Schwarz Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 In my save, I managed Benfica for 7 seasons. Had by far the best team in Portugal and had healthy finances. Due to boredom (was always winning, my last league season won 29 and drew 1 in 30 games), I moved to Inter to embrace a new challenge. Benfica appointed a new manager and what did he do? Sold loads of players for 170 million euros. Bought loads of players for 220 million (I had left 40 millions in the account). Meanwhile, the wage bill escalated to 2x what i was paying. So, bankruptcy will be inevitable as the club has no chance to upkeep such a wage bill on the long run. Is this just a lousy manager's job? (It was Fernando Santos btw). Or is it bad AI in general? Why did he revolutionize the best squad in Portugal, doubling the wage bill and condemning the club to bankruptcy on the way? These revolutions don't happen when an AI manager takes over a club from another AI manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 In 08 I played until the mid 2020's and there was only one Premier league team that hadn't gone bust (Arsenal) - most of the Championship sides had gone bust too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Maybe part of the problem is poor Chairmen? I noticed from using 'genie scout' in FM 08 that Chairmen have ratings, and I wondered if there was maybe a problem in general with them setting unrealistic unsustainable budgets for teams. I usually find in the lower leagues even if I stay within the wage budget without altering it by using transfer money, I can quite often be unable to stay in profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjawi. Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Any team I have left always gets ripped apart by the next manager and they go from a very good team to a very poor team. It's happened through out the versions and it's always been disappointing to see all my hard work go to waste when I leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 haven't we seen in real life manager's destroying teams, Souness at Newcastle, Alan Perrin at Pompey. even chairman, Rupert Lowe at Southampton.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 AI managers are brainless. Just some code lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Maybe part of the problem is poor Chairmen? I noticed from using 'genie scout' in FM 08 that Chairmen have ratings, and I wondered if there was maybe a problem in general with them setting unrealistic unsustainable budgets for teams. I usually find in the lower leagues even if I stay within the wage budget without altering it by using transfer money, I can quite often be unable to stay in profit. I think part of the problem is the inability to correctly assess the clubs financial situation. As I left 40M in the bank and a handfull of players worth huge amounts of money that the new manager sold, the club begins to act like a millionaire. Problem is, they can't keep it up for long with that huge wage bill, and the amount spent on players that aren't used is obscene. They went from healthy rich to inevitably poor in 2 months. Clubs should pay more attention to their turnover when setting budgets, thus preventing managers from suicidal overspending and, with that destroy the net transfer gains obtained during several seasons. Right now, money in the bank is the only criteria when setting budgets, which is clearly insufficient. But why would he get rid of my great players and buy his own players in such a massive way?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim stjfc Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 hmph tell me bout, i had a st johnstone team qualifying for the champs leag and challenging for the spl when i had a bad start and was inexplicably sacked, jim jefferies got them relegated that season and sold top players for peanuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
small Mac Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I think maybe one aspect of this problem is the AI manager not fully recognising some players' potential. Looking back at times when something similar has happened in one of my games, the new manager saw my young, high potential right back simply as an average player (which he was at that point). So rather than sticking with him to see him develop into a world-class player, he goes off and spends millions on a slightly better replacement. I think alot of it is quite realistic though, new managers will always want to mould the squad to their own preferences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 You're like a fella that dumps his wife to shack up with some tart, then complains when the wife's new lover doesn't meet your approval. LEAVE IT MATE, YOU'VE MOVED ON!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrari312 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I've found this to be more pronounced when I've taken a lower league team further than they have a right to go. In FM08 I'd taken a team from the German regionals to mid-table in the Bundesliga, they were on a sound financial footing and crowds had steadily risen - still the smallest in the top division but this was no Gretna scenario. The following season, our second in the top flight, we were bottom after about 10 games - I felt we were on the verge of turning a corner and making a run at mid-table again, when I was sacked. The new manager promptly de-transfer listed a bunch of players I had in the reserves running their contracts down/waiting for a buyer (I had quite a big player turnover as I rose up the leagues), and brought them into the first team. Then, he transfer listed some of my key men, selling a few in January, and brought in a bunch of players on frees who were, well, cack, and ended up with a first team squad of about 35-40 players. I think they scored about 5 more points all season, and of course finished bottom by a massive margin. Gave me one hell of a smug feeling Still, it was a bit bittersweet I guess, while I felt vindicated, I did feel some sense of attachment to that wonderful collection of virtual players I'd built up and it was sad to see them ripped apart! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwq Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 You're like a fella that dumps his wife to shack up with some tart, then complains when the wife's new lover doesn't meet your approval. LEAVE IT MATE, YOU'VE MOVED ON!!!!! You leave a team to further your career but may still have a lot of affection for the team you left and want to see them do well. I know irl that Mixu when he went back to Finland he still kept track of Hibs results then came back to manage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veg Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Iain Dowie did just this with Charlton a few years ago, he used a couple of months to ruin Alan Curbishley's work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted December 3, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re the original post: Was this FM2009? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millsy111 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 haven't we seen in real life manager's destroying teams, Souness at Newcastle, Alan Perrin at Pompey. even chairman, Rupert Lowe at Southampton.... Paul Ince at Blackburn perhaps too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightedManager Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I can't possibly take that crap. I stick another human controlled manager in charge of team I've left. Not really to play seriously, but more to ensure the decimation does not take place. I hate it. It's a real problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Maybe part of the problem is poor Chairmen? I noticed from using 'genie scout' in FM 08 that Chairmen have ratings, and I wondered if there was maybe a problem in general with them setting unrealistic unsustainable budgets for teams. I usually find in the lower leagues even if I stay within the wage budget without altering it by using transfer money, I can quite often be unable to stay in profit. The thing is that many lower league sides are running in deficit in order to get up in the world. Then teams can have complete collapses, like Luton. Actually, I'm sure the AI couldn't bugger up my Derby side, the board are very very cautious with their transfer budgets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re the original post: Was this FM2009? Yes Paul. It was. I've got a save if you want to see it. The results of the new appointment are there, the path to bankruptcy is clear, but the game date is past the signing/selling decisions. Benfica are losing 8M p/ month! 9M left in the account, but they will only last one month until the next installments are due... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giarc Ronyag Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re apply when the manager gets sacked, then you have a challenge on your hands, and the fans will love you, like redknapp before he left portsmouth again.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 You're like a fella that dumps his wife to shack up with some tart, then complains when the wife's new lover doesn't meet your approval. LEAVE IT MATE, YOU'VE MOVED ON!!!!! Hahaha. Class That may be a bit true, but you'd knew it is unrealistic if you saw it. By my accounting, benfica has two choices: Sell loads of players to stabilize the budget in the off-season; Be 200M in debt just a mere 2 seasons after I left them with a very healthy budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 You're like a fella that dumps his wife to shack up with some tart, then complains when the wife's new lover doesn't meet your approval. LEAVE IT MATE, YOU'VE MOVED ON!!!!! Just to paint the picture: When I left, turnover was 79M€ and expenditure was 105M€. I balanced the budget by having a net transfer spend of -30M€. I left them a bank balance of 40M€. Right now, in March of the season next to the one I left, turnover is 58M€, which is consistent with the turnover I got, but expenditure is already in 106M€. Net transfer spend is -12M€, but is increasing at a rate of 2,3M€ p/month. Total wage costs from the last season I played were 53M (still, I had to sell to avoid deficit). In March of the 1st AI season, total wage costs are already situated at 79M€ and counting! I was paying 2,3M€ p/month in wages. AI manager has already set the wage bill at 4,5M€ p/month. If I was running on a 30M€ deficit with 2,3M p/month, 4,5M€ is a disaster. They've got loads of monthly installments that will still last for the next 16 months (the january purchases will last a bit more). As they also have some fees to collect, the losses are restricted to 2,3M per month due to transfers. Bank balance is currently 9M€. Was 18M in February. They're losing 9M p/month! I feel like crying... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Yeah I've seen it too on previous versions, and it always breaks my heart. In fact on FM07 I left Fisher Athletic after making them the biggest club in the world so I could go into International Management, and couldn't stand seeing them go bankrupt and relegated that I took over them again after a 2 year gap. Stupid AI managers ruining my brilliantly built up club! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 In one of my saves on 08, I won 7 consecutive titles with FC Bayern and then went to Barca, my replacement finished 6th losing 7 games in the process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moj Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 It does happen in real life however your case is extreme. Iain Dowie ruined Charlton, Queirroz did terrible at Real Madrid, Paul Ince at Blackburn is going to relegate them this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacman1389 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I did the complete opposite actually....well in both fronts. I took over for Avram Grant at Chelsea after a couple seasons at PSV and I was dismayed to see the level of talent and money barely qualifying for the Euro Cup. That year I spend around 100M lbs bringing back Ashley Cole, and buying Micah Richards and Lassana Diarra. I ran away with the title, but soon I left because the club was running out of money after my spending. I quit and went to Lazio, and the manager after me must've shook his fists in anger, as I bled the team of money......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 It does happen in real life however your case is extreme. Iain Dowie ruined Charlton, Queirroz did terrible at Real Madrid, Paul Ince at Blackburn is going to relegate them this year. Mind you, i'm not talking about results. This is all about mental sanity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smellfire Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Some of the financial stuff is mad, got offered a £40m transfer budget with £20m in the bank and a trebled wage budget which the club would never have been able to afford or sustain. Seen decent clubs doing well fall apart with a new manager who buys loads of players, leaves the old ones in the reserves and then lets em go for free or buys players for loads of money then stick them in the reserves when flagged key player or first team and then they get upset and request transfer. Some of the AI is weak, but would be pretty difficult to get it spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treble_yell_:-) Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think a lot of the problem is down to the AI managers transfer related stats being broken, as an example mark hughes will buy average players he doesnt need for 30-40 million in every save ive played, yet he will let elano go for 1.1 million. Someone in the man city thread altered his buying players stat from 15 to 8 and the result was he only bought a couple of players in weak position and for decent amount of £££ Its possible the manager stats for finance are just all wrong and this is what causes managers to do stuff like the OP mentions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Liam Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I've had a couple of games where an AI manager has ruined my hard work very quickly. On FM2005 I got Worcester City 2 consecutive promotions to League Two, and only missed out on promotion from League Two on the final day of the season. I left after about 4 games of the next season and the club got consecutive relegations back to the Conference North/South. On FM2008 I was Tiro Federal in Argentina, a weak side with no money and no fans in the Second Division. I spent 4 years there and in my final half season led them to 3rd in the Premier Division Clausura. We finished 6th in the overall table as well and got a few shock results along the way. I decided to quit and try to make a go of it in Europe and they employed Ossie Ardiles. They subsequently finished bottom in the overall table for the next 3 years which eventually led to relegation when my results were no longer considered in the relegation table. Even worse was that he wasn't sacked, and finished bottom in the first season with virtually the same team, except he'd put our player of the season attacking midfielder with 10 goals, 20 assists and a 7.5 average rating in the reserves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazylen Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 weirdly enough is that realism for me... every manager has his own idea about players... although in FM they are too direct... I had it with Exeter City in 08... Led them to a championship in de CCL2 with a team that had about 16 or 17 players under the age of 21 who had massive potential. that year i moved to Switzerland to take control of Young Boys... The new coach sold almost all the players for freakin bargains... 5 of those players went later on to European giants like Barca and Milan... So to me its like the AI managers sometimes dont have a clue of whats going on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dirtyape Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 that year i moved to Switzerland to take control of Young Boys... Fnaaaaarrr! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 weirdly enough is that realism for me... every manager has his own idea about players... although in FM they are too direct... I had it with Exeter City in 08... Led them to a championship in de CCL2 with a team that had about 16 or 17 players under the age of 21 who had massive potential. that year i moved to Switzerland to take control of Young Boys... The new coach sold almost all the players for freakin bargains... 5 of those players went later on to European giants like Barca and Milan... So to me its like the AI managers sometimes dont have a clue of whats going on... But why is it that they only do so in human managed teams? I haven't ever seen anything like this in AI controlled teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored101 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 reminds me of people telling me about when souness took over as liverpool manager long ago. we had the best team in the league and he did exactrly what the ai manager did he sold all the players brought new ones in trebled the wages and well as you know liverpool won nothing for a long time so very similar to your benfica story so just shows what a lousy manager can do to a league winning team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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