Is it fine that my LWB creates nothing?

[playerblair]

I am currently experimenting in versus mode with this 5-3-2 and tbh I am quite happy with the tactic, it defends well and creates chances. However, a common theme is the LWB attacking contributions being dwarfed by the RWB. I am aware the RWB has more of support system with the F9 and MEZ, and having the LCM as a CM(s) is intentional to avoid him becoming an AM in possession so we not to open on the counter. Using as WCB(s) on that side is something I have tried to support him more,but there is no difference.

Should I just accept the LWB as it is since the tactic works well anyways?

[vrig]

15 minutes ago, playerblair said:

Should I just accept the LWB as it is since the tactic works well anyways?

Probably, yeah.

Something you could try that should be non-invasive to the rest of the setup could be having the LWB aim crosses to the near post, where your goalscorer is.

[Cloud9]

53 minutes ago, playerblair said:

I am currently experimenting in versus mode with this 5-3-2 and tbh I am quite happy with the tactic, it defends well and creates chances. However, a common theme is the LWB attacking contributions being dwarfed by the RWB. I am aware the RWB has more of support system with the F9 and MEZ, and having the LCM as a CM(s) is intentional to avoid him becoming an AM in possession so we not to open on the counter. Using as WCB(s) on that side is something I have tried to support him more,but there is no difference.

Should I just accept the LWB as it is since the tactic works well anyways?

Remove look for overlap left and he'll go forward more. At the moment he's waiting for the WCB(s) to overlap him. Imo a WB(a) + a WB(s) leaves you fairly exposed on that side, I would drop him to a WB(s) as well. Since you're running a counter attack, you probably want to get rid of the overlap on the right as well, it will slow you down. 

• You've also got two players screening your DM, so going for a more expressive role like a Regista could work nicely to play progressive passes to the WB going forward (as he is fairly isolated).
• A CAR instead of a CM(s) will give the left WB a partner in possession, and leave him less isolated. 
  • Your right WB has the MEZ(a) to go forward with as his buddy (there's also the F9 dropping back on the right side, where as on the left the AF is mostly doing his own thing waiting for the counter to launch).
    • You might then consider a different supporting role instead of the F9 that can hold up the ball and play with his back to goal.
  • Going more direct will help him get more involved as well, which will benefit the 5-3-2 in general. 
• Trap outside doesn't make a lot of sense with this tactic.
  • You've got tons of players in the center of the pitch and usually 5 at the back center backs are a bit shorter.
  • "Trap inside" + "stop crosses" can create a nice pressing trap to take advantage of the strengths of your setup. 
• Check your distribution via the pass maps, if the goalkeeper is distributing to the right sided CB repeatedly then your left wingback won't be involved as much as the play will likely progress down the right. 
  • Since you're running a screened DLP you can just distribute to the DLP w/roll it out + comes deep to get ball trait to get the ball to your talented boy quickly and for more balanced progression between the left and the right. 
  • The pass maps themselves will be a strong indicator of whether or not you should worry about his productivity.

WB(a) is a big ask for a player, since he has to be able to run to the byline. WB strata roles are already physically demanding, so the player himself may not be capable of executing what's being asked. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[playerblair]

22 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Remove look for overlap left and he'll go forward more. At the moment he's waiting for the WCB(s) to overlap him. Imo a WB(a) + a WB(s) leaves you fairly exposed on that side, I would drop him to a WB(s) as well. Since you're running a counter attack, you probably want to get rid of the overlap on the right as well, it will slow you down. 

Interesting, I didn't think that WB would be waiting for WCB to overlap, always though it would be the CM waiting the the run of the WB.

25 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Trap outside doesn't make a lot of sense with this tactic.

• You've got tons of players in the center of the pitch and usually 5 at the back center backs are a bit shorter.
• "Trap inside" + "stop crosses" can create a nice pressing trap to take advantage of the strengths of your setup. 

 

Part of the plan was to fill the midfield physical player + a trigger press & tight marking on MC, so that if the opposition dared to progress centrally we could win the ball back. Also, I don't have play for set pieces on in the screenshot but I intend to fully utilise set piece recruit tall and ariel dominate CB. This way crosses coming from wide areas, via trap outside, could easily be dealt with.

 

31 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

A CAR instead of a CM(s) will give the left WB a partner in possession, and leave him less isolated. 

I'll also give this a try. I imagine the CAR won't try to become a 10 like a BBM or MEZ will.

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, playerblair said:

Interesting, I didn't think that WB would be waiting for WCB to overlap, always though it would be the CM waiting the the run of the WB.

Part of the plan was to fill the midfield physical player + a trigger press & tight marking on MC, so that if the opposition dared to progress centrally we could win the ball back. Also, I don't have play for set pieces on in the screenshot but I intend to fully utilise set piece recruit tall and ariel dominate CB. This way crosses coming from wide areas, via trap outside, could easily be dealt with.

 

I'll also give this a try. I imagine the CAR won't try to become a 10 like a BBM or MEZ will.

Those instructions can be a little confusing, if you've loaded the midfield with physical players, then trapping inside will be especially strong. Into the mixer  I've used a similarly setup with "mark tighter" on the wingbacks and "show onto foot" to help funnel them into the physical boys. Since you've got 3 center backs and a DM, if they're beaten in the attempt to win the ball you've got plenty of cover to prevent a goal scoring opportunity. 

CAR works very nicely with the wingback in possession. He moves between the boxes, just not into them. This is quite nice in a 5-3-2, since the big worry is the striker pairing/wingbacks being left overly isolated. This differs from the BBM/MEZ (who both have roam) who will make more attacking runs into the opposition box. I would say CM(s)/CAR/BWM(s) all have the potential to fill similar roles in a setup. 

Here's an ongoing discussion on how/when to use the Trap Inside/Outside Instructions which might be useful to you. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[playerblair]

22 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Here's an ongoing discussion on how/when to use the Trap Inside/Outside Instructions which might be useful to you. 

I have through the thread and I have realised that my understanding of the pressing traps instructions were wrong. I had thought that trap outside would make the team narrower to stop the opposition from playing through the middle. Now that I know what they truly do I will look to trap inside like you suggested. Thanks for the help.