Terrible in away games

[Shippy]

It’s my first time posting here and I’m just looking for some advice on my tactic in away games. At home we perform amazing even against the likes of City and Liverpool but away from home we are terrible! Barely getting more than a handful of shots on target and conceding goals for fun. I’ve tried numerous different formations/tactics but I can’t get anything to work consistently. This is my tactic at home. Away from home I drop the mentality to cautious. Change the WB on attack to a full back on attack and go to a mid block with standard defensive line.

Any advice or tips would be much appreciated 😊

Im playing on the Switch if that makes any difference

Edited July 1, 2023 by Shippy

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, Shippy said:

It’s my first time posting here and I’m just looking for some advice on my tactic in away games. At home we perform amazing even against the likes of City and Liverpool but away from home we are terrible! Barely getting more than a handful of shots on target and conceding goals for fun. I’ve tried numerous different formations/tactics but I can’t get anything to work consistently. This is my tactic at home. Away from home I drop the mentality to cautious. Change the WB on attack to a full back on attack and go to a mid block with standard defensive line.

Any advice or tips would be much appreciated 😊

Im playing on the Switch if that makes any difference

Nothing looks too out of place here. I'd guess you've got off the field issues that are masked by player quality and show themselves in the tough games. Team dynamics/morale/squad rotation is what I'd look at.

On tactical tweaks:

• AF is a better fit w/ a mid block. 
• Are you putting any PIs on the AMC? Your double holding pivot is giving him license to do whatever he wants, so taking advantage of that could help out. Roam + attacking traits could help free him up into a creative force. 
• Pass into space will help when you drop to a mid block.
• IW are nice in a high lines system but offer less hard work, attacking of space than traditional wingers when you drop the lines back. Adding in one W for one of the IW could help.
• Going narrow against tough opposition can help you be more defensively stable.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Cloud9

[Shippy]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I’ve read so many of your comments on other topics! 😂

in regards to the AMC sometimes I use roam from position, dribble less purely because I play Bruno Fernandes there and he only has 10 dribbling.

I’ve got such good options with IW on the left so I would like to keep that one so W on support on the right with FB on attack behind him?

[dazza11]

Looking at your tactic I am struggling to see where your goals are coming from - your dlp/bwm won’t move much, ur AM will largely sit in the pocket, and there are better roles for a striker as the main outlet than a PF. 
I’d switch the dlp to a vol (s) to get another player moving forward, especially with a fb (s) you have enough def cover.

id make your iws an IFA and switch your striker to an AF. That way you have two main goal threats, good support from the other wing and the AM and vol providing good link up play. 
Also - you are Man U. Even when playing away from home most teams will be fairly cautious of you, so I don’t think you need to drop your own mentality down to cautious. Go with balanced, you have good enough players. Away from home, on midblock, with the pace that the likes of Sancho:Rashford/Garnacho/Martial and a TI of pass into space you should be banging them in. 

[Shippy]

Something abit like this?

Would you suggest a WB on support behind the IFa?

In term of TIs I just use pass into space, counter, mid block with more often closing down.

 

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, Shippy said:

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I’ve read so many of your comments on other topics! 😂

in regards to the AMC sometimes I use roam from position, dribble less purely because I play Bruno Fernandes there and he only has 10 dribbling.

I’ve got such good options with IW on the left so I would like to keep that one so W on support on the right with FB on attack behind him?

Hm if you want, but there's no problem having two wide players move onto the same space (as there is when you have two strikers moving into the same channel). However, a fullback will be more defensively minded than his wingback counterpart.

On mentality, I wouldn't feel the need change it from your plan A just because you're moving the lines back. Positive vs Balanced mentality isn't an indicator of your strength vs the opposition, and will impact literally everything in your setup. A Positive mentality midblock can be just fine  Personally I think the new setup has developed more problems than the original one had. I would recommend adding things like two BPD, which you can get away with safely as one of the giants in the league. Simply adding more attacking roles and expecting more goals can cause real problems in my experience. 

However I do agree that you might not be influencing the game enough as a big club. If you're setting up to defend, and the opposition is sitting deep you could find yourself struggling. If they are sitting back, I would recommend playing the tactic you normally do (Plan A: high lines etc.) and just play a toned down version of it instead.

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, Shippy said:

Something abit like this?

Would you suggest a WB on support behind the IFa?

In term of TIs I just use pass into space, counter, mid block with more often closing down.

 

Little follow up for when you do play a midblock:

One thing to keep in mind is that altho the AMC is on support duty, you've got a hugely offensive/creative player there roaming for the team (w/crazy offensive traits to boot). He's also a huge goal threat himself.  However, he's going to offer very little defensive work, so having the system set up to do the hard yards for him makes a lot of a sense. I'm a big fan of playing w/passing meters for the entire squad on their PIs and that can help to ensure Fernandes is your primary creator.

Just the AF change is probably all you really need to get the original tactic firing on a midblock. He'll put that pressure on the backline that the PF won't, and will give Fernandes someone to play in whenever he's on the ball. If you find yourself conceding more than you'd like still: dropping the width will help (as mentioned) and flipping the WB from attack to support will stop him from trying to run the entire length of the pitch.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Cloud9

[Shippy]

3 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Little follow up for when you do play a midblock:

One thing to keep in mind is that altho the AMC is on support duty, you've got a hugely offensive/creative player there roaming for the team (w/crazy offensive traits to boot). He's also a huge goal threat himself.  However, he's going to offer very little defensive work, so having the system set up to do the hard yards for him makes a lot of a sense. I'm a big fan of playing w/passing meters for the entire squad on their PIs and that can help to ensure Fernandes is your primary creator.

Just the AF change is probably all you really need to get the original tactic firing on a midblock. He'll put that pressure on the backline that the PF won't, and will give Fernandes someone to play in whenever he's on the ball. If you find yourself conceding more than you'd like still: dropping the width will help (as mentioned) and flipping the WB from attack to support will stop him from trying to run the entire length of the pitch.

I have reverted back to the original tactic with some of the changes you have mentioned. Definitely noticed a change playing with the AF rather than PF! Thank you for that.

You said you like the play with the passing PIs. Do you have players with better passing ability playing more direct passes and players that aren’t so good playing shorter passes?

I never really use PIs as I’m not sure how it affects the overall tactic.

[Cloud9]

On 02/07/2023 at 00:12, Shippy said:

I have reverted back to the original tactic with some of the changes you have mentioned. Definitely noticed a change playing with the AF rather than PF! Thank you for that.

You said you like the play with the passing PIs. Do you have players with better passing ability playing more direct passes and players that aren’t so good playing shorter passes?

I never really use PIs as I’m not sure how it affects the overall tactic.

Yep, that's the general idea on passing instructions. Especially in a high tempo/direct midblock tactic it can be really nice in making sure the workman players are laying it off to the talented boys to make that line breaking pass. It gives the side a more unique style of play that opposition sides can struggle to adapt to as well. 

Since Fernandes is in a non ball magnet role (amc), the passing meter changes can be particularly effective. Usually I look to pick out a handful of player I'd like to give that license to, to make your attacks less predictable. "Take more risks" can be a nice additional modifier to ask a player to pass into space. It impacts a couple of other things as well so you might need to use it a little more conservatively.

One thing to keep an eye out for: DLP(s) + BWM(d) is a great combination, but the DLP will attract the ball more than other roles as a playmaker. That's not necessarily a problem, but it can make your attacks more one dimensional. I'd just watch how it plays in the ME w/the passing changes. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Cloud9

[Shippy]

On 04/07/2023 at 18:19, Cloud9 said:

Yep, that's the general idea on passing instructions. Especially in a high tempo/direct midblock tactic it can be really nice in making sure the workman players are laying it off to the talented boys to make that line breaking pass. It gives the side a more unique style of play that opposition sides can struggle to adapt to as well. 

Since Fernandes is in a non ball magnet role (amc), the passing meter changes can be particularly effective. Usually I look to pick out a handful of player I'd like to give that license to, to make your attacks less predictable. "Take more risks" can be a nice additional modifier to ask a player to pass into space. It impacts a couple of other things as well so you might need to use it a little more conservatively.

One thing to keep an eye out for: DLP(s) + BWM(d) is a great combination, but the DLP will attract the ball more than other roles as a playmaker. That's not necessarily a problem, but it can make your attacks more one dimensional. I'd just watch how it plays in the ME w/the passing changes. 

Thank you replying I could not get this to work away from home. Recently switched to a 433 and tried to impose myself being the bigger team. I have been tinkering with the passing instruction and I can’t believe how much of a difference it makes to the team!

[Cloud9]

19 hours ago, Shippy said:

Thank you replying I could not get this to work away from home. Recently switched to a 433 and tried to impose myself being the bigger team. I have been tinkering with the passing instruction and I can’t believe how much of a difference it makes to the team!

That's great to hear  Glad it's working for you!