Unlocking defenses/ creating space

[eXistenZ]

I picked up a savegame after a few months of inactivity and (first season in league 1) and while most things are going fine, I tend to struggle with bottom half teams. Having lots of possession(65%) and pas completion(and a reasonable amount of final third passes). but actually a very limited amount of shots or even highlights (and even then most highlights tend to be a free kick or throwin from the opponent. Games like these tend to come down to a setpiece, which isnt sustainable.

I know these teams tend to close shop and thats where I struggle. I know my striker isnt much of a looker in terms of physicals and technicals (and the hair department), but when given the space behind the defence, he defo knows what to do with it, resulting in a topscorer title last season (but his ability was too good for a league down anyway). This season he is struggling, and alternates a good match with 3 very bad ones. While being consistent. The cruel joke him being consistently poor...

 

So my question is, which tweaks should I make to this tactic to give him that space he can thrive in? Given his technicals and limited strength, i tend to play him as an AF or PFa. Roles that not necessarily are included much in the buildup, which usually tanks their rating even more

(LB has get further forward PI but i didnt want to make him a FBa as his crossing is poor and Nathan isnt tall anyway. AM has take more risks)

In games where there is a lock on the door I tend to go more wide (but not a fan of that as i dont want to encourage crossing) or with a higher tempo, but they dont seem to help much

[eXistenZ]

Nobody that can tell me how to convert high possessiona dn final third passes in actual highlights?

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Nobody that can tell me how to convert high possessiona dn final third passes in actual highlights?

Do you have players in your squad capable of breaking down opposition? 

There's also an over reliance on your front line to create, the defensive unit are all in conservative roles. 

Hit Crosses Early on a low tempo with a wide setting is a good starting point against teams who are sitting deep.

[eXistenZ]

7 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Do you have players in your squad capable of breaking down opposition? 

There's also an over reliance on your front line to create, the defensive unit are all in conservative roles. 

Hit Crosses Early on a low tempo with a wide setting is a good starting point against teams who are sitting deep.

so just throwing more men forward?

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

so just throwing more men forward?

If you're stretching the pitch having players make runs from deep can be really effective, but It's more setting up your side in a way that can dismantle and pull out of their defensive shape. Adding in some ball progressing quality to your defensive third will mean they can either 1. carry the ball forward 2. play in an attacking player. It makes your attack more dyanmic, and not just a stop the front 4 (which is pretty easy to do).

You can turn the tempo up in sections, but it looks like you're just going for it and getting worn down on them. Counter press is something I'd only use for sections of the match for example. 

For roles I would suggest adding in a BPD, having the left fullback play as a wingback, and replacing the BWM of the double pivot with a more progressive player (perhaps an SV would pair nicely with the winger). An AP in the 10 will also look to pick the lock, especially If he has the technical ability/traits to do so.

At low level football, running a strike partnership can also make your life a lot easier. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Cloud9

[eXistenZ]

5 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

If you're stretching the pitch having players make runs from deep can be really effective, but It's more setting up your side in a way that can dismantle and pull out of their defensive shape. Adding in some ball progressing quality to your defensive third will mean they can either 1. carry the ball forward 2. play in an attacking player. It makes your attack more dyanmic, and not just a stop the front 4 (which is pretty easy to do).

You can turn the tempo up in sections, but it looks like you're just going for it and getting worn down on them. Counter press is something I'd only use for sections of the match for example. 

For roles I would suggest adding in a BPD, having the left fullback play as a wingback, and replacing the BWM of the double pivot with a more progressive player (perhaps an SV would pair nicely with the winger). An AP in the 10 will also look to pick the lock, especially If he has the technical ability/traits to do so.

At low level football, running a strike partnership can also make your life a lot easier. 

Oh id love to play a BPD to break the lines but none of my defenders have passing or vision that is vaguely acceptable for this level. I do already have the left fullback on get further forward (didnt want to put him on attack as his crossing is weak and my strikers arent tall).

Likewise, ive put the more playmaker PI already on the amc.

 

What is the reasoning behind not counterpressing?

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Oh id love to play a BPD to break the lines but none of my defenders have passing or vision that is vaguely acceptable for this level. I do already have the left fullback on get further forward (didnt want to put him on attack as his crossing is weak and my strikers arent tall).

Likewise, ive put the more playmaker PI already on the amc.

 

What is the reasoning behind not counterpressing?

Hm if you don't have the players for that, got pick up a cheap over 30 TF. Tons available for lower league football, all he needs to be is tall and strong and pair him with your striker. That's a fail safe way to score goals in lower league football. 

Counterpressing exhausts the players and also it just pulls your players around the pitch a bunch. If they're sitting deep there's less space to exploit when the balls won back, so patiently trying to break them down is generally more effective anyways. Going full tilt means the longer you don't score the weaker you become, while they remain fresh. Try to find 10-15 minute sections of the match in which to use it (I watch the match momentum for this).

This years FM you need to manage fitness levels a lot more than previously

[Rashidi]

Looking at your tactic, while fullbacks are a safe role, the distance they need to cover is far. Most likely these roles will play inside passes to get the ball up. They will pass, move and then receive again. Their only realistic passing option are the DMs. With the front roles all on attack duty, balls might get hoofed simply because they aren't enough passing options.

My suggestion is to play the AM as an AP on support, that way he might drop a bit deeper and present himself as a passing option. I am also more inclined to use Complete wingbacks because they roam, which encourages them to come inside sometimes or go wide. If defensive cohesion is your issue, then consider the use of wingbacks on defend duty, they too are an underrated option. These roles do go down the flanks and attack them against sides who opt to sit and defend.8

[Draakon]

Couple of things:

1) Not sure if you should 'counter-attack' when you're pressing high and mentality is positive (meaning you're slight favourite?). It might prevent building up good attacks.

2) You need a bit more bodies forward. I play similar formation, but one full-back is WBs and other is FBa (when I'm favourite), so they join the attack sooner. Also, you might switch your BWMs to BBMs when you need a goal and switch to him back to BWMs when you have the lead (or play against bigger teams).

[Johnny Ace]

Agree with @Rashidi, having 3 out of your top 4 on Attack looks to compress space in the final third rather than create it. Having at least one more of them not look to get so forward early and be a little less attack minded will help link up play 

You have a fairly solid and safe double pivot with solid and safe fullback roles, I'd either keep the double pivot and look to get one of the fullbacks further forward or keep the safe fullbacks and ask more from the DMs.  

[eXistenZ]

On 11/06/2023 at 22:29, Draakon said:

Couple of things:

1) Not sure if you should 'counter-attack' when you're pressing high and mentality is positive (meaning you're slight favourite?). It might prevent building up good attacks.

2) You need a bit more bodies forward. I play similar formation, but one full-back is WBs and other is FBa (when I'm favourite), so they join the attack sooner. Also, you might switch your BWMs to BBMs when you need a goal and switch to him back to BWMs when you have the lead (or play against bigger teams).

 

I did stick get further forward PI's on the LB. Didnt trust him enough with pure wingback instructions, as the longer you go on into saves, good wingbacks seem to become rare (especially at this tier with no money)

On 10/06/2023 at 19:19, Cloud9 said:

Hm if you don't have the players for that, got pick up a cheap over 30 TF. Tons available for lower league football, all he needs to be is tall and strong and pair him with your striker. That's a fail safe way to score goals in lower league football. 

Counterpressing exhausts the players and also it just pulls your players around the pitch a bunch. If they're sitting deep there's less space to exploit when the balls won back, so patiently trying to break them down is generally more effective anyways. Going full tilt means the longer you don't score the weaker you become, while they remain fresh. Try to find 10-15 minute sections of the match in which to use it (I watch the match momentum for this).

This years FM you need to manage fitness levels a lot more than previously

Bad news, didnt even have the money for that at the time

Good news, season ended with promotion (mostly due to 22 out of 46 clean sheets), but before I could implement most advice here. And due to personal changes I made the switch to the 424. The loaned AMC didnt return and my backup amc I sold.

predicted last in the championship. Wish me good luck.  Hoping this   will prevent relegation.

 

 

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

 

I did stick get further forward PI's on the LB. Didnt trust him enough with pure wingback instructions, as the longer you go on into saves, good wingbacks seem to become rare (especially at this tier with no money)

Bad news, didnt even have the money for that at the time

Good news, season ended with promotion (mostly due to 22 out of 46 clean sheets), but before I could implement most advice here. And due to personal changes I made the switch to the 424. The loaned AMC didnt return and my backup amc I sold.

predicted last in the championship. Wish me good luck.  Hoping this   will prevent relegation.

 

 

Like the changes and congrats on promotion 

I'd consider going more direct with a 4-2-4, the two man midfield might make shorter transitions a bit tricky and you've got the TF to knock the ball down for you up top. I'd also swap the pivot to DLP(s) and BWM(d), it will give you two holding players and it's just a really nice combination of roles (1 destroyer, 1 creator).

[eXistenZ]

For some reason I always do better with 2 striker formations compared to 1. Feared to struggle for survival, but finished actually just outside the playoff spots. Although it has to be said just two teams won more than half their games, and just barely.

 

What probably amazed (and keeps on puzzling) me, is this guy. Recommended on a free, and got highest average rating in his first season with 7 goals and 9 assists in 37 league matches of the whole competition. yet he barely has a relevant mental stat more than 10. He isnt even judged as consistent. He is mainly tall and fast. and thats it.

Also wierdly he didnt win signing of the season despite being player of the season....

 

 

 

EDIT: also, on a nontactics related issue, im losing 500k a month because i have a stadium of 5k we dont own

Edited June 26, 2023 by eXistenZ

[toshimitzou1]

7 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

He isnt even judged as consistent. He is mainly tall and fast. and thats it.

Consistency only affects technical and mental stats so his biggest strengths (his pace , and jumping) are always a threat. Furthermore, the role and tactical set-up are really well suited to the player. DLP plays a long ball out wide: he's tall and brave = header won. Defender clears it long? Same again Can you get him in down the wing in behind? Yes. Cane he run and cross? Yes.

He is a perfect Winger-Attack. If you could get a better player in this position your team performance would really improve!!!