Simple crafting of a 4-3-3 DM

[NineCloudNine]

3 hours ago, Tazzer said:

Hi all,

 

Any idea how I can this tactic to work better... I seem to be relatively strong defensively but struggle to create clear goal scoring opportunities. I do have the majority of possession in most matches.

 

I'm performing about as expected but I am struggling to push on

My usual thought with similar questions is to remove some of the team instructions. You are being very prescriptive in how you want your team to play. That reduces the options available to your players when Plan A doesn’t work.

Try removing the overlap/underlap, move the passing up a notch, allow your team to counter, allow your GK to have more distribution options. You might also step the pressing line back a notch since a very high press just pins the opposition back into a small part of the pitch so there’s no space for you to attack.

There’s nothing obviously problematic about the shape or roles, though it isn’t obvious to me why you have made your right FB an IWB. I’d personally rather have them playing wide to support the winger rather than in an already solid midfield.

A personal preference of mine is not to give wingers an attack duty because I find it makes them one-dimensional - they get to the byline and cross. That might be what you want, but a support duty might see them choose other options sometimes.

[KlaaZ]

10 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

Fun fact, I'm trying something similar in my third season at OHL. Became champions twice in a row, first season with a 3421 formation, second season a 433 DM gegenpress. Preseason of the third was horrible so I'm in the process of building a new 433, will try to make a post later today or tomorrow with more detail. Biggest gripe is that I tend to dominate and usually go ahead but once my opponents come out of their shell, I look too vulnerable at the back.

So to expand on this, here's how I currently set up. 

Spoiler

Considering I've been champions twice in a row, teams tend to sit back more against me and in turn, I find it harder to break them down. On top of that, I had a lot of problems with losing possession and then being countered, which is somewhat better in this setup. But it's still not very potent going forward, and I still feel that I give away too many good chances. It's worth mentioning that my squad is one of the better teams in the mental and technical attributes (especially the latter), but average on the physical end.

The good: Lots of possession, very in control against teams sitting back. Because of this, usually enough to edge games.
The meh: Hard to get the maximum out of my strikers and the RPM, average performances most of the time.
The bad: Chance creation most of the time, in some cases very vulnerable at the back. 

Tips are always welcome. Can always post my starting eleven.

[Karlo]

11 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

So to expand on this, here's how I currently set up. 

  Hide contents

Considering I've been champions twice in a row, teams tend to sit back more against me and in turn, I find it harder to break them down. On top of that, I had a lot of problems with losing possession and then being countered, which is somewhat better in this setup. But it's still not very potent going forward, and I still feel that I give away too many good chances. It's worth mentioning that my squad is one of the better teams in the mental and technical attributes (especially the latter), but average on the physical end.

The good: Lots of possession, very in control against teams sitting back. Because of this, usually enough to edge games.
The meh: Hard to get the maximum out of my strikers and the RPM, average performances most of the time.
The bad: Chance creation most of the time, in some cases very vulnerable at the back. 

Tips are always welcome. Can always post my starting eleven.

 

Looks pretty balanced. Only changes I would make is IWBat > WBat and maybe up the mentality to positive.

[KlaaZ]

31 minutes ago, Karlo said:

 

Looks pretty balanced. Only changes I would make is IWBat > WBat and maybe up the mentality to positive.

I actually played him as a CWB(A) before, but it made me even more vulnerable to counterattacks for some reason. Him sitting narrower really seems to improve my build up play. I'm considering playing Maziz as a counterfooted W(S) to provide more width though. 

I do tend to play with mentality depending on how the match unfolds, but starting on balanced is never a bad idea.  

Just to add to this, it also doesn't help that my backs seemingly never want to cross.

Edited February 16 by KlaaZ

[KlaaZ]

2 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

I actually played him as a CWB(A) before, but it made me even more vulnerable to counterattacks for some reason. Him sitting narrower really seems to improve my build up play. I'm considering playing Maziz as a counterfooted W(S) to provide more width though. 

I do tend to play with mentality depending on how the match unfolds, but starting on balanced is never a bad idea.  

Just to add to this, it also doesn't help that my backs seemingly never want to cross.

Update: Think I may have found the solution, will post details tomorrow when I played a few more games! Can already say it's looking promising though. 🙂

[KlaaZ]

10 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

Update: Think I may have found the solution, will post details tomorrow when I played a few more games! Can already say it's looking promising though. 🙂

As promised! Changed the IWB(A) to a WB(A) with cross more often, gave the WB(S) cross more often too. The CM(S) has move into channels. Removed counterpress, and the distribution directions from my GK, and added get stuck in because we were being too passive without the ball.

Results below, very solid xG for and very little xG against. Still worried about the amount of goals conceded but considering we don't give away a lot of chances, I think that's more down to bad luck. 

[nick1408]

I'm running the following tactic and have been successful but i do have a slight worry:

 

 

The passing is pretty poor and I'd like to tidy it up a little. What would be an adjustment to stop turning the ball over as much? I am winning so maybe it's something I just need to put up with.

 

Another issue I have is a lack of goals from the striker. He was a DLF(A) but I changed tactic (see previous tactic here) and I simply don't think the new tactic suits either Joao Felix or Tommaso Baldanzi who are more creative. I am in the market for a striker but I also think the role may not suit the build-up players as much as it did previously.

Edited March 19 by nick1408

[fraudiola]

FOUR-THREE-THREE with a target man

[Johnny Ace]

I like it, not a huge fan of a lone TF, but he's got plenty of attacking support around him 

[WhiteElf]

https://ibb.co/9c6kW53

https://ibb.co/swsJbyT

My new 433 tactic and the beginning of my career. Let's hope we can advance to the Champions League.

[HanziZoloman]

I want to contribute my 433 as well. We are sitting top of the league in EFL One this year. The years before we were struggling heavily, the tactics really made a difference for us. We started the season with a fluid counter-attacking approach which shown here:

Idea is to have a fluid/ very fluid shape with much (S) roles. We sit in a mid-block with an out-and-out striker waiting for the break. It is also a defense first tactic, note the balanced risk-taking with no counter-press. We sit in a mid-block, not pressing to heavy and making it hard for the opponents to penetrate into that tight woven net of supporting players. The flanks look a bit one dimensional but I mix it a bit up with playing wingers wrong/ right footed or sometimes switching into an IW(S), sometimes I put another player, mainly the Wingers or the Mezzala on attack. I tend to use just FB(S) because we lack fast WB. I have one FB whom I play on (A) occasionally.

In the build up we take our time, the CB and FB positioning themselves carefully before the Keeper is playing the pass. The RPM takes up the ball and is supported by all those (S) roles around him. We progress with standard passing and a bit higher tempo forward into the final third. Usually we win the ball in the middle and then playing it fluid forward.

Spoiler

After gaining momentum and winning a lot of games we switched into a moderate counter-press which is shown here: 

We usually face a back four and pick the less composed CB to press and tackle hard by the PF(A), tight marking the other by the Mezzala who is on (A) because he needs to be very close to the opponents defense line. The Wingers pressing the less composed FB and putting the other one on the outside foot. I want to have the other teams struggle in the build up. The other MC is challenging the midfielders. I need my DM to be a taller jumpy one. The second MC is not a creative one here but a more hard working one, I also play a BWM here. In the build up we take our time again but when everyone is in his place we try to pass and move it around with quick tempo, I want the opponents to chase us around and tire out. 

The Wingers again could easily be IW. Sometimes when the opponents play IWB I like the Winger on that side to play (A), then I put my Striker in a PF(S) role to remain fluid. Again this is a defense first, balanced approach. 

Spoiler

It is working really well for us.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 5 by HanziZoloman

[WhiteElf]

Hello, tactic 433 by me. I took 5th place in the first season and qualified for the UCL.

https://ibb.co/XSgcVJK

https://ibb.co/prhNPxV

[fraudiola]

On 01/05/2024 at 12:23, Johnny Ace said:

I like it, not a huge fan of a lone TF, but he's got plenty of attacking support around him 

The thing is hes gotta be massive, 6'6 type, +15 strength and jumping (depending on the league). My TF nets +40 a season, header after header, even when we don't deserve to win I can count on him scoring a header just by being a giant mfer. Physical attributes are too OP in FM, they overcompensate for lack of other attributes. 

[Captain_T]

Hello,  

Great thread!

I started with Celta Vigo in La Liga using the  tactic shown below (433).

I had good games against Real Madrid (lost 2:3) and FC Sevilla (away - 3:1 win!) with plenty shots on goal from my team.

Then I had realy tough games against Alaves and Mallorca (both 1:1). In general I gave my AP(S) - Sotelo - the PI "roam from position " against Real and Sevilla and as mentioned my team played very welll in possession. 

For my taste there was only a bit too much chaos on the field. So I removed the PI "roam" for Sotelo.

That was the only change, but the following games (Alaves, Mallorca) looked so much different and in possession my team didn't create many opportunities to score.

What do you guys think?

Does this small change in tactic have so much influence?

I also have to say that Real (442) and Sevilla(352) played very narrow with only one wigback/fullback on the flanks and without any wingers (no IF IW W).

Maybe in these games I could overload the flanks and that is why my team played so well in these games? What do you think?

Of course, any comments about the tactic are welcome.

Many thanks in advance!

Edited June 1 by Captain_T