Recruitment Focus based on Gegenpress

[zois92]

Hello guys and sorry if I'm off topic or if this subject is already covered.
I would like to create a recruitment focus on players that can fit in my system and are good for a gegenpress tactic.

I know its easier to select the attributes manually and search for players but I want to utilise the new recruitment focus and let the scouts do all the job based on metrics.

Can anyone help me with this?

[Cloud9]

On 22/06/2023 at 07:58, zois92 said:

Hello guys and sorry if I'm off topic or if this subject is already covered.
I would like to create a recruitment focus on players that can fit in my system and are good for a gegenpress tactic.

I know its easier to select the attributes manually and search for players but I want to utilise the new recruitment focus and let the scouts do all the job based on metrics.

Can anyone help me with this?

Aggression, strength, stamina, natural fitness, teamwork, work ethic are attributes you should look for. You can select in the individual recruitment focus the parameters of the players you'd like to look for.

Fine your players when they play badly and their work ethic will continue to develop  

[Andros]

I think cloud9 is almost singlehandedly keeping this forum going! nice work cloud9 on all your posts!

[Verby]

21 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Aggression, strength, stamina, natural fitness, teamwork, work ethic are attributes you should look for. You can select in the individual recruitment focus the parameters of the players you'd like to look for.

Fine your players when they play badly and their work ethic will continue to develop  

What rating would you classify as bad/or fine worthy? I am always scared to fine players for low ratings because if they kick off about it everything could go downhill fast. I tend to give 1 days fine for bad ratings

Edited June 26, 2023 by Verby

[zois92]

23 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Aggression, strength, stamina, natural fitness, teamwork, work ethic are attributes you should look for. You can select in the individual recruitment focus the parameters of the players you'd like to look for.

Fine your players when they play badly and their work ethic will continue to develop  

Thanks for replying but I was mainly referring to metrics such as possession gained/lost and things like that, in order to place them into the scouting report and find suitable players based on those metrics.

[zois92]

1 hour ago, Verby said:

What rating would you classify as bad/or fine worthy? I am always scared to fine players for low ratings because if they kick off about it everything could go downhill fast. I tend to give 1 days fine for bad ratings

Under 6.5 and I fine them 1/2 week of wages.

in most cases you’ll see a boost in determination and work rate.

[toshimitzou1]

5 minutes ago, zois92 said:

Thanks for replying but I was mainly referring to metrics such as possession gained/lost and things like that

This is the best idea if you are doing a playthrough with all attributes hidden. Is this the case? If so then it can be tricky. As an example, players who win possession most are more likely to be playing for teams whom are lower in the league and as such are making challenges more often. As another example, distance covered can be an indication of a player whom is constantly tracking back in a defensive system rather than closing down on the front foot. If you are determined to use the scouting metrics to unearth players then you will need to be intuitive, 

In the first instance you could use the following Parameters: Tackle attempts per 90 mins, possession won, interceptions per 90 mins under general focus. Thereafter you will need to cross reference with the club the player plays for and the tactical style that club deploys to ensure these aren't solely a consequence of the tactical approach his club employs rather than an indication of ability.

This can then be done by position in short-term focuses where, whilst more effort is needed, the results will be closer to what you are looking for. In addition, you can tailor it to suit the roles and duties deployed in your gegenpress system. EG. If you are deploying a creative FB/CB you could search with the Key Passes metric on a short term focus and then cross reference as before.

 

Ultimately, if you have attributes visible then @Cloud9's advice is spot on. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

[zois92]

11 hours ago, toshimitzou1 said:

This is the best idea if you are doing a playthrough with all attributes hidden. Is this the case? If so then it can be tricky. As an example, players who win possession most are more likely to be playing for teams whom are lower in the league and as such are making challenges more often. As another example, distance covered can be an indication of a player whom is constantly tracking back in a defensive system rather than closing down on the front foot. If you are determined to use the scouting metrics to unearth players then you will need to be intuitive, 

In the first instance you could use the following Parameters: Tackle attempts per 90 mins, possession won, interceptions per 90 mins under general focus. Thereafter you will need to cross reference with the club the player plays for and the tactical style that club deploys to ensure these aren't solely a consequence of the tactical approach his club employs rather than an indication of ability.

This can then be done by position in short-term focuses where, whilst more effort is needed, the results will be closer to what you are looking for. In addition, you can tailor it to suit the roles and duties deployed in your gegenpress system. EG. If you are deploying a creative FB/CB you could search with the Key Passes metric on a short term focus and then cross reference as before.

 

Ultimately, if you have attributes visible then @Cloud9's advice is spot on. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

That was my initial thought.

player positions and specific metrics for those positions.

for example if there is a “ball carries” for a player in a lower mid table team is much more useful than of someone from a top tier team.

I just don’t know the specific numbers let’s say for those metrics. What number is good for possession won let’s say and etc.

and also important metrics for specific positions.

for example distance covered in a full back is more important than a winger.

or pressure attempted from a striker is more important than a cb

[toshimitzou1]

36 minutes ago, zois92 said:

What number is good for possession won let’s say and etc.

Set-up your tactic and deploy it either in friendlies or a 'test' save. See what positions are carrying out what actions, their success rate, frequency and go from there.

[Cloud9]

On 26/06/2023 at 13:54, Verby said:

What rating would you classify as bad/or fine worthy? I am always scared to fine players for low ratings because if they kick off about it everything could go downhill fast. I tend to give 1 days fine for bad ratings

You're able to fine anyone who performs 6.5 or below, you can set LMR in the Squad Selection to make this really easy.

As to how much: it depends on your discipline level as coach (if you start w/ no rep/coaching badges proceed with caution) and the players hidden attributes.

I would start the save by issuing everyone a warning (no fine) after their first poor performance and see how they react. If the player is "shocked," never fine (or even warn) them again. If things are delicate, ie no coaching badges, a 1 day fine is what I use after the warning until I start to figure out who can actually handle getting fined. I also put notes next to the players who need special treatment as a reminder.

Like was mentioned half a weeks wages is preferable if possible, but it's always better to prioritize keeping a player on side. The whole point of discipling him is to reinvigorate his performance and boost his determination/work ethic, not the $. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Cloud9

[The3points]

On 26/06/2023 at 18:52, toshimitzou1 said:

This is the best idea if you are doing a playthrough with all attributes hidden. Is this the case? If so then it can be tricky. As an example, players who win possession most are more likely to be playing for teams whom are lower in the league and as such are making challenges more often. As another example, distance covered can be an indication of a player whom is constantly tracking back in a defensive system rather than closing down on the front foot. 

In reference to this, I believe there are plenty of spreadsheets in forums for FM that possession adjust defensive metrics.

This is the most prominent one I remembered

[Mutumba]

I would also like to add pace and acceleration to already mentioned attributes for gegenpress. 

[Cloud9]

10 hours ago, Mutumba said:

I would also like to add pace and acceleration to already mentioned attributes for gegenpress. 

It might help to differentiate between the two types of running in the game. Short Sprinting vs Long Distance.

A gegenpress is much more geared toward the latter, where as you might prioritize Pace/Acceleration in a low/midblock where your players are being asked to exploit the space in behind with it. Pace/acceleration is a powerful combination for any player, but in a high lines gegenpress you're looking for players capable of running over 90 minutes rather than in short bursts. Pace/acceleration on your own backline becomes important as the space on the pitch is behind you. 

Hope that clears things up a little 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[cocoadavid]

18 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

It might help to differentiate between the two types of running in the game. Short Sprinting vs Long Distance.

A gegenpress is much more geared toward the latter, where as you might prioritize Pace/Acceleration in a low/midblock where your players are being asked to exploit the space in behind with it. Pace/acceleration is a powerful combination for any player, but in a high lines gegenpress you're looking for players capable of running over 90 minutes rather than in short bursts. Pace/acceleration on your own backline becomes important as the space on the pitch is behind you. 

Hope that clears things up a little 

I think the opposite is true. For gegenpress, and pressing in general acceleration is more important than pace, because if you want to win the ball back immediately, then you would like to get in the opposition's face in a short distance as quickly as possible (however, if you play with a high defensive line, for central defenders pace can be more important because there is a lot of space behind them, so they can reach their top speed while running back). While for low and midblocks, top speed (pace) is more important for counter-attacking, because players have the space to reach their top speed (pace). 

How well your playes can keep up the press over 90 minutes is rather determined by stamina, work rate, teamwork and determination.

Edited July 7, 2023 by cocoadavid

[Mutumba]

2 hours ago, cocoadavid said:

I think the opposite is true. For gegenpress, and pressing in general acceleration is more important than pace, because if you want to win the ball back immediately, then you would like to get in the opposition's face in a short distance as quickly as possible (however, if you play with a high defensive line, for central defenders pace can be more important because there is a lot of space behind them, so they can reach their top speed while running back). While for low and midblocks, top speed (pace) is more important for counter-attacking, because players have the space to reach their top speed (pace). 

How well your playes can keep up the press over 90 minutes is rather determined by stamina, work rate, teamwork and determination.

This was my point exactley. Maybe pace isnt as important, but acceleration is (in my opinion). 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Mutumba