343 & 532

[AndrikoDS]

Hi all,

I want to experiment with more that just a 433 (I've been using it in FM for nearly decades at this point!) and want to try a 343 and a 532, built for lower league teams.

As far as I can tell (my football is minimal and obsolete) 343 is a more attacking formation and 532 a more defensive minded way to go. Can anyone recommend somewhere with some helpful guides etc about this tactics? I've looked around and they don't seem to get much coverage.

Thanks!

A

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, AndrikoDS said:

Hi all,

I want to experiment with more that just a 433 (I've been using it in FM for nearly decades at this point!) and want to try a 343 and a 532, built for lower league teams.

As far as I can tell (my football is minimal and obsolete) 343 is a more attacking formation and 532 a more defensive minded way to go. Can anyone recommend somewhere with some helpful guides etc about this tactics? I've looked around and they don't seem to get much coverage.

Thanks!

A

Key component for getting a back 5 system to work for me is making sure both outside center backs are capable of progressing the ball via dribbling or passing. BPD + Dribble more or a WCB (s) are what I use to achieve this.

I would say both systems are defence first formations, but provide more attacking outlet than the traditional 4-4-2. 3-4-3 will place more of a burden on your double pivot and striker, and 5-3-2 will place that stress on your wingbacks and DM.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[AndrikoDS]

Thanks Cloud - I see a lot of talk about 'double pivot' and don't really understand it, could you explain what it is?

Would I be right in thinking that with a back three, especially in the 343, or utilising aggressive wing backs, the outside defenders become ersatz full backs? Would this make it a challenging tactic to pull off in lower leagues?

Also, with the 343 - where is the best place to put the 4 - in the middle of the field or the WB/DM positions, or is it something that makes little difference?

Similar with the forward 3 - could I think of them similar to a 433 set up using wingbacks behind them?

Thanks!

[Cloud9]

11 hours ago, AndrikoDS said:

Thanks Cloud - I see a lot of talk about 'double pivot' and don't really understand it, could you explain what it is?

Would I be right in thinking that with a back three, especially in the 343, or utilising aggressive wing backs, the outside defenders become ersatz full backs? Would this make it a challenging tactic to pull off in lower leagues?

Also, with the 343 - where is the best place to put the 4 - in the middle of the field or the WB/DM positions, or is it something that makes little difference?

Similar with the forward 3 - could I think of them similar to a 433 set up using wingbacks behind them?

Thanks!

Double pivot is two midfielders in the DM or CM strata, reworked on 23. The appeal is largely that they screen the defensive line and let you create a complete DM in two players rather than putting the entire burden on a solo 6. 

• On the outside defenders: WCB(s) is a bit more aggressive of the two (will go forward off the ball), while the BPD w/dribble more will only run forward with it himself. If you end up using super aggressive wingbacks, you might want the wide defenders to play a bit more conservatively, but that puts a big burden on the WB roles to progress the ball on top of their other duties. 
  • The wide central defenders are key for a 5 at the back tactic since they let you break the lines & progress the ball. Otherwise you can get pinned in / be overly reliant on your pivot or wingbacks to move up the pitch. 
• On 3-4-3, depends if you're running two AMC or two wide attackers. If you're running the space ship (two AMC ahead of a double pivot), you can bully the opposition midfield 4 v 3/2. Can work with high lines or a mid block. This is probably the most difficult to break down, but does leave your striker with a lot to do in the goal scoring department and the wingbacks will need to be full of running to provide width and defensive responsibilities. 
• If you run with two wide attackers + a forward, it differs to the 4-3-3 in giving away midfield control w/your back 3. Makes you tough to break down and explosive/direct on counter, could be nice on a low block.

A lot will depend on the profile of players you use for the wingbacks, AMC/wingers, and team width. 3 at the back systems ease center back vs striker battles and let you play some shorter CBs than you might be able to with a two.

• Don't think the level of the team should impact your ability to play a 5 at the back. I would take a look at the quality of the wingbacks in your squad before opting to run a 5 at the back system though

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cloud9

[AndrikoDS]

Great, thanks Cloud, that's really helpful and makes a lot of sense.

 

Still not 100% sure on the double pivot, but I think I will be able to figure it out - is it a way to allow myself a more flexible set up that still protects the defense, but without having the just stick an Anchor or DM(d) there?

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, AndrikoDS said:

Great, thanks Cloud, that's really helpful and makes a lot of sense.

 

Still not 100% sure on the double pivot, but I think I will be able to figure it out - is it a way to allow myself a more flexible set up that still protects the defense, but without having the just stick an Anchor or DM(d) there?

On when to to choose a double pivot:

• Provides a symmetrical defence in possession, a solo 6 can leave you lopsided in a midfield three when one goes forward. A 10 then has a solid base w/ the pivot to operate in front of.
  • This is stronger in game than it is IRL imo. 
• If you want to play a SV.
• You want height on your DM. If you've got a short, talented DM, playing him with a tall partner is an easy fix to his limitation. Height makes you a lot less susceptible to getting caught out on the counter via a long ball. 
  • Similarly, having a combo like DLP(s) + BWM(d) gives you a destroyer + an artist, passing/defence in two distinct players. You can cherry pick the attributes you want a little more for each role.
  • A lot of modern top teams run a 4-3-3, but are heavily reliant on the quality of their 6. Newcastle & Man city are almost entirely dependent on Bruno Guimarães and Rodri for example. Finding two distinct model players for your pivot is a lot easier, unless your scouts bring in an especially talented boy.
• Playing out from the back.
  • Two options (two pivots) to play to. Add this to a back 3, and you're very difficult to press high.
  • Playing through the press is a lot easier (although on FM23 I think the game struggles to represent this properly). 
• Prevents the opposition from man marking your solo DM, which a solo 6 can struggle with.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cloud9

[AndrikoDS]

Brillliant! That's really helpful, I think I get it now!