FM24: Positional Play, Rotations, and Relationism (Tactic Added)

[kazm]

11 hours ago, Jambo98 said:

Great writing and explanations as ever........but are you really creating that shape using those roles and duties? 

I struggle to see where the CWB would fit into the desired shape and the HB might drop into the backline, but the Libero will step out... so how do you get your "3"?

 

IDF-d + HB + BP-d = back 3

[04texag]

12 hours ago, Jambo98 said:

Great writing and explanations as ever........but are you really creating that shape using those roles and duties? 

I struggle to see where the CWB would fit into the desired shape and the HB might drop into the backline, but the Libero will step out... so how do you get your "3"?

 

Have you tried it and watched the movements? The back three forms out of the IFD, BPD and the HB. When the CWB pushes well forward, the HB drops in just behind him out wide. That 4231 tactic is a very fluid tactic though, and not a highly structured 325. As I mentioned, that 4231 plays a lot like that, but it's not truly that. 

On the flip side, I actually came here this morning to post my in progress 3 box 3 tactic. It's been delightful, and much more faithful and structured as a 325, or moreso a 3 box 3.

First, links to articles. I don't have the time to write up too much, so here are some reference articles I suggest anyone curious about this stuff to read, they are very good. 

https://spielverlagerung.com/2021/03/22/how-guardiola-3-2-2-3-ultimately-solved-the-defending-meta/

https://tacticallyspeaking.co.uk/2023/04/28/comparing-3-box-3-and-2-3-5/

Seriously, read those links.

Now, for a fun 3 box 3 that has been creating a lot of what I'm looking for. 3 at the back, rest defense varied between the back 5 and attacking from the front 5. The box 4 in the middle (In game it's much more pronounced then the pass map/data analyst screens show). And the striker drops deep some as well to form the top of the pentagon.

My FM23 save got bugged. Super bummed. So I've started a new save with Benfica. I don't have the best players at either flanks FB spot, they don't really match up well with what I'm wanting to do, but they are good players for other tactics, so they will do for now.

Aside from wanting to do the 3 box 3, I was intrigued by the infamous Ozil to the Arsenal (who seemingly I can't link to his username anymore  ). He now exclusively posts on X, formerly known as twitter.

 

My tactic works to do a very similar shape in attack. I've got Joao Mario moving central and being the prime link for the team. Luis moves left to create room for the right IWB. Joao Neves (sign this kid, he's been great) gets well forward due to his CM-A role, which the winger has given space for. And so the DLF naturally will settle more to the left away from the CM-A. The RMD-A is a role I've really been trying to make work. The though behind it is that with the left full back tucking in and staying deep, there should be ample space naturally for the RMD to find and operate in, so the shape and role match up well.

I'd say give it a go. I occasionally have been using play out from the back as an option to draw the defense out more if they are sitting back in a block, as the weaker Premier League clubs will do against Benfica.

Here's the start to our brand new save's first season, which includes Goncalo Ramos having been out injured.

 

 

 

[jc577]

53 minutes ago, 04texag said:

The RMD-A is a role I've really been trying to make work. The though behind it is that with the left full back tucking in and staying deep, there should be ample space naturally for the RMD to find and operate in, so the shape and role match up well.

 

How is the RMD playing out? I've been wanting to play with one for a while, but in recent editions of the game it's been pretty ineffectual (too wide) for my liking.

[04texag]

23 minutes ago, jc577 said:

How is the RMD playing out? I've been wanting to play with one for a while, but in recent editions of the game it's been pretty ineffectual (too wide) for my liking.

Pretty well. In my new save, I don't have the right player here yet. I'm using Angel Di Maria, and his mentals and technicals are great, but his physicals are waning being that he's 35. Still, he's close to turning it on.

 

His rating is high, performing well, but could be better. 

I do have some PI's with this tactic.

RMD - Take more risks, dribble more.

AP has the most...., everyone else is fairly vanilla

[Herry]

Great thread. Thanks a lot! I found the play out from the back settings super interesting. Loads of things you talked about are relatable. I am super happy that I was not just paranoid or bad at the game lol.

I definitely saw the pass-around-then-hoof in older FMs insanely annoying - don't see it this FM though when I have top players for PL. Also there were older FMs when players refuse to pass back, so when all forward options are blocked they would hoof. Then there were older FMs when opp CBs would make 100+ passes in a game to rack up 60% possession when your CMs don't join the press.

All these are less common now (or simply gone for good). It is nice to apply real-life examples in FM.

That being said, can you talk about your understanding of OI settings? I try to prioritise them over aggressive team instructions (much higher D line; Much more urgent etc.) to achieve high press but cannot decide say close down vs tight marking.

[Herry]

One issue I have seen in FM24 is that wingers get overly aggressive if they get the ball in build up.

Using this picture as reference, if blue team's left winger (#21) gets the ball now, I would really want him to pass back or inside to recycle as first options. He is too far from the opp goal and at this phase the main goal is to get the whole team up the pitch.

However in FM24 this player as W(A) or IW(S) will very often decide to take on two(!) opponents to dribble inside. The play will break down and we concede a counter attack to the opp.

For now, I am managing by setting overall mentality to Balanced, but I expect that discourage my other players to try risky passes in the final thirds. Would be great to have an option to shift mentalities in different phases of the game.

[RealDeal_3]

1 hour ago, Herry said:

One issue I have seen in FM24 is that wingers get overly aggressive if they get the ball in build up.

Using this picture as reference, if blue team's left winger (#21) gets the ball now, I would really want him to pass back or inside to recycle as first options. He is too far from the opp goal and at this phase the main goal is to get the whole team up the pitch.

However in FM24 this player as W(A) or IW(S) will very often decide to take on two(!) opponents to dribble inside. The play will break down and we concede a counter attack to the opp.

For now, I am managing by setting overall mentality to Balanced, but I expect that discourage my other players to try risky passes in the final thirds. Would be great to have an option to shift mentalities in different phases of the game.

Have you tried using wide midfielders and using PIs to get your desired behavior? I haven’t tested it but I would imagine the WM would be the best option for a ball retention winger. 

[Herry]

2 hours ago, RealDeal_3 said:

Have you tried using wide midfielders and using PIs to get your desired behavior? I haven’t tested it but I would imagine the WM would be the best option for a ball retention winger. 

That's an interesting idea and I will give it a go. My suspicion is always that the PIs are fine, but the high mentality makes him go crazy even in the build up phase. I do want my attacking winger to take on players as he is more a Sterling than a Bernardo Silva. Just don't do it at the half way line so often.

[04texag]

I've had success before using the AP out on the wing in the AMR slot, but you don't want to have too many playmakers. 

An option I would try over any others is to use the IW-S, tell him to stay wide, and hold up the ball. 

A good player with dribbling skills will still make runs, but it will tone it down some. The instruction is meant to have the player hold up play long enough for other support players and runners around them to move into position. Which, sounds like exactly what you're looking for. 

 

You can also add this instruction to a winger on support if I remember correctly. Out of town and don't have the game handy atm. 

[Diverisma158]

En 25/10/2023 a las 20:54, bennymc dijo:

This is a fascinating read @04texag. I've understood the basics about positional play, but never seen someone really try and dig into it in FM like this.

Have applied what you've said so far into my own save specifically for big matches using different roles and I'm already finding my mind racing with new ideas. Very much appreciate your efforts and looking forward to reading more.

 

 

any chance to share the 3 tactics?? looking interesting!! ty!!

[04texag]

On 27/04/2024 at 16:26, Diverisma158 said:

any chance to share the 3 tactics?? looking interesting!! ty!!

I haven’t messed with the tactics as shown at the beginning of the thread post game updates, so not entirely sure if they need some tweaks or not. But, I should test them out. I’ll do so and possibly share back here.