European Spot Playoff

[ThatsWhyIsEdit]

So I'm trying to introduce a playoff in the top league in Scotland I've created in advanced rules - with the winner of that playoff getting the last remaining spot for European football.

This is much like they do in Holland, where they have:

(Taken from Wiki)

Playoffs[edit]

European competition[edit]

Position	Playoff	Qualification to
1st	–	Champions League group stage
2nd	–	Champions League third qualifying round of the League Path.
3rd	–	Europa League play-off round
4th	–	Conference League third qualifying round
5th–8th/6th-9th	Europa League	4th vs 7th and 5th vs 6th or 5th vs 8th and 6th vs 7th; the two winners play each other to qualify for: Europa Conference League second qualifying round
KNVB Cup winners	–	Europa League play-off round (group stage if the Europa Conference League winners have already qualified for the UCL through their domestic league)

 

I looked at the Dutch leagues under Advanced Rules so I could basically copy and paste. But there's a hidden stage after league (0), there's euro (1) - hidden. And there's nothing under that section that isn't faded so tells me nothing how to set it up. (Where their relegation playoff shows everything how it's set up)

So, long story short, how can I get a playoff in my Scottish top flight with the winner getting the lowest European place?

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Take a look at the Northern Irish Premiership. They have the same amount of teams as the SPL. From memory there is a European stage that is hidden. But copying it (as amount of teams are the same) should give you the desired outcome. There is a league split after 33 games, which I think Scotland have too.

[ThatsWhyIsEdit]

On 04/05/2023 at 10:11, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

Take a look at the Northern Irish Premiership. They have the same amount of teams as the SPL. From memory there is a European stage that is hidden. But copying it (as amount of teams are the same) should give you the desired outcome. There is a league split after 33 games, which I think Scotland have too.

Thanks, but I've already amended the Scottish league so it has 18 teams and no split.

I've mirrored the Eredivisie advanced rules almost to a tee (don't have their relegation playoff) including the default stage and euro teams stage. It creates the league fine, it creates the playoff games fine, but the playoff winner doesn't get it's European place. Even though it's included in Continental Cup rules under Other Stage Rules and as I say I mirrored how the Dutch league is. Not sure what I can do - everything works as it's meant to apart from the Euro place going to the winner of the playoff.

Is there more that can be done to dictate Euro qualification spots that I'm missing?

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Have you got the Fate Actions filled in for the euro playoff winner going into the ECL?

[ThatsWhyIsEdit]

19 hours ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

Have you got the Fate Actions filled in for the euro playoff winner going into the ECL?

I did, yes. I've had a fiddle with a few more of the Other Stage Rules and previous stages and I *think* I've got it to work. But I need to test a few seasons, as now it's giving the UECL place to a playoff winner, but the playoffs are skipping a team that should be in them. Maybe because when the league finishes the spaces get allocated as:

1st = CL

2nd = CL

Cup = EL

3rd = UECL

4th = UECL

So when the playoffs happen, they're between 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th - the playoff winners win and get the last UECL place (instead of 4th) meaning it's now:

1st = CL

2nd = CL

Cup = EL

3rd = UECL

Playoff = UECL

But that means 4th never had an opportunity to get a euro spot from the playoff. If the cup is won by a team in 1st, 2nd or 3rd then 4th will get their UECL place anyway and the playoffs being between 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th is perfect. But just need to fiddle about with it now to ensure all teams get their euro spots they should and that no one is screwed by the system (like 4th would be in the above scenario).

Edited May 6, 2023 by ThatsWhyIsEdit

[themodelcitizen]

Do the Dutch rules know to "adjust" the playoffs to have 4th-7th instead of 5th-8th in that scenario? Is that the purpose of the hidden stage? If not, then as Euro coefficients rise and fall the playoffs might be messed up (if, say, there are 2 or 3 Euro spots to hand out instead of 0 or 1).

If that's OK, you can get away with just having the playoffs as a separate cup stage, and under the league stage, in "general" use the "Stage Flag" "Use Playoff Rankings". Under "League Settings" use the "Other League Stage Flag" "Don't set league positions for ranking levels". If you use "Ranking Levels" then set it so 5th to 8th all have highest ranking 4, lowest ranking 6.

Use "Qualification Rules" or whatever you would normally to send 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th to the playoff stage. Hand out rankings here using "ranking levels" so that the playoff winner gets ranking 4, playoff final loser gets ranking 5, semifinal losers get ranking 6. Unless you want a playoff "third place game" to account for future coefficient changes, in which case you would rank accordingly.

Make sense? Somehow got this to have a semblance of working for my San Marino DB and its European playoff

[ThatsWhyIsEdit]

2 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Do the Dutch rules know to "adjust" the playoffs to have 4th-7th instead of 5th-8th in that scenario? Is that the purpose of the hidden stage? If not, then as Euro coefficients rise and fall the playoffs might be messed up (if, say, there are 2 or 3 Euro spots to hand out instead of 0 or 1).

If that's OK, you can get away with just having the playoffs as a separate cup stage, and under the league stage, in "general" use the "Stage Flag" "Use Playoff Rankings". Under "League Settings" use the "Other League Stage Flag" "Don't set league positions for ranking levels". If you use "Ranking Levels" then set it so 5th to 8th all have highest ranking 4, lowest ranking 6.

Use "Qualification Rules" or whatever you would normally to send 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th to the playoff stage. Hand out rankings here using "ranking levels" so that the playoff winner gets ranking 4, playoff final loser gets ranking 5, semifinal losers get ranking 6. Unless you want a playoff "third place game" to account for future coefficient changes, in which case you would rank accordingly.

Make sense? Somehow got this to have a semblance of working for my San Marino DB and its European playoff

The Dutch league does do those adjustments and I entered them into the Scottish league - BUT - I only amended for no. of European places (Scotland has 5 as opposed to Holland's 6 spots), so I'm now thinking/realising when I've picked spots (3 to 6) I should be doing 2 to 5, as the editor thinks of positions as 0, 1, 2, 3 etc as opposed to 1, 2, 3, 4.

If that's right then the following finish:

1. 1st
2. 2nd
3. 3rd
4. 4th

As far as the editor is concerned, it's:

0. 1st
1. 2nd
2. 3rd
3. 4th

I'll make the adjustment under Qualification rules under League settings to 2-5 instead of 3-6 (and will also do this under additional helpers) and I'll see if that sorts it out.

[ThatsWhyIsEdit]

And it worked! Not sure anything I'll do playing the actual game will live up to the feeling of accomplishment I currently have!