Messing up morale in order to make the game harder?

[danej]

I still feel like the biggest problem with FM23 (and FM21 + 22 which I also played) is that the game is way too easy.

 

Many seem to share this view. See for example these threads:

 

 

I totally agree with SergeiG, overall the game is way too easy, and it is a shame. It ruins an otherwise amazing game, to the extent where I don't know whether I will keep playing it in future.

 

Anyway, my dilemma is: How to make the game sufficiently challenging?

My goal being that there is a real risk of getting sacked, and on average performing on par with board expectations or only marginally better.

AND at the same time don't lose a lot of realism because of various random restrictions in order to make the game harder.

 

So, recently I have been thinking - perhaps a solution is to deliberately mess up morale to an extent? I have seen several people calling FM "Morale Manager" and I have the same impression to an extent, morale seems important for performance.

 

Besides, improving and maintaining a good squad morale quickly becomes monotonous, robotic, predictable clicking, you just click on the options that makes sense and that you know usually work. It probably wouldn't ruin realism too much to mess up morale to an extent.

 

Perhaps an idea is to cast dice or something similar - to an extent picking random, and often very bad, responses in potentially morale boosting interactions with the squad or individual players.

 

Similarly I have been thinking: Another twist could be to never interact with players. And also perhaps never holding team meetings.

 

Anyway, in theory I really like the idea casting dice regarding choosing potentially stupid options in interactive talks, and thus occasionally mess up morale. It would in theory make the saves more unpredictable, more up and down, where morale could at any point go from good to bad or the opposite, and thus also performances.

 

Any experiences or input regarding this?

[danej]

Update: I started trying casting dice with the initial team talk, just started a new Man Utd save.

 

I ruled out certain options that were obviously crazy and roled a die between the rest. Don't really remember what I told the squad in that initial team talk. However, the end result was mixed, probably marginally positive. Anyway, I really like it so far. Now some players have "yellow" or "orange" morale initially, and not all green as usual.

 

Out of curiosity I also checked another random team, AI managed Arsenal. They have similar initial morale. At least half their players having green morale, but also many in the yellow and orange region.

 

I know this is a poor sample size, and my idea of occasionally messing with morale to a varying extent feels great so far. Also because I think that is what happens with AI-led teams. I would think that AI led teams rarely have brilliant morale where almost all players are in the green. They probably ususally have mixed and changing morale.

 

So if you are like me, and one of your main aims is to try and avoid being too succesful, without at the same time sacrificing a lot of realism due to weird restriction, perhaps something like this is the way to go - keeping your player/team morale a bit erratic, so that you don't have an edge over AI in this regard.

 

In any case I look forward to experimenting more with this, feels like I am on to something.

And as mentioned, any input is greatly appreciated.

 

Btw. I guess I partially got this idea because I am currently rereading "The Dice Man" by George Cockcroft / Luke Rhinehart. A fascinating book that I also read in my youth 20-25 years ago.

[Draakon]

The game is not too easy.

You're making it too easy for yourself.

You're selecting a top league top club to manage, with great resources (transfer budget, staff, youth system) and you have plenty of previous experience with FM so i assume your tactics, team talks etc. are quite spot on to begin with. In those conditions the game is supposed to be easy!

 

You could do a lot differently to make the game more challenging - choose a different personality and background (sunday league footballer), start without reputation or badges, or just start from a lower division club without proper coaching staff or stadium - it gets more challenging and takes more time to reach higher.

I agree that "game too easy" could be said if almost anybody can take some League 2 team to Champions League winners with less than 10 seasons, but starting with ManU and then complaining that you're winning most of the games ... that's kind of expectation for ManU, isn't it?

[janrzm]

I feel like the whole moral thing is broken (thinking back to a few weeks ago when fining a squad player in my team generated 22 unhappy players and tanked morale.....) so there's a definite irony in using something that's broken to fix something that's well, broken......

[danej]

1 hour ago, Draakon said:

The game is not too easy.

You're making it too easy for yourself.

You're selecting a top league top club to manage, with great resources (transfer budget, staff, youth system) and you have plenty of previous experience with FM so i assume your tactics, team talks etc. are quite spot on to begin with. In those conditions the game is supposed to be easy!

 

You could do a lot differently to make the game more challenging - choose a different personality and background (sunday league footballer), start without reputation or badges, or just start from a lower division club without proper coaching staff or stadium - it gets more challenging and takes more time to reach higher.

I agree that "game too easy" could be said if almost anybody can take some League 2 team to Champions League winners with less than 10 seasons, but starting with ManU and then complaining that you're winning most of the games ... that's kind of expectation for ManU, isn't it?

I deliberately do most things quite poorly to try to avoid massively overacheving. For example I leave team talks (and most things) to staff, to not game the system.

 

I talk of relative succes. Compared to how AI does with the same team. AI led Man Utd would on average finish perhaps 3rd - 5th in the Prem I would think. Worse than Man City and Liverpool, among the best of the rest. I think that a lot of players playing the game, most perhaps, can do better than that with Man Utd, with very little effort.

 

Similarly I think that lots of people playing the game, most perhaps, can get a random League Two team to at least the CL knockout stages in 10 seasons, not far from what you describe.

 

Perhaps SI wants the game to be easy. I imagine that they do pay a lot of attention to how they can make money. How can the please the largest possible number of players, so that they will buy future versions of the game as well. Perhaps most people playing the game like easy succes. Although on an unconscious level, not admitting to oneself how easy the game is. Perhaps most people get a kick out of the massive succes than can be had in the game if one wishes to perform as well as possible.

[danej]

1 hour ago, janrzm said:

I feel like the whole moral thing is broken (thinking back to a few weeks ago when fining a squad player in my team generated 22 unhappy players and tanked morale.....) so there's a definite irony in using something that's broken to fix something that's well, broken......

Yeah. My impression is that morale has much too much impact on performances. Great morale and your team usually massively overperforms, and the opposite.

 

A bad thing about morale is that it feels like robotic clicking. A meaningless waste of time. You learn which options work in player interactions, team talks etc. and you routinesly click in the perfect options all the time. Click click click. What's the point. Except from creating an illusion to oneself that I am this amazing manager, another Alex Ferguson or Pep.

[Marko1989]

There are many ways to make the game hard for yourself, SI does not need to increase the difficulty because it can be too much for new players, and it is good that we can choose how difficult will be 

1.) Don't use big teams, as Man Utd with a lot of money, that makes the game boring and easy. Pick lower-league teams and aim for a Champions League win

2.) Don't use tactics that simply "work". By that I mean; one example - For some reason, it seems that the Inverted Wing Back role works better than Wing Back or C Wing Back. Don't use it. ( maybe in 2023 it is a different situation but at least in 2021 inverted wingbacks are amazing )  if they have good passing attributes and long throws, they can be unreal. Use different roles. 

Also, for some reason for example in the first version of FM 2021 inside forwards are bad. If they don't have World Class attributes they will play badly. They will dribble like crazy but finishing from them is poor. Wingers are much better, both with assists and finishing. So use inside forward role for example, because they will not perform great unless they are world-class

I don't have that much time to play it anymore so I don't have issues with the game being easy to me so this is how I build my tactics - I am not trying to replicate any known playing style, I am not trying to make the tactic that makes sense. I am using tactics that work, with trial and error. Constantly changing things until something works even if it does not make any sense. For example, in FM 2021 defensive midfielder is not needed at all. I have never used a ball-winning midfielder or DM role because they are simply not needed, I will go with an attacking CM or some type of Playmaker. And that simply works in the Engine. Many big teams in reality have DM who is there to tackle etc, so don't try to exploit the Engine, with roles and tactics that work, try keeping it logical because in many, many cases tactics that make no sense are better in FM than realistic tactics.  Like strikerless tactic in one of the FM versions etc. So try to make it as close as possible in real life.

3.) Don't exploit transfer marked as I do. During the season I would constantly offer small amounts of money for a player I want to buy, even when I don't have any money, just because I know that will upset the player and he will ask to leave thus at the end of the season I will get him for the less money. So I am making AI player to be unsettled for no reason.

4.) Again, don't use big teams with a lot of money, it is boring, and it is like playing the game on a very easy setting if you chose teams like Man Utd or Arsenal

Edited June 12, 2023 by Marko1989

[danej]

13 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

There are many ways to make the game hard for yourself, SI does not need to increase the difficulty because it can be too much for new players, and it is good that we can choose how difficult will be 

1.) Don't use big teams, as Man Utd with a lot of money, that makes the game boring and easy. Pick lower-league teams and aim for a Champions League win

2.) Don't use tactics that simply "work". By that I mean; one example - For some reason, it seems that the Inverted Wing Back role works better than Wing Back or C Wing Back. Don't use it. ( maybe in 2023 it is a different situation but at least in 2021 inverted wingbacks are amazing )  if they have good passing attributes and long throws, they can be unreal. Use different roles. 

Also, for some reason for example in the first version of FM 2021 inside forwards are bad. If they don't have World Class attributes they will play badly. They will dribble like crazy but finishing from them is poor. Wingers are much better, both with assists and finishing. So use inside forward role for example, because they will not perform great unless they are world-class

I don't have that much time to play it anymore so I don't have issues with the game being easy to me so this is how I build my tactics - I am not trying to replicate any known playing style, I am not trying to make the tactic that makes sense. I am using tactics that work, with trial and error. Constantly changing things until something works even if it does not make any sense. For example, in FM 2021 defensive midfielder is not needed at all. I have never used a ball-winning midfielder or DM role because they are simply not needed, I will go with an attacking CM or some type of Playmaker. And that simply works in the Engine. Many big teams in reality have DM who is there to tackle etc, so don't try to exploit the Engine, with roles and tactics that work, try keeping it logical because in many, many cases tactics that make no sense are better in FM than realistic tactics.  Like strikerless tactic in one of the FM versions etc. So try to make it as close as possible in real life.

3.) Don't exploit transfer marked as I do. During the season I would constantly offer small amounts of money for a player I want to buy, even when I don't have any money, just because I know that will upset the player and he will ask to leave thus at the end of the season I will get him for the less money. So I am making AI player to be unsettled for no reason.

4.) Again, don't use big teams with a lot of money, it is boring, and it is like playing the game on a very easy setting if you chose teams like Man Utd or Arsenal

I disagree regarding the "don't pick big clubs" idea. My impression is that it doesn't really matter whether you pick a small or a big club. I am talking about relative overperformance. Performing much better than board expectations, media expectations, or how the same club would do if it had an AI manager for that given season. Once you learn the basics of the game, it is very easy to consistenly and massively overperform. Relatively overperform that is. Picking a small club will just delay the inevitable (succes at the grand stage might happen 10 years later with a small club than with a big club). Personally I find it just as boring and silly to get promoted in season 1-2 with some Vanarama North/South that was supposed to be one of the worst in the league, as I find it equally boring and silly to win the Prem in season 1 or 2 with Man Utd, a club that is after all much worse than Man City and Liverpool in FM23 (btw a good thing that Man Utd finally got a nerf, I believe that Utd were as good as City and Liverpool in many FMs before FM23 which was really silly).

 

Otherwise I mostly agree I think. And as mentioned in other comments above, I am not certain whether difficulty levels are important. In any case I agree that a good thing about the game is that there are lots of ways of playing it, you can tailor it to your own prefences. Like my current experiments with occasionally messing up morale which so far feels great, making results more erratic and like IRL.

Edited June 13, 2023 by danej