Fernando Diniz's Fluminense - The different ways to attack

[ictdaze670]

Functional attack

This is a controversial topic in the Brazilian tactical community. Some people defend the existence of this offensive organization approach, while others claim it's a collective delusion. It's a comical debate that has become an editorial trend, a political party, and a worldview.

If you're only vaguely familiar with this topic, read comments out here but have never sought to delve deeper, I recommend the obvious. Read the writings of "Joszef Bozsik", one of the originators of functional attack, on Medium and form your own opinion. I'll leave the links at the end of the article.

 

Fluminense under Fernando Diniz

This time, we'll give the coach himself a chance to describe his model:

"My game itself is heavily inspired by Guardiola, in the sense of wanting to impose the game, dominate, and have fun, I think we similarly understand football, possibly. But it's curious: when I saw his teams' games live in the stadium, it became very clear that the way of executing is very different," explains Diniz.

"His team is positional, it's a game in which players hold positions in the areas of the field they occupy. And the game comes to them. The exceptions are the center forward, in this case, Aguero, and the first man, Fernandinho. My team today, for example, is completely different. We have a lot of positional interchanges, we keep fewer positions in the midfield and upfront, we try to apply a dynamic game, it's a different collective participation."

Contrary to most modern managers and their constant battle for space through positional play, Diniz adopts fluid possession-based tactics based on constant approximation and numerical superiority. A narrow 4-2-3-1/4-2-2-2 is used with different individual roles based on each player's style. Fluid and free-flowing structure, not rigid.

The Model

Perhaps the team that most abuses the crowding of players in the side corridors, Fluminense shows off refinement in short touches to overcome one-on-one and reach the goal. In these approaches, one can notice a curious X pattern.

  

 

The "tricolor" makes frequent use of attraction, with André, and even Nonato simultaneously, dropping between the defenders, in addition to many supports from the attacking players. By moving the ball wide and emptying the central marking, it makes it easier for the striker Cano to make unmarked runs.

 

 

Team characteristics and how it sets up depending on which side has the ball:

Notes:

• The concentration of 6-7 players on one side
• Ganso is close to the sideline, facing the field. Dictating associations, pausing and providing technical relief
• Caio Paulista and Luiz Henrique as options on the opposite side
• Defensive midfielders supporting the build-up play (full-backs positioned higher up the field)
• André directs the build-up play according to his interpretation, dropping between the center-backs
• Nonato with more incisive runs
• 4-4-2 formation without the ball
• Arias makes short passes and breaks lines with excellent acceleration
• Always pass and move forward. Space is conquered, not occupied.
• Samuel Xavier attacks the area from the half-space as a surprise element amidst the associations in the corridor
• Cano providing support

 

Replication in the Game

 

The only thing I can't see at the moment is that my AMs don't associate as much as I want, they don't get toward the byline simultaneously for example. I already tell them to Roam, didn't change so much. What do you guys suggest?

I will make some tweaks again, but I'll leave that for now.

 

Text 1 by Jozsef Bozsik

https://medium.com/@Jozsef_Bozsik/entre-a-bola-e-o-homem-há-o-espaço-e-o-tempo-ataque-posicional-jogo-de-posição-e-ataque-89fd98088355

Text 2 

https://medium.com/@Jozsef_Bozsik/entre-a-bola-e-o-homem-há-o-espaço-e-o-tempo-ataque-posicional-jogo-de-posição-e-ataque-funcional-6c70bc622931

[davidbarros2]

Seems like a great project!
Perhaps you can't replicate it entirely, just focus on the main elements of Diniz style, a particular match or moment of a game...

What are you observing with your AM's? You want them to go to the byline with or without the ball? You want them to start at the centre and spread wide (and go back to the center to defend) or the other way around (starting wide, cutting inside and going back to the sides to defend)?

[ictdaze670]

22 minutos atrás, davidbarros2 disse:

Seems like a great project!
Perhaps you can't replicate it entirely, just focus on the main elements of Diniz style, a particular match or moment of a game...

What are you observing with your AM's? You want them to go to the byline with or without the ball? You want them to start at the centre and spread wide (and go back to the center to defend) or the other way around (starting wide, cutting inside and going back to the sides to defend)?

I want them to be where the ball is. The Enganche in particular (Ganso for Fluminense), needs to see the game in front of him and needs to face the field which is why he's constantly going to the sidelines. I use APs here, the reason I didn't choose Enganche was that I want to be able to tick "Roam from position", to get that movement from him, he's always near the ball but not much as I want from him.

The way they go without the ball will depend on the formation. If they come up with a 4231, Enganche joins the striker to form a 442, if it was a 4222 then the AMs need to drop. They go man to man to pressure the opposition build-up, so for example, if the opposition goes with a 433 they form a 4132, with the Enganche and striker on the center backs or with the two forwards depending on the structure (4231/4222) they bring.

[Diverisma158]

Fantastic thread! There are some PI??

[davidbarros2]

Em 18/02/2023 em 14:38, ictdaze670 disse:

I want them to be where the ball is. The Enganche in particular (Ganso for Fluminense), needs to see the game in front of him and needs to face the field which is why he's constantly going to the sidelines. I use APs here, the reason I didn't choose Enganche was that I want to be able to tick "Roam from position", to get that movement from him, he's always near the ball but not much as I want from him.

The way they go without the ball will depend on the formation. If they come up with a 4231, Enganche joins the striker to form a 442, if it was a 4222 then the AMs need to drop. They go man to man to pressure the opposition build-up, so for example, if the opposition goes with a 433 they form a 4132, with the Enganche and striker on the center backs or with the two forwards depending on the structure (4231/4222) they bring.

Since your enganche (Ganso as AP) will play on the center of the pitch sidelined by 2 other AMC's, it might not be just as easy to make them go wide to whichever side the ball goes.

But if roam from position isn't delivering what you want, you may try other PI's such as move into channels perhaps? You can also try to remove the Counter instruction and go for Hold Shape - besides being more suitable to Diniz approach of positional play it would be hard for you to understand the issues with the positioning of your AMC with counter + roam from position ticked. It will be easy to start simple and building from there than to have those 2 instructions (TI + PI) ON and wondering about the issues you see happening on the pitch.

Regarding the defensive shape, It would be easy to defend in a 442 if you were using that shape as base on some sort of lopsided 442/4411 might also work...

[Lordluap]

How about moving the AM's to CM strata?  It seems easier to get CM's to move forward and wider than it does AM's...

[jondragonborn]

Thats a fantastic project.

I, myself, tried to implement some kind of "functional attack" after reading József Bozsik's texts. I wasnt very successful. I've learned somethings that I can share with you, perhaps can help you out.

- The match engine doesnt seems prepared for that kind of football. It seems more prepared for the positional play. 

- Players on support naturally try to make more associations. However, you need to use roles that are hardwire to go "pick up the ball". The regista does exactly that. I tried the Trequartista upfront, but the "Attack-only" option was a obstacle in making associations. DLF-S always get back, which is nice to associate. RPM probably does as well, but I didnt tried. Players on attack are constantly trying to push the line. Also, they always get the ball and think forward, which doesnt really allow to the overload happen and cuts everyone behind him from the play.

- We can simulate some of the actions by micromanagement (which is kind of the opposite of the "brazilian idea", but it works). For instance, I found out that less team instructions is good, because it allows the Players Instructions to shine. I use "shorter passing" to every role except the ones that more commonly will try the "breakout passes". I instruct them to play "normal" on passes ranges. I also instruct every player except defenders to "shoot less". This allow to more one-twos close to the box. I now get once every 5 or 6 games one of those goals where the two strikers exchange passes in front of the goalkeeper to an open goal.

- Individual traits are you best friends, especially if you use few Team Instructions. I found out that come deep to get the ball is good to every support position upfront. It makes the player come near for association if a player behind him has the ball

- Try to "plan" the way for the ball. For instance, your DM will likely try to pass to a Wing Back or Fullback. Its easier to pass to the flanks when building up. But, then, you need someone on the central flanks for the player on the flank to pass on. 

- A very useful Team Instruction that I notice is Cross Early instead of working the ball into the box. I found out that Crossing Early allows the team to enjoy some runs the forward is making. 

[Lordluap]

So I've been interested in this thread and been playing around in the background and come up with this based on the video's provided and your ideas:

 

Interestingly, the Enganche role is the one that seems to work best for the lateral movements - ala Ganso.  A player with high Off the Ball and Movement would be great.

I feel this is pretty close, certainly within the Match Engine limitations and the  lack of lateral movements within roles.

 

Give it a try and let me know your thoughts.

[nhami]

I tried recreating Fernando Diniz tactics. These are my interpretation on the match engine of some things that noticed about his tactics:

- His teams takes an insane amount of tactical risk. In match engine terms, this would be translated into Attacking Mentality. The players move forward overloading the opposition defenders and also taking shots at the goal at the slightest opportunity. I think his teams were always the team with the statistics of the highest amount of shot on goal in the league.

- The defenders and goalkeeper take a high offensive risk and refuse to hoof the ball even when they are pressed. This would be the More Creative Freedom Team Instruction. Attack duty players naturally have high Creative Freedom, More Creative Freedom instruction makes even Defend duty players have high Creative Freedom. This is like giving the Defend duty players the Tries to Play Way Out of Trouble Player Preferred move. It makes the defenders refuse to make clearances when pressed by the opposition. Also, Defend duty player will try to create chances when in attack in the final third. It essentially makes Defend duty a "Create Chances" Role.

- His player dribbles with the ball a lot. Dribble More Team Instruction. Again this is more noticeable with Defenders who in other tactics avoid doing that but his Defenders carry the ball forward whenever there is space available in front of them.

- His team like to create from the back. Much More Shorter Passing Team Instruction and Slower Tempo. The ball is slowly moved from the first third to the second third to, finally, the final third where the team will try to create chances.

- Defensive Formation is a 4-4-2 and Team Fluidity is Very Fluid with one Poacher on Attack Duty and the rest of the team on Support Duty and put Get Further Forward Individual Instruction on every player Support Duty so as not to isolate the Striker.

- Stay Wider Individual Instruction on the two central midfielders to create that X in the side of the field.

- High Defensive Line, High Press, Much More Often

I tried the tactic and is playing very fun football. I will probably decrease Team Mentality to Positive or Balanced to make the tactic more stable to get better results.

[tvtsvo]

Great to see a thread about Diniz's tactic! Personally, I discovered him through Jamie Hamilton's articles on medium (https://medium.com/@stirlingj1982) and since then I wanted to recreate his tactic on fm. 

Few observations here:

-to recreate the narrowness of his system and the close proximity of his players, I decided to instruct the wingers to swap their position during the game. The problem is that I think this is not something Diniz ask to do at his players but rather to play alongside (sometime you can see the wingers playing on the same side and the opposite fullback alone maintening the width). I found it difficult to create so this is also why i put this instruction. 

-my right fullback is in the middle because i played him on the left during the second period.

-I simply ask my number ten to roam from position.

 

[Skojardu]

can somebody load up the tactics?

[Adonalsium]

How about trying inside forwards on sit narrower instead of attacking midfielders? They tend to get to the byline in the box.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Adonalsium