Player valuations still make no sense at all, and it's still a problem

[Costav]

Could it be that the players' values is very high DURING the season because it reflects the fact that if a club (think about MLS/Saudi/Chinese ones) want to buy the player they need to spend more because you cannot replace him?

Afterthis assumptions it seems to me reasonable to have such fluctuations once the season is over (we may argue the realisticity of the system, but at least there is a logic behind it)

[fm_08/09]

I am using the original database. Made no changes.
I started a new season(2035/36), kept a save. will do two more saves, before CL ends and after it does.

Also, I don't think it is a build a nation specific bug. I had the same issue with my Pro Vercelli players values in FM21. In that save I had the best RB in the world valued at only €12M.

[fm_08/09]

9 hours ago, Costav said:

Could it be that the players' values is very high DURING the season because it reflects the fact that if a club (think about MLS/Saudi/Chinese ones) want to buy the player they need to spend more because you cannot replace him?

Afterthis assumptions it seems to me reasonable to have such fluctuations once the season is over (we may argue the realisticity of the system, but at least there is a logic behind it)

The player was not wanted by any club in either screenshots. I was CL and Serie A holder in the first one and we ended defending both titles with him being one of our best players with an avrg. rating 7.22. 

[fm_08/09]

Here at the end of the season, a few players lost half their transfer values! 
Dieter Pfeiffer valued at €133M in June is Valued at €56M in July! In less than a month, he loses 78M in value! if this is not a bug then, I don't know what a bug is

Edited July 19 by fm_08/09

[scythian12]

57 minutes ago, fm_08/09 said:

Here at the end of the season, a few players lost half their transfer values! 
Dieter Pfeiffer valued at €133M in June is Valued at €56M in July! In less than a month, he loses 78M in value! if this is not a bug then, I don't know what a bug is

https://community.sports-interactive.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2024-early-access-bugs-tracker/finances-training-medical-and-development-centres/

[-Jef-]

Isn't value just an estimated evaluation by one of your staff members and not a fixed amount determined by the game? So a 2 user career could show different values for every player per user. Also, value is determined by loads of things. But the evaluation spikes and differences are indeed just a bit too much

[fm_08/09]

10 hours ago, scythian12 said:

https://community.sports-interactive.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2024-early-access-bugs-tracker/finances-training-medical-and-development-centres/

Thanks, already uploaded my saves

[fm_08/09]

6 hours ago, -Jef- said:

Isn't value just an estimated evaluation by one of your staff members and not a fixed amount determined by the game? So a 2 user career could show different values for every player per user. Also, value is determined by loads of things. But the evaluation spikes and differences are indeed just a bit too much

The things is, it’s unclear how the values are determined. At least not to me! 
even if it is an evaluation by my staff, it should not be 76M different

Imagine as a team that is built for buying young players and selling them for value, the game makes it really difficult for my team (started in third tier Italian leagues) to survive and keep challenging. 
even though I have 3 CL and 2/3 leagues in the past 3 years, add to that europa league and conference league! Having done well in the CL for past 6-7 years, I still don’t get in sponsorship anything close to Milan Inter Juve or EPL teams! 
Juve has been mid table for 10 seasons and still get around €100M+ while I get €50m. 
the financial aspect of the game does not allow smaller teams to challenge because of some hard coded restrictions. 

[sporadicsmiles]

Let me just add a tip on here for a way to control how you can control the valuation. You can set the valuation in the transfer tab for a player. The player will there tell you what they think they are worth. If you are happy with that, set the valuation there and you can reject offers safely. You need to revisit it frequently to check you are not too high/low. 

I do this with every player who is has "wnt" during a transfer window.

[santy001]

The game will reassess values at certain points, seeing a change in values between June and July isn't that strange when you consider FM tends to do a lot of its end of season processing at that point. It's always worth sharing bug posts and save games to get it double checked. However, the change to the player value system is that it's there to serve as a loose guide rather than anything definitive. 

The star system is the same, a loose guide and not definitive, the letter rating assigned by scouts is another example of this. Trying to rely on the current version of player values as something definitive is the wrong way to approach it because it ultimately comes down to what clubs will bid any way. 

If you've got a standout player valued at around £70m that another club wants they can keep negotiating up to £200m+ in other situations if you've got a £120m valued player who wants out, has only a couple of years left on their contract and is kicking up a fuss the AI might low ball you in the £20m-£30m range. In some of those instances when trying to offload such a player I've had one club come in absolutely low-balling me but then another AI team has offered me a reasonable bid in the £70m range. 

If no one is bidding for your player valued at £150m in June and no one is bidding for your player valued at £70m in July - what has actually changed? No one is bidding for the player in either situation and so you've got no idea what value an AI team will assign to the player.

[fm_08/09]

2 hours ago, santy001 said:

The game will reassess values at certain points, seeing a change in values between June and July isn't that strange when you consider FM tends to do a lot of its end of season processing at that point. It's always worth sharing bug posts and save games to get it double checked. However, the change to the player value system is that it's there to serve as a loose guide rather than anything definitive. 

The star system is the same, a loose guide and not definitive, the letter rating assigned by scouts is another example of this. Trying to rely on the current version of player values as something definitive is the wrong way to approach it because it ultimately comes down to what clubs will bid any way. 

If you've got a standout player valued at around £70m that another club wants they can keep negotiating up to £200m+ in other situations if you've got a £120m valued player who wants out, has only a couple of years left on their contract and is kicking up a fuss the AI might low ball you in the £20m-£30m range. In some of those instances when trying to offload such a player I've had one club come in absolutely low-balling me but then another AI team has offered me a reasonable bid in the £70m range. 

If no one is bidding for your player valued at £150m in June and no one is bidding for your player valued at £70m in July - what has actually changed? No one is bidding for the player in either situation and so you've got no idea what value an AI team will assign to the player.

It is true that I had a player that was valued at €100m but negotiated Newcastle to pay 202m for him, but that is only one case in many where I had to sell players in July for half what they were worth a little over a month ago in May. 

In my case, in the latest transfer market, I had a player who has a long term contract who was valued at 133m in may, the value dropped by 76m to 57m during the transfer market when teams make offers, and then went back to 155m after the transfer market was closed. I reported the bug and game saves from before and after in the link below.

The problem for people who play small teams, is that when we want to loan a youngster from big teams (where young players are hoarded and listed for loan), we have to pay unrealistic 1m a month to loan such players, or pay 100m transfer fees to sign them. Add to the inability to sell our best players for similar values, it becomes almost an impossible job to catch up with the big teams.

When in 2nd division, we can almost loan any player for close to nothing per month from big teams, but try to loan the same player the next season when you are in the 1st division, they will cost you 12m in loan fees. Also,

a) Why would a young player who never played in a high division, from the big teams cost 100m+ to sign.
b) Why would the parent club request 15m loan fees when they want the said player to get first team experience and is listed for loan.


Note: This is not be negative or any such thing, it is the price tags are a bit confusing
I appreciate your response and the time you put in replying to all our questions and posts

 

Edited July 21 by fm_08/09

[santy001]

When it comes to loaning players, if values are resulting in clubs making illogical decisions in terms of player development then that's definitely something to be looked at from a bug perspective. But it's a very different thing to check if high value youngsters = high loan demands. But as you mention at the same time the demands seem to change when reaching a higher level so it may be something else involved rather than the value of the player. 

[-Jef-]

13 hours ago, santy001 said:

The game will reassess values at certain points, seeing a change in values between June and July isn't that strange when you consider FM tends to do a lot of its end of season processing at that point. It's always worth sharing bug posts and save games to get it double checked. However, the change to the player value system is that it's there to serve as a loose guide rather than anything definitive. 

The star system is the same, a loose guide and not definitive, the letter rating assigned by scouts is another example of this. Trying to rely on the current version of player values as something definitive is the wrong way to approach it because it ultimately comes down to what clubs will bid any way. 

If you've got a standout player valued at around £70m that another club wants they can keep negotiating up to £200m+ in other situations if you've got a £120m valued player who wants out, has only a couple of years left on their contract and is kicking up a fuss the AI might low ball you in the £20m-£30m range. In some of those instances when trying to offload such a player I've had one club come in absolutely low-balling me but then another AI team has offered me a reasonable bid in the £70m range. 

If no one is bidding for your player valued at £150m in June and no one is bidding for your player valued at £70m in July - what has actually changed? No one is bidding for the player in either situation and so you've got no idea what value an AI team will assign to the player.

Exactly this. I am managing 9th most reputabke team in Croatia (even tho we won the league Leicester style) and my most prized possession is an 18yr old regen who is valued at 3m, his agent moaned about me rejecting offers and he agreed that 8m is a fair price. I managed to negotiate it to 14m + 35% of next sale.

[NineCloudNine]

20 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Let me just add a tip on here for a way to control how you can control the valuation. You can set the valuation in the transfer tab for a player. The player will there tell you what they think they are worth. If you are happy with that, set the valuation there and you can reject offers safely. You need to revisit it frequently to check you are not too high/low. 

I do this with every player who is has "wnt" during a transfer window.

This is a really good tip - very easy to miss in FM’s quagmire of a UI 

[scythian12]

43 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

This is a really good tip - very easy to miss in FM’s quagmire of a UI 

Yes, but also what the players considers fair is also only dependent on this very unreliable and extremely fluctuating game appraisal. Also any release clauses the player (or an AI DoF) hinge completely on it.

[sporadicsmiles]

5 hours ago, scythian12 said:

Yes, but also what the players considers fair is also only dependent on this very unreliable and extremely fluctuating game appraisal. Also any release clauses the player (or an AI DoF) hinge completely on it.

Indeed, if the player is valuing himself too low, then I will ignore it and deal with an unhappy player. Most times I find that the valuation works and I'd probably accept the offer at that value if it came in. Not a fix for issues, but at least something proactive to do to have some control.

[robkmoloney]

Hello, 

 

I am 15+ years into a save with St Patrick's Athletic in the Rep. of Ireland. The fluctuation of the player value has become extremely frustrating.  I'm not sure whether its because of how the Irish league aligns with the rest of the world... but here is my problem:

 

The Irish league is ranked 16th in the world. I have got to the QF of the Champions League the last 4 seasons and I have accumulated a lot of very high quality wonderkids. Of course, there will be interest. However, for example,  my Serbian wonderkid who at the end of the season is valued at 11 million, was 6 months ago attracting offers of over 140 million total. I am guessing a player's value is based on form? In my circumstances, I get these big offers just as I am mid-way through the league phase of the CL. Maybe this is why I get the offers so high at this stage? The game has calculated that it would be a 'difficult' time to sell a player considering I cannot replace him due to the transfer window being closed? This is only one example of what I would consider half of my squad. this means that at the end of the season, I cannot sell players unless I went to sell them for well below what they are worth, forcing me to sell players mid season.

 

To conclude, I feel that I am at a disadvantage due to the fact that teams are selling players for a lot more than what I can receive, unless I sell mid season. I just don't think value should drop that drastically, 11 to 140 just seems extreme to me. 

 

Let me know your thoughts, maybe this has always been the case and I have never noticed it. Maybe there is a reason for it all. 

 

Thanks!

[fm_08/09]

4 hours ago, robkmoloney said:

Hello, 

 

I am 15+ years into a save with St Patrick's Athletic in the Rep. of Ireland. The fluctuation of the player value has become extremely frustrating.  I'm not sure whether its because of how the Irish league aligns with the rest of the world... but here is my problem:

 

The Irish league is ranked 16th in the world. I have got to the QF of the Champions League the last 4 seasons and I have accumulated a lot of very high quality wonderkids. Of course, there will be interest. However, for example,  my Serbian wonderkid who at the end of the season is valued at 11 million, was 6 months ago attracting offers of over 140 million total. I am guessing a player's value is based on form? In my circumstances, I get these big offers just as I am mid-way through the league phase of the CL. Maybe this is why I get the offers so high at this stage? The game has calculated that it would be a 'difficult' time to sell a player considering I cannot replace him due to the transfer window being closed? This is only one example of what I would consider half of my squad. this means that at the end of the season, I cannot sell players unless I went to sell them for well below what they are worth, forcing me to sell players mid season.

 

To conclude, I feel that I am at a disadvantage due to the fact that teams are selling players for a lot more than what I can receive, unless I sell mid season. I just don't think value should drop that drastically, 11 to 140 just seems extreme to me. 

 

Let me know your thoughts, maybe this has always been the case and I have never noticed it. Maybe there is a reason for it all. 

 

Thanks!

I recall having the same issue back in FM21 if not earlier. However, back then my players values were always low! I was the best team in the world, had one of the best RBs in Serie A, valued at €2m

[kiwityke1983]

On 23/05/2024 at 12:45, scythian12 said:

 

Do you think any big team would bid for a rotational youth prospect in such a league? (TBF it still amazes me that they do ingame)

 t

This literally happens all the time IRL.

The team I support Barnsley in L1 has a player called Fabio Jalo. He's played 34 games mainly as a substitute in the EFL League One / Bristol Street Motors trophy and scored 4 goals as a striker.

Even before he made his debut for the first team there were reports that all the big Prem teams were after him and a Serie A side bid (750k) for him in January.

Last season we had a striker on loan from Man City called Slobodan Tedic who they signed from Cukaricki in Serbia for anywhere between 2-4 million depending on who you believe after he'd made about 60 appearances.

That's just two that come to mind without even thinking about it, if I actually thought about it I'm sure I could get to double figures without much issue.