How to make my IF my primary goal scorer.

[awesomeveekthor]

So, I’m thinking of creating a tactic with using the 4231 formation. I wanna create a system that builds up with a 3-2-5 shape. (Sort of like how Manutd play/Ten Hag)And also i want the IF on the left to be my main goalscorer(Rashford). Please id really love u people’s help. If u want further info, I’ll provide.

[Johnny Ace]

Try it out and see @awesomeveekthor

That left side looks well set up for it, you could maybe lose the RPM and focus down the right

[deorvd]

I predict is that there'll be many long shots and less chances created since IF the only one who's running into the box. Let's see how it goes

[awesomeveekthor]

3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Try it out and see @awesomeveekthor

That left side looks well set up for it, you could maybe lose the RPM and focus down the right

Ive tried it… the IF mainly  gets isolated. To be point he turns creator due to bodies all over him. Well, its a win win, but the DLF gets more halfcut/cleancut chances than the IF

 

53 minutes ago, deorvd said:

I predict is that there'll be many long shots and less chances created since IF the only one who's running into the box. Let's see how it goes

You totally right. So what are your suggestions man.

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, awesomeveekthor said:

Ive tried it… the IF mainly  gets isolated. To be point he turns creator due to bodies all over him. Well, its a win win, but the DLF gets more halfcut/cleancut chances than the IF

Just mapping it out in my head, he should have the LCM and left CWB in support of him. You could go full on and try a F(9) or CF(S) with the idea they take defenders away from goal

Without seeing the full tactic, it's hard to tell

Maybe being top heavy is clogging up things for him? A 4-3-3 DM might be worth a try 

[bosque]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Maybe being top heavy is clogging up things for him? A 4-3-3 DM might be worth a try 

I second this. Is hard to see an IF being the primary goalscorer in a 4231. I think that formation works better when you want your number 9 to be your main star.

[awesomeveekthor]

6 hours ago, bosque said:

I second this. Is hard to see an IF being the primary goalscorer in a 4231. I think that formation works better when you want your number 9 to be your main star.

Thats an interesting point.

[awesomeveekthor]

9 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Just mapping it out in my head, he should have the LCM and left CWB in support of him. You could go full on and try a F(9) or CF(S) with the idea they take defenders away from goal

Without seeing the full tactic, it's hard to tell

Maybe being top heavy is clogging up things for him? A 4-3-3 DM might be worth a try 

This is the tactic

[CARRERA]

21 minutes ago, awesomeveekthor said:

This is the tactic

The left side looks good to me. On the right flank however, your team heavily lacks width and penetration. I would suggest change the IWB into a WB on attack. That change will help your team to initiate attacks trough different areas of the pitch.

The team also lacks penetration in central areas, therefore I would switch the role of the AP into an AMa.
I’m also not quite sure about the RPM, as you may want to keep players behind the ball to give your setup a more stable pivot and depth. I would prefer a DLP, but if it works - it works. Those changes should give you a good starting point from where you can move on.

Instruction wise definitely remove the underlaps, as they will ask your wide players to hold onto the ball to wait for other players to make runs, but you want your wide player(s) to be the main goal thread don’t you.

Using a more narrow attacking width will help your IF participate more inside the box instead of cutting back from wide areas.

Oh and for sure work on your tactical familiarity. It’s important for your players to carry out their tasks effectively

Edited April 4, 2023 by CARRERA

[Nick_CB]

6 horas atrás, awesomeveekthor disse:

Esta é a tática

I would make those changes.
-Width by right side with WB
-I would use a Mezzala to give width on the left side

 

 

 

[Finners]

In my experience, the best way to get a wide player scoring goals is to build up as much as possible on the opposite side of the pitch.

You want to overload the right so that you drag the opposition that way and then when the ball is crossed or switched he's in space. 

You kinda have the opposite. You've got your play maker on the left, you've got a wing back on the left, you've got an inverted right back on the right cutting towards the left, an inverted winger on the right cutting towards the left. Your whole team is drifting towards the left side of the park so everyone's going to be bunching up around Rashford and closing the space. You want to flip it and stretch the game the other way.

I'd have maybe Fernandes as a mezzala on an attack duty on the right side coupled with a right footer like Sancho as a winger over there on a support duty, back it up with Dalot maybe also as a full back on an attack duty over there. Really make your right hand side quite aggressive and attacking. On the left I'd probably just have a vanilla CM and full back both on support duties. 

I'd definitely move someone out of the AMC position and really encourage your central striker to properly drop in. Be careful of the DLF. Remember that despite it's name, it has Moves In To Channels as part of it's hard coded instructions and that it'll often be looking to move in to the same spaces as Rashford, just from deeper. If you swap it out for a False 9 that'll typically look to do the opposite, it'll start higher up and move deeper away from the centre backs hopefully bringing them with.

All of this is about trying to get Rashford in to as much space as possible on his own out on that side. A good guide for you, although it's a few years old now, might be the Hammer & Anvil guide that I think is floating around that might actually, if memory serves, have been about Rashford.

https://dictatethegame.com/young-devils-creating-overloads-2-0/

I always found the Enganche to be a waste of time in that system and always ended up making my own adjustments but the fundamentals it talks about in terms of creating overloads one side to switch to the other look like they'd be important to you.

 

TLDR: Instead of focusing on the left to feed the left - focus on the RIGHT to feed the left.

[awesomeveekthor]

23 hours ago, Finners said:

In my experience, the best way to get a wide player scoring goals is to build up as much as possible on the opposite side of the pitch.

You want to overload the right so that you drag the opposition that way and then when the ball is crossed or switched he's in space. 

You kinda have the opposite. You've got your play maker on the left, you've got a wing back on the left, you've got an inverted right back on the right cutting towards the left, an inverted winger on the right cutting towards the left. Your whole team is drifting towards the left side of the park so everyone's going to be bunching up around Rashford and closing the space. You want to flip it and stretch the game the other way.

I'd have maybe Fernandes as a mezzala on an attack duty on the right side coupled with a right footer like Sancho as a winger over there on a support duty, back it up with Dalot maybe also as a full back on an attack duty over there. Really make your right hand side quite aggressive and attacking. On the left I'd probably just have a vanilla CM and full back both on support duties. 

I'd definitely move someone out of the AMC position and really encourage your central striker to properly drop in. Be careful of the DLF. Remember that despite it's name, it has Moves In To Channels as part of it's hard coded instructions and that it'll often be looking to move in to the same spaces as Rashford, just from deeper. If you swap it out for a False 9 that'll typically look to do the opposite, it'll start higher up and move deeper away from the centre backs hopefully bringing them with.

All of this is about trying to get Rashford in to as much space as possible on his own out on that side. A good guide for you, although it's a few years old now, might be the Hammer & Anvil guide that I think is floating around that might actually, if memory serves, have been about Rashford.

https://dictatethegame.com/young-devils-creating-overloads-2-0/

I always found the Enganche to be a waste of time in that system and always ended up making my own adjustments but the fundamentals it talks about in terms of creating overloads one side to switch to the other look like they'd be important to you.

 

TLDR: Instead of focusing on the left to feed the left - focus on the RIGHT to feed the left.

Interesting view…

Totally, want i’d want. But, that means he’ll be less involved in building up in the final third…right?

[Lordluap]

Shift the striker to STCR position, makes a bit more space for the IF to move in to.

[Finners]

11 hours ago, awesomeveekthor said:

Interesting view…

Totally, want i’d want. But, that means he’ll be less involved in building up in the final third…right?

 

Who are we talking about here, Rashford? If so yeah but I mean, to be perfectly blunt, you really either want him involved in the build up or finishing.

It's not impossible to build a system where he does both but it isn't really likely. Not in the sense that he does much more than maybe lay the ball off to someone before legging it in to the box. 

When you think about the kind of goals Rashford scores for United, what springs to mind the most? For me it's him running in to open space getting on to a ball in behind. Sancho has superb vision and passing and good crossing, Fernandes even more so, both are right footed. You want them teaming up down the right hand side, ideally overlapping off one-another to be able to put crosses and cross-field passes over to Rashford.

This is a tactic I use a lot, it's largely borrowed from something I found Cleon posted a couple of years ago when I was trying to make my Mezzala the MVP of my side.

Now this is a tiny bit different to what you're asking for because in the above, the Poacher is the main target not the left winger but the core fundamentals of the build up are similar. Goals come ultimately from one of two places. Either the Mezzala, RW and FB(A) all combine taking it in turns to overlap and overload with one another down the right before crossing / through-balling, lofted passing the striker in on goal OR they switch the play to LW who is nearly always in miles of space and he crosses for the striker to score. In either instance, MOST of the build is done either in the middle of the park or out on the right.

LW got 12 goals and 16 assists last season, the Mezzala 11 and 18, the RW 15 and 16. Striker got 53 & 7.

It's important that both the Mezzala and Winger are right footed. 

Where you want to tweak this is in having a striker that's going to drop in towards the midfield when the team comes forward that leaves space for the IF(A) on the left to cut in behind him and be the target for either the Mez (A) to thread a through ball or the winger to hit him with a cross.

In my experience, DLF's tend to like to sit a bit deeper, receive the ball but then look to get back in the box themselves and score. What you probably want is more of a False 9 which would probably do wonders for your Mezzala (Bruno?) as well who will thrive in getting forward in to the space he leaves. 

I'd imagine with those tweaks a good AML would fairly easily be your primary goal scorer. What I would say though is that in current iterations of the Match Engine, you're always going to struggle to make a wide player outscore a top central one. Getting a proper Salah / Mane style threat going in FM is not impossible but it is very challenging.

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, Finners said:

 

Who are we talking about here, Rashford? If so yeah but I mean, to be perfectly blunt, you really either want him involved in the build up or finishing.

It's not impossible to build a system where he does both but it isn't really likely. Not in the sense that he does much more than maybe lay the ball off to someone before legging it in to the box. 

When you think about the kind of goals Rashford scores for United, what springs to mind the most? For me it's him running in to open space getting on to a ball in behind. Sancho has superb vision and passing and good crossing, Fernandes even more so, both are right footed. You want them teaming up down the right hand side, ideally overlapping off one-another to be able to put crosses and cross-field passes over to Rashford.

This is a tactic I use a lot, it's largely borrowed from something I found Cleon posted a couple of years ago when I was trying to make my Mezzala the MVP of my side.

Now this is a tiny bit different to what you're asking for because in the above, the Poacher is the main target not the left winger but the core fundamentals of the build up are similar. Goals come ultimately from one of two places. Either the Mezzala, RW and FB(A) all combine taking it in turns to overlap and overload with one another down the right before crossing / through-balling, lofted passing the striker in on goal OR they switch the play to LW who is nearly always in miles of space and he crosses for the striker to score. In either instance, MOST of the build is done either in the middle of the park or out on the right.

LW got 12 goals and 16 assists last season, the Mezzala 11 and 18, the RW 15 and 16. Striker got 53 & 7.

It's important that both the Mezzala and Winger are right footed. 

Where you want to tweak this is in having a striker that's going to drop in towards the midfield when the team comes forward that leaves space for the IF(A) on the left to cut in behind him and be the target for either the Mez (A) to thread a through ball or the winger to hit him with a cross.

In my experience, DLF's tend to like to sit a bit deeper, receive the ball but then look to get back in the box themselves and score. What you probably want is more of a False 9 which would probably do wonders for your Mezzala (Bruno?) as well who will thrive in getting forward in to the space he leaves. 

I'd imagine with those tweaks a good AML would fairly easily be your primary goal scorer. What I would say though is that in current iterations of the Match Engine, you're always going to struggle to make a wide player outscore a top central one. Getting a proper Salah / Mane style threat going in FM is not impossible but it is very challenging.

Have you tried matching the roles on the MEZ and W?

[Cloud9]

On 04/04/2023 at 06:27, awesomeveekthor said:

Ive tried it… the IF mainly  gets isolated. To be point he turns creator due to bodies all over him. Well, its a win win, but the DLF gets more halfcut/cleancut chances than the IF

 

You totally right. So what are your suggestions man.

If he's getting isolated, RPM and CWB roam from position behind him. Having them in roles that don't might a more reliable build up phase.

Also, with Rashfords pace: you could try asking him to stay wider as an IF(a)? Haven't tinkered with that on my own but could prove interesting. Not sure if it would cut down on his goal scoring too much. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Cloud9