. role. At lower levels it's better to tell players what you want for them than putting them on a "free" role. 

In general, the step up won't see much change. Focus on bringing in new squad members in the window and you'll do fine. 

Hi, so I have noticed that results are heavily dependent  on my pre season media prediction table

It does make sense as stronger teams tend to win more but in this case there's  literally no money for loans or transfers so I was wondering  what I can do to strengthen the squad.

Because for example if the team is predicted to finish 20th/24th the season  becomes a huge struggle but if we were predicted to finish 12th, things are very easy and we are dominant.

[warlock]

4 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

there's  literally no money for loans or transfers so I was wondering  what I can do to strengthen the squad

Trials, and lots of them. Which should lead to free transfers.

I'm in a similar situation, just promoted to the VNL having won the VNN. I'm not planning any changes to my tactic as I don't believe there's much difference in quality between the bottom half of the VNL compared to the top half of the VNN - we should be fine for a bottom-half finish, and relegation really shouldn't be on the cards. If we struggle I'll try to address the problems.

Here are my transfers:

And you can see that most of them are very capable at this level:

The free signings were entirely as a result of trials. I missed out on two or three times as many - and some much better players - because they went to established VNL or L2 sides, or because I couldn't or wouldn't meet their pay demands. All through the transfer window I kept 2 candidates on trial for every available squad position, first choice or backup. As some signed elsewhere (or were deemed not good enough for us) I brought in another candidate.

4 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

if the team is predicted to finish 20th/24th the season  becomes a huge struggle but if we were predicted to finish 12th, things are very easy and we are dominant

Yes, but you've got that backwards. You won't struggle because you're predicted to finish in the relegation places; you're predicted to finish there because the pundits expect your squad to struggle.

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

Hi, so I have noticed that results are heavily dependent  on my pre season media prediction table

It does make sense as stronger teams tend to win more but in this case there's  literally no money for loans or transfers so I was wondering  what I can do to strengthen the squad.

Because for example if the team is predicted to finish 20th/24th the season  becomes a huge struggle but if we were predicted to finish 12th, things are very easy and we are dominant.

@warlock the trials are great advice for a Vanarma side. 

Filter for and give trials to players with appearances for their youth international team (you'll be looking for smaller nations) and work from there. It's free and quick scouting. You'll want to sign young players who can go straight into the first team, not project players. For every 50-100 trials or so you'll find a gem. I'd recommend to do extra filtering based on a players physical attributes as well. 

The best way to get cash is by freeing up wages. Fire all your staff for the youth team, and move on all the players in your youth squad, along with senior players on big wages. Also ask your board for a senior affiliate if possible, this can bring in 100k a year and let you loan players in for free.

I'd recommend looking to sign the players that top English sides release from their academy each year, these are high potential kids who can really make a difference. They'll send you a newsletter on the players being released, swoop in and tell them they'll be a star player and offer them everything you've got. I think I got 3 from Tottenham the year I got promoted from Vanarama South with Bath and they stayed with the squad all the way to the Premier league. I had to put them on 800-1200 pounds a week though which was really only possible by axing the youth team. 

I think my best free signing was Mason Barrett, a 21 year old free transfer CB with 18 jumping reach and 15 pace/acceleration. He was my starting CB all the way through the leagues and it was only when we got to the Prem that I needed to drop him. That was on FM22. Absolute bonkers. The other recommendation was a free signing I made in Vanarama South, Enock Asante, an 18 year old wide target man with pace/strength/jumping reach of all 13-14. I think you're playing on FM22 based on the pink button, so might be worth seeing of either of those lads are available for you in your save.

 

 With this method I got promoted every year using no future fees from Vanarama South to the Championship (where it took me two to get to the Prem).

Edited February 17, 2023 by Cloud9

[trueblue9877]

12 hours ago, warlock said:

Trials, and lots of them. Which should lead to free transfers.

I'm in a similar situation, just promoted to the VNL having won the VNN. I'm not planning any changes to my tactic as I don't believe there's much difference in quality between the bottom half of the VNL compared to the top half of the VNN - we should be fine for a bottom-half finish, and relegation really shouldn't be on the cards. If we struggle I'll try to address the problems.

Here are my transfers:

And you can see that most of them are very capable at this level:

The free signings were entirely as a result of trials. I missed out on two or three times as many - and some much better players - because they went to established VNL or L2 sides, or because I couldn't or wouldn't meet their pay demands. All through the transfer window I kept 2 candidates on trial for every available squad position, first choice or backup. As some signed elsewhere (or were deemed not good enough for us) I brought in another candidate.

Yes, but you've got that backwards. You won't struggle because you're predicted to finish in the relegation places; you're predicted to finish there because the pundits expect your squad to struggle.

Actually  yes I agree, I was wrong  about that because  with the same tactic I was able to get Braintree, (predicted 23rd) to 5th in my first season  and with signings and loans due to more money from deep cup runs and league finish in the second season we are predicted to be 11th.

The main problem  is that when I use a different team (Pau FC) the tactic continued to do well and I was even promoted in the second season despite being predicted mid table, the promotion season was a difficult one but that was most likely a recruitment issue, I used a different team Accrington Stanley but there the tactic wasn't  as effective with the starting squad and there was no money for loans or free transfers.

Like I'm talking opposing teams somehow getting 3XG sometimes with the tactic in the first screenshot and the team is also predicted to finish 20th /24th I can avoid being sacked but I'd just like to know how I can tell if a team can compete ahead of the season.

In another save with Accrington Stanley I used the in game editor to give wage budget and transfer money, got some loans and transfers in but the team media prediction stayed the same, I was able to get back to back 6th place finishes.

[trueblue9877]

13 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

@warlock the trials are great advice for a Vanarma side. 

Filter for and give trials to players with appearances for their youth international team (you'll be looking for smaller nations) and work from there. It's free and quick scouting. You'll want to sign young players who can go straight into the first team, not project players. For every 50-100 trials or so you'll find a gem. I'd recommend to do extra filtering based on a players physical attributes as well. 

The best way to get cash is by freeing up wages. Fire all your staff for the youth team, and move on all the players in your youth squad, along with senior players on big wages. Also ask your board for a senior affiliate if possible, this can bring in 100k a year and let you loan players in for free.

I'd recommend looking to sign the players that top English sides release from their academy each year, these are high potential kids who can really make a difference. They'll send you a newsletter on the players being released, swoop in and tell them they'll be a star player and offer them everything you've got. I think I got 3 from Tottenham the year I got promoted from Vanarama South with Bath and they stayed with the squad all the way to the Premier league. I had to put them on 800-1200 pounds a week though which was really only possible by axing the youth team. 

I think my best free signing was Mason Barrett, a 21 year old free transfer CB with 18 jumping reach and 15 pace/acceleration. He was my starting CB all the way through the leagues and it was only when we got to the Prem that I needed to drop him. That was on FM22. Absolute bonkers. The other recommendation was a free signing I made in Vanarama South, Enock Asante, an 18 year old wide target man with pace/strength/jumping reach of all 13-14. I think you're playing on FM22 based on the pink button, so might be worth seeing of either of those lads are available for you in your save.

 

 With this method I got promoted every year using no future fees from Vanarama South to the Championship (where it took me two to get to the Prem).

Yes you're  right about the FM 2022, I will try and do this more but I'd just like to ask how do you know when a team is ready to compete exactly. 

Picture this you've just taken over a team expected to be 18th/20th by the media and you have signed a few players on loan / free transfers and feel like the team has been improved however your media prediction hasn't  changed

I'm not saying that I'm expecting  to win the league or get promoted but in that scenario how would you expect the next season to go.

[warlock]

1 hour ago, trueblue9877 said:

I'd just like to know how I can tell if a team can compete ahead of the season

I can't give you a simple answer (I often struggle myself). But you can get an idea in several ways:

1. The pre-season prediction. Not entirely reliable - I've often won promotion with a team predicted to struggle against relegation - but it will give you an idea.

2. The squad analysis features in the data hub, and your AssMan's view of the squad strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, if you're very weak in all areas (compared to the rest of the division) you're going to struggle. Usually it will be a mixed bag so then you have to find a way - tactically - of making the most of your strengths and minimising your weaknesses.

3. If your coaches are decent for judging ability, they'll tell you how many of your squad are at or below the level you're playing. If most of your squad - or even just a group of key players - are good or decent for the VNN you can do quite well. If you have no players at VNN level you're likely to struggle. Having said that, players rated good or better for the division below will still play at a decent level; it's the backups and youngsters rated at regional league level that can cause you problems.

A couple of other thoughts... Scouting makes very little difference at this level so pay for the cheapest scouting package (or do without altogether), then move the spare scouting budget into transfers, and then into wages. Any players who aren't good enough, get rid. You're unlikely to get a transfer fee but getting them off your wage budget frees up the room for another signing or two.

[trueblue9877]

14 minutes ago, warlock said:

I can't give you a simple answer (I often struggle myself). But you can get an idea in several ways:

1. The pre-season prediction. Not entirely reliable - I've often won promotion with a team predicted to struggle against relegation - but it will give you an idea.

2. The squad analysis features in the data hub, and your AssMan's view of the squad strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, if you're very weak in all areas (compared to the rest of the division) you're going to struggle. Usually it will be a mixed bag so then you have to find a way - tactically - of making the most of your strengths and minimising your weaknesses.

3. If your coaches are decent for judging ability, they'll tell you how many of your squad are at or below the level you're playing. If most of your squad - or even just a group of key players - are good or decent for the VNN you can do quite well. If you have no players at VNN level you're likely to struggle. Having said that, players rated good or better for the division below will still play at a decent level; it's the backups and youngsters rated at regional league level that can cause you problems.

A couple of other thoughts... Scouting makes very little difference at this level so pay for the cheapest scouting package (or do without altogether), then move the spare scouting budget into transfers, and then into wages. Any players who aren't good enough, get rid. You're unlikely to get a transfer fee but getting them off your wage budget frees up the room for another signing or two.

Oh yeah I get that ALL the time in VNS where despite being predicted to be one of the worst teams in a league we still make the playoffs or even get promoted however the fun stops when the promotion season starts.

I don't  have a problem seeing that the squad had been improved in VNS but in higher leagues it feels like my loans don't  make a difference.

[Verby]

15 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

@warlock the trials are great advice for a Vanarma side. 

Filter for and give trials to players with appearances for their youth international team (you'll be looking for smaller nations) and work from there. It's free and quick scouting. You'll want to sign young players who can go straight into the first team, not project players. For every 50-100 trials or so you'll find a gem. I'd recommend to do extra filtering based on a players physical attributes as well. 

The best way to get cash is by freeing up wages. Fire all your staff for the youth team, and move on all the players in your youth squad, along with senior players on big wages. Also ask your board for a senior affiliate if possible, this can bring in 100k a year and let you loan players in for free.

I'd recommend looking to sign the players that top English sides release from their academy each year, these are high potential kids who can really make a difference. They'll send you a newsletter on the players being released, swoop in and tell them they'll be a star player and offer them everything you've got. I think I got 3 from Tottenham the year I got promoted from Vanarama South with Bath and they stayed with the squad all the way to the Premier league. I had to put them on 800-1200 pounds a week though which was really only possible by axing the youth team. 

I think my best free signing was Mason Barrett, a 21 year old free transfer CB with 18 jumping reach and 15 pace/acceleration. He was my starting CB all the way through the leagues and it was only when we got to the Prem that I needed to drop him. That was on FM22. Absolute bonkers. The other recommendation was a free signing I made in Vanarama South, Enock Asante, an 18 year old wide target man with pace/strength/jumping reach of all 13-14. I think you're playing on FM22 based on the pink button, so might be worth seeing of either of those lads are available for you in your save.

 

 With this method I got promoted every year using no future fees from Vanarama South to the Championship (where it took me two to get to the Prem).

I am Hemel Hempstead and got Promoted first season to the National League and I am sitting 9th in March, which is great but I have Millwall as a Senior Affiliate and they literally wont loan me any players? They are telling me they want the player to play with higher quality players, seems abit pointless to have then, they are in the Championship.

 

Problem I am having in this League is my Board are refusing to go Pro, I am still Semi Pro and my players train once a week. Finding it hard to compete with the likes of Wrexham and Chesterfield who have players on 4k/5k/6k a week.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Verby

[Cloud9]

15 hours ago, Verby said:

I am Hemel Hempstead and got Promoted first season to the National League and I am sitting 9th in March, which is great but I have Millwall as a Senior Affiliate and they literally wont loan me any players? They are telling me they want the player to play with higher quality players, seems abit pointless to have then, they are in the Championship.

 

Problem I am having in this League is my Board are refusing to go Pro, I am still Semi Pro and my players train once a week. Finding it hard to compete with the likes of Wrexham and Chesterfield who have players on 4k/5k/6k a week.

You can request a new senior affiliate from your board. The board is refusing to go pro because you haven't got promoted from non league football. You won't even have to ask, when you gain promotion to proper football you'll get a message it's been granted. 

• At the low level's I just used it for yearly cash injection from the senior club (100k being a huge amount if you get a big club). I used that cash to bring in two Tottenham academy players they'd released that summer and in giving them playing time they developed in decent players in the journey. 
• Senior affiliates loans themselves are a great way of making that championship leap to the premier league. 
• In my experience getting out of the North/South Vanarama was the biggest challenge of the lower leagues, once you're in Vanarama it's all about the recruitment you can do so put the tactics on the back burner and put all your energy into trials for u23 players. You need to find young players you can develop in your journey up the leagues AND that can get you promoted now. 
• If you've just got promoted I'd look for that message on who the top English clubs are releasing from their academy and look to poach them.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Cloud9

[Verby]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

You can request a new senior affiliate from your board. The board is refusing to go pro because you haven't got promoted from non league football. You won't even have to ask, when you gain promotion to proper football you'll get a message it's been granted. 

• At the low level's I just used it for yearly cash injection from the senior club (100k being a huge amount if you get a big club). I used that cash to bring in two Tottenham academy players they'd released that summer and in giving them playing time they developed in decent players in the journey. 
• Senior affiliates loans themselves are a great way of making that championship leap to the premier league. 
• In my experience getting out of the North/South Vanarama was the biggest challenge of the lower leagues, once you're in Vanarama it's all about the recruitment you can do so put the tactics on the back burner and put all your energy into trials for u23 players. You need to find young players you can develop in your journey up the leagues AND that can get you promoted now. 
• If you've just got promoted I'd look for that message on who the top English clubs are releasing from their academy and look to poach them.

Thanks mate, managed to secure two Youth players released from Chelsea who are 4* CA compared to my squad so delighted about that. They are joining me this month for the pre-season. Unfortunately missed out on the playoffs by 2 points. Hopefully, I can bag a few more players released from better clubs like you said.

 

 

[trueblue9877]

23 hours ago, warlock said:

I can't give you a simple answer (I often struggle myself). But you can get an idea in several ways:

1. The pre-season prediction. Not entirely reliable - I've often won promotion with a team predicted to struggle against relegation - but it will give you an idea.

2. The squad analysis features in the data hub, and your AssMan's view of the squad strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, if you're very weak in all areas (compared to the rest of the division) you're going to struggle. Usually it will be a mixed bag so then you have to find a way - tactically - of making the most of your strengths and minimising your weaknesses.

3. If your coaches are decent for judging ability, they'll tell you how many of your squad are at or below the level you're playing. If most of your squad - or even just a group of key players - are good or decent for the VNN you can do quite well. If you have no players at VNN level you're likely to struggle. Having said that, players rated good or better for the division below will still play at a decent level; it's the backups and youngsters rated at regional league level that can cause you problems.

A couple of other thoughts... Scouting makes very little difference at this level so pay for the cheapest scouting package (or do without altogether), then move the spare scouting budget into transfers, and then into wages. Any players who aren't good enough, get rid. You're unlikely to get a transfer fee but getting them off your wage budget frees up the room for another signing or two.

Hi, so I played another season  where I tried to use base Accrington and just getting loans in and  a couple of free transfers ( you start with 0 transfer and wage budget) and we were predicted to be 20th  odds to win the league it didn't  go well.

Then I played another season with the editor to give myself a few thousands in extra  wage budget and 4 million in transfer budget, we were able to improve the team and was predicted to finish 12th by the media but we managed to get promoted to the Championship by winning the league.

How can I prepare for the upcoming season as I am now predicted to finish rock bottom.

 

[warlock]

46 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

How can I prepare for the upcoming season

Well, all the previous advice still applies. It's always a matter of improving the squad to handle the step up. I assume you have loads of transfer budget left 'cos I can't imagine you spent £4m in the VNN.

[trueblue9877]

26 minutes ago, warlock said:

Well, all the previous advice still applies. It's always a matter of improving the squad to handle the step up. I assume you have loads of transfer budget left 'cos I can't imagine you spent £4m in the VNN.

I have done that but it had no effect on the rating, the rating actually went down at one point.

Plus this is  a season  where we were going from League One to the Championship.

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

Hi, so I played another season  where I tried to use base Accrington and just getting loans in and  a couple of free transfers ( you start with 0 transfer and wage budget) and we were predicted to be 20th  odds to win the league it didn't  go well.

Then I played another season with the editor to give myself a few thousands in extra  wage budget and 4 million in transfer budget, we were able to improve the team and was predicted to finish 12th by the media but we managed to get promoted to the Championship by winning the league.

How can I prepare for the upcoming season as I am now predicted to finish rock bottom.

 

I wouldn't worry about media prediction too much, you're predicted to go down based on your promotion from a lower league which is normal.

• I'd focus on getting in 6 loans from that can get you promoted to the premier league.