i had 2 du this Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Originally posted by rashidi1:I set my closing down to own area, for literally the whole team, except for the strikers, and the wingers. Closing down settings tell your team where to begin. The higher they are the more likely you are to lose defensive cohesion. Even when the team had a DM etc... or is this just for 442 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'm talking about a 442 here...I would expect the DM to have higher closing down instructions but definitely not all over the pitch. Like I said before you could set him to own area and then use the OI to close specific players down heavily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i had 2 du this Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Okay so i am still trying to gte my head around OI here because they havent really ever helped me so please Rash will you give me an example of what to do in my next match against Newcastle. Line Ups Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i had 2 du this Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Rash will you please delete the picture of the scout report as it has my name on thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 Yours is a 424 defends like a 442...:-( hate formation. If I were the AI I would Tight mark your wingers, they would be nullified. Against Newcastle I would try TM martins, or manmark him. TM the wingers so they don't get cheap crosses in. Closing them down would release the ball through the middle. Midfield a bit more difficult to say...I would ideally TM the best playmaker and close down always the other MC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I don't know what your settings are for your fullbacks but I wouldn't have them do forward runs...your formation is very attacking already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i had 2 du this Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Yeah i have Full backs on forward runs rarely. I did try tight marking Martins and Owen and the two wingers and then close down Emre but i lost to a awful mistke from riise. Is what i did wrong in anyway for future reference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afeckingname Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Central defenders get pulled out and this allows the AM to play a simple pass to the striker who scores...is a typical scenario. The problem is not the DC it lies in your instructions. The 442 can be adjusted very simply with a short farrow into a central DM position. Once that is done that problem disappears short forward arrow for the DC or did u mean short back arrow for the MC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 afeckingname barrow for the MC i had 2 du this hard to say honestly I get it wrong sometimes...it all depends on your player abilities, sometimes you need to pay attention to the ingame in-clues...looking at stats and such. I use player ratings a lot and at half time look at their stats to determine, but without sitting beside you I'd be venturing wild guesses. Personally I use OI a fair bit, its only recently that I started using it a lot and I'm learning as much as the next guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick27 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Rashidi1, thanks for the advive. With your help I'm begginging to dominate games both home and away. My problem is I have, on average, 15 shots a game, with only about three to five actually on target. My team isn't creating enough clear cut chances. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 If you are dominating matches then what you need to do is sometimes drop your defensive line a bit more and reduce tempo, that way you can have more room for your wingers to attack. Be careful though, by doing this you allow MCs to take pot shots from range, so make sure if they have a good Long shot taker he gets closed down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick27 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Thanks for your help Rashidi. Will try this in future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aston_martin Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Plenty of debate here I'm sure. Personally I prefer the solo striker with low CF and a deeper striker(farrowed or barrowed) with more CF, FWR often. So that he can be the go to guy when goals are needed. Wouldn't those instructions contradict each other and the whole point of having a deep lying striker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 i think he means a fc in an amc pos with a farrow to fc..or a fc in an fc possition with a barrow to amc(not a darrow) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiunnshuan Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 What's the best tactic against chelsea? They love to play possesion and I'm having a hard time everytime I play against them because I hardly get the ball. I've tried playing attacking and defensive - attacking seems to work better. My team is man utd btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiunnshuan Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Here's my tactics btw. <a href='http://www.sendspace.com/file/k8nwj1'>Attacking</a> <a href='http://www.sendspace.com/file/j1zdiu'>Counter</a> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Certainly found a good way to keep yourself busy rashidi, with all the questions you're getting... Nice to see someone who perseveres with 4-4-2 based tactics. I prefer to use 4-4-2, always have, always will. The only time I ever vary is if I'm playing a really tough opponent and then it's to defend a lead and "park the bus". When I do this, it's later in the game and it's by subbing a striker for a DMC "romper stomper" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 Originally posted by aston_martin:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Plenty of debate here I'm sure. Personally I prefer the solo striker with low CF and a deeper striker(farrowed or barrowed) with more CF, FWR often. So that he can be the go to guy when goals are needed. Wouldn't those instructions contradict each other and the whole point of having a deep lying striker? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Depends on how you want to play..what if the deeplying striker does the late runs into the box and the striker upfront holds up the ball...?? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aston_martin Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Cheers Rash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aston_martin Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Rash, what sort of instructions would you give the 'upfront' striker who holds the ball? I'm very interested in playing strikers this way as I feel you could make a partnership similar to the Rooney/Tevez one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Thanks for the OI examples, i was always under the impression that tight marking quick ST was a bad thing Originally posted by rashidi1:I set my closing down to own area, for literally the whole team, except for the strikers, and the wingers. Closing down settings tell your team where to begin. The higher they are the more likely you are to lose defensive cohesion. Sorry, I'm lost there, Is that for a 442 full stop or simply a counter attacking 442? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Also... I've just played man yoo, I'd like to replicate the way tevez and rooney played. Basically, they swapped positions, one taking it in turns to drop deeper and play balls in to the other, what settings would you suggest for this? I am currently using: Barrowed ST: Attk mentality, Mixed FWR, Rarely RWB, 14 CF, HUB, often TTB, Free Role ST: Attk ment, Often FWR, 6 CF, everything else mixed. I'm undecided whether the barrowed ST should have a lower mentality or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 There are several ways to replicate the partnership you guys are referring to, whether these happen depend on the player attributes. For the holdup man, strength, determination, passing and flair are important. For the late arriving forward, OTB is vital. Then there are the instructions, in a typical situation, the one in front has HUB, direct passing, No TTB, FWR on none/mixed. The other striker should have FWR often, RWB mixed and TTB mixed. Another way is to use arrows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Thanks for your tips on the OI rashidi. I never used them before, and after diving into them the last coule of days based on this thread, I wonder why I didn't take a look at them earlier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Just when I thought I had it nailed, along come Valencia and upset my whole demeanour! That's the intro over with then! Like many traditionalists, I am a Mike Basset man 44 (expletive) 2 and in various incarnations have had decent success, however have never looked at the tactical discussions until the latest versions. Primarily because I was getting some serious butt-kicking in clan games, and was at a loss to explain it. And so I set out to build again from scratch, and was delighted to find this and wwfans thread. So for the last week or so I have been building and studying two tactics (Home and Away) based on the very very good stuff written by Rashid and wwfan, which have proved invaluable in a couple of key areas. As Zaragoza, I am pleased with the way the team is holding the ball, and generally being better defensively, even with a weakened backline. Up against a 4-2-3-1, the barrow on one of the midfielders works well, and am generally pleased. But, and there's always a but, just came upon against the tank that is Valencia, away, who are using a 4-1-3-2, looks defensive, but is a "high tempo, attacking style using the wings". And they roll straight through me! Looks more like a 2-1-5-2 when the have the ball! Back to the drawing board to get a set up for this formation sorted, but a great many thanks for clearing my head on some issues and clarifying my own thoughts in others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan316 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Any ideas on how I can stop my fullbacks getting skinned by quick, skillful wingers time and time again? If I could put a stop to this, Im sure I'd concede half as many goals as I currently do. I have tried putting my fullbacks on easy tackling, reduced their closing down, taken off all forward runs, even went to opposition instructions and told them to show the winger inside. But they still repeatedly just get skinned and allow the winger plenty of time to put in a cross. Any solutions, apart from getting better fullbacks? I have Andrew Taylor and Mears, they arent that bad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aston_martin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Tight, man marking usually works for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanielJosifovski Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Rashidi - Can't you put up a tactic for download? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Originally posted by karan316:Any ideas on how I can stop my fullbacks getting skinned by quick, skillful wingers time and time again? If I could put a stop to this, Im sure I'd concede half as many goals as I currently do. I have tried putting my fullbacks on easy tackling, reduced their closing down, taken off all forward runs, even went to opposition instructions and told them to show the winger inside. But they still repeatedly just get skinned and allow the winger plenty of time to put in a cross. Any solutions, apart from getting better fullbacks? I have Andrew Taylor and Mears, they arent that bad Tight marking or manmarking will work. Personally I prefer Tight marking as its easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 as a 442 fan, I must say that this is really good discussion here, rashidi! only it's a shame it's not as intensive as it might be. I guess guys preffer those super cool download tactics more then a inteligent discussion on this forums. I never downloaded any tactic and I never use those fancy formations that AI doesn't use. I believe that we can do the same what AI can and AI's getting better in every FM. so why use a barrow for striker if you can do the same (allmost) with mentality... I find your wingers instructions very interesting rashidi. I also like my wingers to play more playmaker/fantasista role then just run and cross game. I admit I'm not satisfied so far with my wingers play. you said CF/free role/cross/PPM determines how much they'll stick on line/cut in. my questions and thoughts: -how much of high CF they need to cut in more? -how much do you change their CF for your att/def tactics? -is it important to have your winger on RwB often for cutting in, short passing and cross ball on rarely? -naturaly, player will cut in more if he's right-footed, playing on left flank and vice versa and has PPM "cuts inside". -what about mentalyity (you're using differeent player mentality, right, why?), hold up ball, TTB, over-lapping FB working with cutting in winger? also I'd like to add that OI are esential to have solid defence, now. I concede very few goals. there are so many options that can be used and AI uses OI more then we believe. did anyone tried "mixed tackling on strikers OI"?! work quite nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Spanish testing continues. Well, further experimentation did not result in a win against Valencia, however various tweaking of mentality settings, and actually having a go at them worked! I'm working on a base 2 tactics, one home one away, flat 442 all the way. Wingers farrowed and one CM barrowed. Found that using the away settings, whilst retaining possession didn't create much till I added the farrows. What I have found though that just introducing them at various periods in the game whilst not changing the fundamental settings also creates confusion, so I have gotten into the habit of adding and removing them, when A. up against bigger teams (Barca, Real etc) B. killing the game off as such. The advice given on OI and the team talk advice in Wolfsongs guide are providing invaluable and after 16 games, Zaragoza sit 2nd. On the question raised on wingers, I have found that if they are farrowed or start in the AML/R position, if I remove my FWR instructions on FBs and mark them tightly, that seems to close them down quite effectively. On AMC's, if the opposition uses one I set them to be closed down, with my barrowed CM having FWR set to nil. This means he picks up the AM, whilst the CB's tight mark striker/s. Seems to work. Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 In a flat 442 how do you deal with the 4-1-2-1-2 set-up Rashidi? Just played a match against Galatasary who have the strikers sarrowed. With one CM barrowed my set up leaves a 2 on 1 in the middle, I barrow a striker to pick up the DM, fair enough, but at the back it's confusing. If you tight-mark the strikers, the full-backs should pick them up, as they've gone wide and with the AM and 2 CMs coming forward, there should be no space as the CB's and tracking midfielders outnumber them, and closing down is set on all. However this appears not, as the amount of free space afforded was phenomenal. What would you do with that particular set-up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I've been experimenting with OI a lot lately, using rashidi's advice my usual rules are: Fast ST and wingers get tight marked, slow ones closed down. In all cases if they have a weaker foot, they are forced onto that foot. Long shooters/creative Mids/DM's get closed down. Sometimes a slow playmaker gets tight marking. I haven't personally used hard tackling yet, maybe if a player is closed down and is still getting good ratings. Funny enough I've noticed I don't seem to concede from crosses anymore. Has anyone used tight AND closing down or is that a contradiction? Btw rash, if I posted a tactic would you be interested in taking a look at it and maybe point out any obvious errors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Originally posted by Mitja:as a 442 fan, I must say that this is really good discussion here, rashidi! only it's a shame it's not as intensive as it might be. I guess guys preffer those super cool download tactics more then a inteligent discussion on this forums. I never downloaded any tactic and I never use those fancy formations that AI doesn't use. I believe that we can do the same what AI can and AI's getting better in every FM. so why use a barrow for striker if you can do the same (allmost) with mentality... I find your wingers instructions very interesting rashidi. I also like my wingers to play more playmaker/fantasista role then just run and cross game. I admit I'm not satisfied so far with my wingers play. you said CF/free role/cross/PPM determines how much they'll stick on line/cut in. my questions and thoughts: -how much of high CF they need to cut in more? Use CF as a guide. Low CF makes them hold their positions more, high CF tends to make them drift into more positions, a players attributes and his PPMs are important for you to determine how much. With good teams I usually have to on high normal, for average sides I tend to be more conservative -how much do you change their CF for your att/def tactics? Defensive tactics I usually keep it as low as I can, I have experimented with 1, I usually hover around 6 for sides, in attacking formations around 10-12 -is it important to have your winger on RwB often for cutting in, short passing and cross ball on rarely? Depends on attributes again, does he have the skill for running in and cutting in, this would mean, pace, conditioning and technical attributes. If he doesn't then RWB mixed and have fullbacks do forward runs mixed. When I want someone to cut in more or to make passes instead of score I usually set them on none. -naturaly, player will cut in more if he's right-footed, playing on left flank and vice versa and has PPM "cuts inside". More so a right on left will switch over to left foot to cross more often, though I haven't really tried to see if they cut in to try and score which could be a possibility worth exploring. Yes PPMs are important -what about mentality (you're using different player mentality, right, why?), hold up ball, TTB, over-lapping FB working with cutting in winger? My mentality set up is fairly simple. Attacking players on global mentality, fullbacks on normal and DCs on normal/defensive( Depending on how attacking the formation is also I'd like to add that OI are esential to have solid defence, now. I concede very few goals. there are so many options that can be used and AI uses OI more then we believe. did anyone tried "mixed tackling on strikers OI"?! work quite nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Originally posted by Old Git:Spanish testing continues. Well, further experimentation did not result in a win against Valencia, however various tweaking of mentality settings, and actually having a go at them worked! I'm working on a base 2 tactics, one home one away, flat 442 all the way. Wingers farrowed and one CM barrowed. Found that using the away settings, whilst retaining possession didn't create much till I added the farrows. What I have found though that just introducing them at various periods in the game whilst not changing the fundamental settings also creates confusion, so I have gotten into the habit of adding and removing them, when A. up against bigger teams (Barca, Real etc) B. killing the game off as such. The advice given on OI and the team talk advice in Wolfsongs guide are providing invaluable and after 16 games, Zaragoza sit 2nd. On the question raised on wingers, I have found that if they are farrowed or start in the AML/R position, if I remove my FWR instructions on FBs and mark them tightly, that seems to close them down quite effectively. On AMC's, if the opposition uses one I set them to be closed down, with my barrowed CM having FWR set to nil. This means he picks up the AM, whilst the CB's tight mark striker/s. Seems to work. Thoughts? I like what you did with the AMC, makes a lot of sense, and is something I'd do. If you do not have a barrowed MC, then closing down could be dangerous, cos the AMC will draw the fullbacks out leaving a lot of dangerous 1v1s. I'm a happy man..the use of OI is going to make a lot of differences in your matches. The tough part is knowing what to do. I find that with a 442 tactic you can do a lot more to shut the AI down the challenge is making the front 2 do dangerous one twos to score goals which is something I'm trying to do simply through instructions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Rashidi, would you consider an AMC to be on normal mentality or is he considered an attacking player? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 One of the reasons I chose Zaragoza for this trial and testing was the fact that in the first season, the squad in comparison to the rest of the league is dare I say creaking. Ayala is 34, Sergio is 30! Cuarteros and Juanfran 31. So it would be a challenge to say the least if the current defence could be persuaded to "not ship goals" I am relatively happy with the way that has gone so far, obviously, they can be susceptible to a foot-race wit Etoo, but who wouldn't be. So barring the odd "corner bug" goal, straight through the keeper 30 yarders, and just plain bad decision making, the shape and "holding the line" I am happy with. Originally posted by rashidi1:I find that with a 442 tactic you can do a lot more to shut the AI down the challenge is making the front 2 do dangerous one twos to score goals which is something I'm trying to do simply through instructions. Following on from the above, up front the squad contains Milito and Oliveira, two top class, if not world beating, forwards, both have scored 19 apice as we stand. I prefer to have one on mixed FWR and RWB whilst the other has them on often. Both strikers then have swap in their instructions, short passing, about 1/4 creativity and two clicks above centre Mentality. I find that this movement does cause a fair degree of mayhem in the mid-to lower end table, and sufficient against the top sides to allow others to nip in and nick goals. Then again, I can always count on my VB's to score from corners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janssm Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Since 8.0.2 I've struggled to have any form of consistency, both in attack and defense. I read your posts, and I've implemented all of what has been said in this thread but I still seem to underperform. I'm trying to better understand this new match engine, and my defense seems solid enough and I only allow 1 or 2 opportunities per match, and the opposition seems to magically score from those, nearly every time. I've had 2-0 leads turn into 2-4 defeats in 4 shots. Obviously this has something to do with my defensive tactics allowing easy chances for the opposition strikers. Now, if I've understood correctly, you've set up your entire team apart from strikers and wingers with a closing down of 6. This should limit their opportunities, because low closing down is one of the keys to keeping a solid shape. You said you put your CB's on a defensive mentality, your FB's and MCd on normal and the rest attacking. (again please correct me if I'm wrong) I was wondering, do you put the FB's and the MCd on the same mentality (for example 10) or do you split them? Also, do you ever change your mentalities when playing home/away or do you just tweak other settings such as width/Dline/CF/TTB/FWR etc? Do you not feel that playing with such split mentalities (DC's 6, FB's and MCd 10 and attacking players 15) that your team is struggling to put together a cohesive passing game? Because I certainly do, compared to a RoO system. This could of course be down to my individual settings. Now, playing against 4-4-2s or 4-4-1-1s aren't that much of a problem, however the 4-3-2-1 is an automatic I WIN button against me for the AI as it is now. I've tried tweaking every possible OI for their AM's etc but I've so far failed to put anything useful together. Any tips? Sorry if you think some of my questions are pointless Rashidi1, I'm just struggling to adapt to the 8.0.2 match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonbhoy Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Anyone...In my game the closing down options are 'often, mixed, and rarely' Am I right to assume that conceptually this is the same as 'all over, own half, and own area' respectively. Thanks. Originally posted by rashidi1:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja: as a 442 fan, I must say that this is really good discussion here, rashidi! only it's a shame it's not as intensive as it might be. I guess guys preffer those super cool download tactics more then a inteligent discussion on this forums. I never downloaded any tactic and I never use those fancy formations that AI doesn't use. I believe that we can do the same what AI can and AI's getting better in every FM. so why use a barrow for striker if you can do the same (allmost) with mentality... I find your wingers instructions very interesting rashidi. I also like my wingers to play more playmaker/fantasista role then just run and cross game. I admit I'm not satisfied so far with my wingers play. you said CF/free role/cross/PPM determines how much they'll stick on line/cut in. my questions and thoughts: -how much of high CF they need to cut in more? Use CF as a guide. Low CF makes them hold their positions more, high CF tends to make them drift into more positions, a players attributes and his PPMs are important for you to determine how much. With good teams I usually have to on high normal, for average sides I tend to be more conservative -how much do you change their CF for your att/def tactics? Defensive tactics I usually keep it as low as I can, I have experimented with 1, I usually hover around 6 for sides, in attacking formations around 10-12 -is it important to have your winger on RwB often for cutting in, short passing and cross ball on rarely? Depends on attributes again, does he have the skill for running in and cutting in, this would mean, pace, conditioning and technical attributes. If he doesn't then RWB mixed and have fullbacks do forward runs mixed. When I want someone to cut in more or to make passes instead of score I usually set them on none. -naturaly, player will cut in more if he's right-footed, playing on left flank and vice versa and has PPM "cuts inside". More so a right on left will switch over to left foot to cross more often, though I haven't really tried to see if they cut in to try and score which could be a possibility worth exploring. Yes PPMs are important -what about mentality (you're using different player mentality, right, why?), hold up ball, TTB, over-lapping FB working with cutting in winger? My mentality set up is fairly simple. Attacking players on global mentality, fullbacks on normal and DCs on normal/defensive( Depending on how attacking the formation is also I'd like to add that OI are esential to have solid defence, now. I concede very few goals. there are so many options that can be used and AI uses OI more then we believe. did anyone tried "mixed tackling on strikers OI"?! work quite nice </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Originally posted by dragonbhoy:Anyone...In my game the closing down options are 'often, mixed, and rarely' Am I right to assume that conceptually this is the same as 'all over, own half, and own area' respectively. Thanks. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja: as a 442 fan, I must say that this is really good discussion here, rashidi! only it's a shame it's not as intensive as it might be. I guess guys preffer those super cool download tactics more then a inteligent discussion on this forums. I never downloaded any tactic and I never use those fancy formations that AI doesn't use. I believe that we can do the same what AI can and AI's getting better in every FM. so why use a barrow for striker if you can do the same (allmost) with mentality... I find your wingers instructions very interesting rashidi. I also like my wingers to play more playmaker/fantasista role then just run and cross game. I admit I'm not satisfied so far with my wingers play. you said CF/free role/cross/PPM determines how much they'll stick on line/cut in. my questions and thoughts: -how much of high CF they need to cut in more? Use CF as a guide. Low CF makes them hold their positions more, high CF tends to make them drift into more positions, a players attributes and his PPMs are important for you to determine how much. With good teams I usually have to on high normal, for average sides I tend to be more conservative -how much do you change their CF for your att/def tactics? Defensive tactics I usually keep it as low as I can, I have experimented with 1, I usually hover around 6 for sides, in attacking formations around 10-12 -is it important to have your winger on RwB often for cutting in, short passing and cross ball on rarely? Depends on attributes again, does he have the skill for running in and cutting in, this would mean, pace, conditioning and technical attributes. If he doesn't then RWB mixed and have fullbacks do forward runs mixed. When I want someone to cut in more or to make passes instead of score I usually set them on none. -naturaly, player will cut in more if he's right-footed, playing on left flank and vice versa and has PPM "cuts inside". More so a right on left will switch over to left foot to cross more often, though I haven't really tried to see if they cut in to try and score which could be a possibility worth exploring. Yes PPMs are important -what about mentality (you're using different player mentality, right, why?), hold up ball, TTB, over-lapping FB working with cutting in winger? My mentality set up is fairly simple. Attacking players on global mentality, fullbacks on normal and DCs on normal/defensive( Depending on how attacking the formation is also I'd like to add that OI are esential to have solid defence, now. I concede very few goals. there are so many options that can be used and AI uses OI more then we believe. did anyone tried "mixed tackling on strikers OI"?! work quite nice </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you have patched your game you should not be seein that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I have now almost completed the first season of the trial and for the last 3 months have not made any further tweaks to the setup I had with my Zaragoza side, other than OI instructions. Current status are as follows: Pl 37, W21, D 7, L 9 GF 65, GA 42 - Position 5th The Home Set-up Pl 18, W 14, D 3, L 1 The Away Set-up Pl 19, W 7, D 4, L 8 So still some work to be done with that set-up. With the away one, I appear not be having as much of the ball and am constantly defending my own 18. I have never used the counter-attack box, what effect would this have? Should I be looking to play more direct in a more defensive set-up? 4 of the defeats came at the start of this test and tweak, some came against the freak "bug goals" whilst 2 came recently when half the squad were in their sick-beds. (It'll be L10 by the end of the season as it's Real Madrid in the last game,) All in all relatively happy with how it has been "shaping up" I have not changed the side dramatically since the start of the game and only going into the 2nd season will I see younger/better players at the club, with the view to bettering these results. What I have found is that there are certain AI formations that my normal defensive set-up just collapses against, the main one being the way the AI teams use the 4-2-3-1 (tight) formation. I call it tight as the three AMC's are central. Occassionally, they will use 4 AM/FCs in three of the 5 Mid/Striker Roles, and have them switching. Not just two players, but 3 or four of them interchange often. AI has a distinct advantage here as you don't always see the changes happen until the defence disintegrates and a goal is conceded. I have been using a mix of tight-marking/closing down with this, however I am not having much success due to the rapidity of the AI changes. Any suggestions. Enjoying this thread immensely Rashid, as it's certainly interesting to pick the traditionalist brain. Mike Basset for England! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Heading off for a short holiday, I'll try and get back you you (Old Git). I have some ideas.. One thing about my style of play is that the only difference between my home and away tactic lies in small areas. 1. I reduce fwr on the fullbacks. 2. My defensive line tends to be adjusted based on how attacking the AI tends to be, I don't normally go any lower than a couple of notches below dead centre. 3. My tempo tends to be a bit slower, and my width usually goes to normal. Away from home I tend to focus on the formations that can get thrown at me. I tend to tightmark wingers quite often and close down their fullbacks off Opposition instructions if its an attacking 442. If they play a 4231, then I set one DC to manmark the striker and I usually pay a lot of attention to the central AM. Closing them down heavily is sometimes a problem cos they tend to drag my defenders out of shape, so I usually opt for tight marking them. Oddly enough I don't usually succumb to creating a counterattacking tactic. There really isn't a need to. What you should be doing is setting up passing to mixed at the back and direct from midfield onwards. The mentality of the whole team sans the defenders can be on attacking, and if you find that you are giving up too much possession, start reducing ttb and keep it on the players who can pass well. My first order of business away from home is to keep possession. The AI does use a lot of swapping. When it does make sure that your width is not too wide, keep your players CF as low as possible (6 is fine) and then make sure you have some of these AM's tightmarked. Personally I never go defensive away from home, its too taxing on me cos I need to turn away wave after wave. I tend to go for the jugular early, by pushing up my defensive line to a level where my players are not too exposed at the back (12) and then play a normal to high tempo game. The direct passing in midfield allows me to do that. What I'd do is this in terms of shape <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> FC | | AM ML MC MC MR / / / / DL DC DC DR </pre> That formation works well enough for me when I face an AMC led attack. What happens in this formation is that I set the MC to specific manmark if need be, or tight mark and have the AMCs either tightmarked or closed down heavily. If the team possesses good movement/pace then I choose tight marked. If they are slower than my team then I pick closed down heavily. Hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GioRotterdam Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Awsome stuff mate, you're almost making me skip school today to design a new 4-4-2 though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Originally posted by rashidi1:Hope this helps Your thoughts, as always, well appreciated, have a happy holiday! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Originally posted by Old Git:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1: Hope this helps Your thoughts, as always, well appreciated, have a happy holiday! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I actually had a whole load of comments and discussion points on the original post which seem to have been lost in the posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Ah I have internet access...provided my gf allows me online..enough times..so keep in touch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObaMartins09 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Going to try and create a 4-4-2 over the weekend. Will post my findings on Monday. Hoping to make it as easily 'tweakable' as possible. So that it is easy to adjust when playing away and at home, mainly changing team instructions. Going to read the whole thread now and then will try and use it in my game. Probably will be Newcastle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Originally posted by rashidi1:1. I reduce fwr on the fullbacks. That's a must away from home 2. My defensive line tends to be adjusted based on how attacking the AI tends to be, I don't normally go any lower than a couple of notches below dead centre. Too Deep and you invite pressure, however, wih an aing backline, pacey strikers could be an issue i too high. Couple of notches below normal ould be good, in conjunction with a sweeper keeper would nullify that. 3. My tempo tends to be a bit slower, and my width usually goes to normal. Too slow however allows the home team, who may well be at a high closing down game, to close quickly and your midfield gets caught in possession. I suggest somewhere around the normal mark. Away from home I tend to focus on the formations that can get thrown at me. I tend to tightmark wingers quite often and close down their fullbacks off Opposition instructions if its an attacking 442. If they play a 4231, then I set one DC to manmark the striker and I usually pay a lot of attention to the central AM. Closing them down heavily is sometimes a problem cos they tend to drag my defenders out of shape, so I usually opt for tight marking them. Use of OI, I now see as vital in the latest version, it's getting the mix right that become's problematic. Oddly enough I don't usually succumb to creating a counterattacking tactic. There really isn't a need to. What you should be doing is setting up passing to mixed at the back and direct from midfield onwards. Would this not lead to loss of possession, allowing the opposition to counter quickly? The mentality of the whole team sans the defenders can be on attacking, and if you find that you are giving up too much possession, start reducing ttb and keep it on the players who can pass well. My prefferred TTB players are generally for the two CMs, hopefully allowing a quick break from defence whilst under pressure. Hope this helps Hopefully these comments are useful for folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Good stuff Old Git.. As far as my point about counterattacking tactics..the reason why I set it to mixed passing and direct is to get the ball up quickly. If I wanted a more possession-based game : Slow passing/Direct attack. I like setting these kind of different passing instructions, seems to work well in FM2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Rashidi, You are supposed to be on a short holiday, don't make it any shorter by being in here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.