Some questions and bugs

[Sussex_guy2k2]

I’ve been playing for a few years on the mobile version and wanted to highlight a few bugs and ask a couple of questions.

1) bug - when negotiating, if I negotiate to sell a player with a buy back fee and a percentage clause, when I actually sell them, these are often not in the contract when the player moves, giving me no sell on clause and no buy back, or only one or the other.

This issue has been around for a while and needs to be fixed.

2) attacking corners - bug - I still concede on the counter far too much because players don’t stay back as required.

There should also be options for how to approach corners when defending and attacking, depending on your mentality as a team.

3) world player of the year - question - how is this decided? After 20 odd seasons of winning almost everything, I still struggle to get players in the top 3, let alone winning it. Yet players from teams like Benfica, Ajax etc win it regularly or end up in the top 3, often with ratings and stats well below my players’. This needs to be made much more realistic.

4) player characteristics - question - some characteristics seem almost impossible to train out of players, such as laziness. Why is that?

5) selling and buying players - I’m sure this has been touched on so many times, but the valuations are unrealistic. It’s almost impossible to get above valuation for my players, yet other teams will want 2,3,4,10… times the player value.

Still, the game’s great in general. Just some things need to be improved, particularly point 1 which is a bug that’s been about for far too long!

[Marc Vaughan]

'4) player characteristics - question - some characteristics seem almost impossible to train out of players, such as laziness. Why is that?"

I'm in a hotel waiting for a plane so I'll answer most of these later when I'm landed and not jetlagged - but this one is because mental/personality attributes are the hardest to train as in real-life, changing a mindset of someone is difficult.

If you want to do so then try and build a team with a specific mentality and it'll help encourage others to follow that way of thinking - this is most effective in influence on younger players, older players tend to be more set in their way (mentoring can also help with this) ... do bear in mind that some players will rebel against a dressing room or mentor who doesn't share their approach, so there is some risk involved.

[Sussex_guy2k2]

Thanks for your feedback. I look forward to hearing your opinion on the rest of the issues.

[Sussex_guy2k2]

I also thought I’d add, regarding transfers, that it would be good to be able to negotiate all transfers individually. At the moment, if two clubs make an offer of the same amount, you cannot see if there are clauses of by backs included because you can’t negotiate individually. It would be more realistic, and I imagine quite easy on development time, to implement this.

Lastly, it would be great to be able to negotiate clauses when agreeing to a purchase clause in a loan contract, whether buying or selling.

[Marc Vaughan]

14 hours ago, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

I also thought I’d add, regarding transfers, that it would be good to be able to negotiate all transfers individually. At the moment, if two clubs make an offer of the same amount, you cannot see if there are clauses of by backs included because you can’t negotiate individually. It would be more realistic, and I imagine quite easy on development time, to implement this.

Lastly, it would be great to be able to negotiate clauses when agreeing to a purchase clause in a loan contract, whether buying or selling.

We used to allow the transfers to be done individually - but this made it more difficult to play clubs off against each other and the sequence took longer, which was problematic around transfer deadlines ... its possible we'll refine this further in the future though as its not 100% where I want it to be tbh.

[Marc Vaughan]

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

1) bug - when negotiating, if I negotiate to sell a player with a buy back fee and a percentage clause, when I actually sell them, these are often not in the contract when the player moves, giving me no sell on clause and no buy back, or only one or the other.

I thought I'd fixed this in one of the updates - will query QA when I'm back from holiday (I'm off this week for my birthday).

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

2) attacking corners - bug - I still concede on the counter far too much because players don’t stay back as required.

Are these players set as 'back' or 'back if needed' out of interest - can you message me more detailed information.

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

There should also be options for how to approach corners when defending and attacking, depending on your mentality as a team.

I can see why you might want this - but there are limits to how complex/detailed I really want mobile to get.

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

3) world player of the year - question - how is this decided? After 20 odd seasons of winning almost everything, I still struggle to get players in the top 3, let alone winning it. Yet players from teams like Benfica, Ajax etc win it regularly or end up in the top 3, often with ratings and stats well below my players’. This needs to be made much more realistic.

I'll look at tweaking this - however in real-life its often dominated by a few teams and famous players and doesn't always match up with stats.

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

4) player characteristics - question - some characteristics seem almost impossible to train out of players, such as laziness. Why is that?

In real-life peoples personalities are difficult to change, especially once they're 'adults' - this is similar in the game.

(if you can give examples of lazy people who became hardworking or unprofessional players who became model professionals I'll revisit this by all means - at present it takes patience, having the right coaches (youth/motirvational) and using mentors to change personalities)

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

5) selling and buying players - I’m sure this has been touched on so many times, but the valuations are unrealistic. It’s almost impossible to get above valuation for my players, yet other teams will want 2,3,4,10… times the player value.

I'll keep an eye on this - as in real-life there are a LOT of factors that go into such things, having rival bids is a huge factor in getting paid over the amount as the buying club having a crisis in a position. Again not denying that improvements can be made.

With regards to the 'visible' value these aren't intended to be more than guidelines for users.

On 19/07/2023 at 17:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

Still, the game’s great in general. Just some things need to be improved, particularly point 1 which is a bug that’s been about for far too long!

thanks - glad you're enjoying the game and thanks for the feedback, its very useful and honest feedback helps us improve things which is awesome

[Sussex_guy2k2]

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

I thought I'd fixed this in one of the updates - will query QA when I'm back from holiday (I'm off this week for my birthday).

This absolutely isn’t fixed. Unless there’s something I have to do, such as make it non-negotiable… but when it goes green, the sell on fee will often be there, but come the actual sale either that or the buy back clause (or both) have gone. And it’s annoying. It has more of an impact the lower down the leagues you play too, unsurprisingly.

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

Are these players set as 'back' or 'back if needed' out of interest - can you message me more detailed information.

They are, yes. It wouldn’t be annoying if the opposition didn’t have the ability to change the amount of players they left forward each time. I tend to have 2 as “stay back” and at least one more as “stay back if needed”, but I rarely seem to keep 3 back, even if the opposition go from having 1 left up top to 3. I can send you some screen shots if necessary.

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

I can see why you might want this - but there are limits to how complex/detailed I really want mobile to get.

I get that, but surely set piece changes can be made in game if they’re there beforehand?

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

I'll look at tweaking this - however in real-life it’s often dominated by a few teams and famous players and doesn't always match up with stats.

Very true. But it’s rarely dominated by Benfica and Ajax players, which it regularly is on my games. And I assume the reputation of teams changes as the seasons progress, right? So if I win the Champions League 5 years in a row, for example, then my best players should be in the running, as they would be in real life.

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

In real-life peoples personalities are difficult to change, especially once they're 'adults' - this is similar in the game.

(if you can give examples of lazy people who became hardworking or unprofessional players who became model professionals I'll revisit this by all means - at present it takes patience, having the right coaches (youth/motirvational) and using mentors to change personalities)

Noted.

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

I'll keep an eye on this - as in real-life there are a LOT of factors that go into such things, having rival bids is a huge factor in getting paid over the amount as the buying club having a crisis in a position. Again not denying that improvements can be made.

I understand this. But therein lies an issue because the functionality around multiple bids doesn’t work properly, as discussed, because you can’t alter things like sell on clauses or buy backs.

Furthermore, there’s often not a final bid once two or three teams are bidding against each other. So what I often have to do is save the game before I deal with bids just in case they all pull out because I’ve gone up by £1m, for example.

Going back to the original point though, I often see computer teams bidding well above a seeming value of a player, but I rarely seem to get such bids. There definitely needs to be some balance brought to this.

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

With regards to the 'visible' value these aren't intended to be more than guidelines for users.

Right, but they need to have some basis in reality. I have a player that’s 31, but that’s been very good for me. I genuinely seem to be getting a bid for him every 2-3 days, and it’s always at least £10m below his value. And he has 2 years left on his deal… this just doesn’t make sense.

On 22/07/2023 at 21:31, Marc Vaughan said:

thanks - glad you're enjoying the game and thanks for the feedback, its very useful and honest feedback helps us improve things which is awesome

I am, it’s an excellent game. It’s just a shame the small bugs, some of which have been around for a while, take you out of the experience too often.

I appreciate its not an exact science though.

[Marc Vaughan]

Quote

]Right, but they need to have some basis in reality. I have a player that’s 31, but that’s been very good for me. I genuinely seem to be getting a bid for him every 2-3 days, and it’s always at least £10m below his value. And he has 2 years left on his deal… this just doesn’t make sense.

If you reject these it should dissuade bids below that value from occuring for a reasonable period (I think its set to six months) - so if you negotiate up to say 20m and they drop out that should shut the other clubs up, basically you've scared them off.
Disclaimer - players can get upset about this.

[Shanamaj]

I agree that clubs keep low-balling time after time for the same player who gets upset by the rejection each time, even if I can convince him to stay in between the other. It just isn’t realistic that a player alternates between leaving and staying every 3 days during the entire transfer window.

Regarding negotiations with multiple clubs I think a 25% sell-on is always added now, which is an improvement but if negotiating on such things is too complex to add it would be nice if at least a randomness to the sell-on clause.

There is also an issue that remains where a club might buy one of my players for say 20M and then insert a release clause for 10M, which definitely is unrealistic. It happens to me very frequently.

[kopfan1977]

On 19/07/2023 at 22:17, Sussex_guy2k2 said:

 

5) selling and buying players - I’m sure this has been touched on so many times, but the valuations are unrealistic. It’s almost impossible to get above valuation for my players, yet other teams will want 2,3,4,10… times the player value.

 

@Marc Vaughan

This issue is an annoyance.

 

For instance - Amadou Onana - Everton have  transfer listed him, they barely play him, Value says £13.5m I come in with a £9m bid plus 15% sell on fee to see if they would sell at that price. To be given a £57m plus 20% sell on fee.

Same with Jerome Onguene - Transfer listed, Value at £8.75m which was what I bid. They ask for £28.5m and 10% sell on.

 

I find it highly unlikely in real life that a player would get listed but then selling club ask for extortionate prices (PSG and Mbappe aside) and for a club that's just got promoted to the prem league it's an impossible task to purchase someone of the necessary quality required unless willing to agree to these extortionate and inflated figures clubs ask.

[Marc Vaughan]

2 hours ago, kopfan1977 said:

@Marc Vaughan

This issue is an annoyance.

For instance - Amadou Onana - Everton have  transfer listed him, they barely play him, Value says £13.5m I come in with a £9m bid plus 15% sell on fee to see if they would sell at that price. To be given a £57m plus 20% sell on fee.

Same with Jerome Onguene - Transfer listed, Value at £8.75m which was what I bid. They ask for £28.5m and 10% sell on.

I find it highly unlikely in real life that a player would get listed but then selling club ask for extortionate prices (PSG and Mbappe aside) and for a club that's just got promoted to the prem league it's an impossible task to purchase someone of the necessary quality required unless willing to agree to these extortionate and inflated figures clubs ask.

I can understand that - can you give me a little more context? ... the way things work is that if the club have listed the player they'll generally accept less than if its the player trying to force the transfer ... and both are dependent on the length of contract that the player has left.

For instance if a has requested a transfer but is still active in the team and playing well then the club would likely want top dollar for him, if he's requested a transfer and not part of the squad or acting a prat then they'll let leave cheaper unless they're considered of sufficient quality that the club expect they can get a bidding war going etc.

(if the club themselves have listed the player they'll generally let them go for a fairly reasonable price - bearing in mind contract length, number of interested clubs etc.)

PS - I am tuning this side of things for next years game, both your offers for players but also how negotiations work when selling.

[kopfan1977]

1 hour ago, Marc Vaughan said:

I can understand that - can you give me a little more context? ... the way things work is that if the club have listed the player they'll generally accept less than if its the player trying to force the transfer ... and both are dependent on the length of contract that the player has left.

For instance if a has requested a transfer but is still active in the team and playing well then the club would likely want top dollar for him, if he's requested a transfer and not part of the squad or acting a prat then they'll let leave cheaper unless they're considered of sufficient quality that the club expect they can get a bidding war going etc.

(if the club themselves have listed the player they'll generally let them go for a fairly reasonable price - bearing in mind contract length, number of interested clubs etc.)

PS - I am tuning this side of things for next years game, both your offers for players but also how negotiations work when selling.

With regards to Onana - Don't remember how long he had on  his contract. But was a bit part player at Everton - Played just 12 times the past season (In the championship) and was listed by the club. No other clubs interested in him, Just my bid. I did manage to pry him away on a season long loan for Zero wages which is a win win in my eyes.

 

Onguene was out on loan last season, went back to Frankfurt I believe where he was immediately listed. Didn't check out his stats for last season so no idea how much he played. I moved on from him to someone else and managed to bag myself a £2m discount off a Chelsea squad player instead.