Defence-First Football Tactics (Also Home To Real Sociedad Fans)

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, DavutOzkan said:

I have gotten fully invested in managing a proper Athletic Club game this FM, and it has been my most enjoyable FM save ever, partly because of the cantera, but also because Spain is a great country to manage in for the reasons you've mentioned. I just wish SI would fix some of the annoyances regarding registration and salary caps though. It has also helped me to focus more on tactics than ever before. I used to be a simple "set it and forget it" type of manager in FM, but having to develop a tactic around the newgens has been interesting, and difficult at times. 

I am at the point know where I place top-three in the league consistently but Real Madrid have won something like seven or eight LaLiga titles in a row, and I just cannot seem to get close to them. 

Totally agree👍 LaLiga is like no other. But another thing I forgot to mention in my last update is the salary cap in 2nd Division. I love it actually! I think it's something like 165 000 euros for the whole registered squad. Which doesn't seem that much and it really isn't. Except u19 and youth contract players don't count. So every year it becomes almost like a puzzle trying to fit in the youngsters I want to get more experience at a high enough level (it's about 31st or 32nd in pyramid in my save so about as good as Bundesliga 2 or 2nd Dutch division). Its a great way to develop young players before they can crack the 1st team. But once their salaries get big, then have to look for loans.

And you are also trying to keep the quality of the squad good enough because it is afterall Spanish 2nd Division and you are competing against Barca's and Real Madrid's reserve squads. Competition is surprisingly stiff and last year Real Sociedad's reserve team was only one point away from relegation. It was so exciting to watch the race come down to the wire. And you really don't want your B team to get relegated because then next season your youths won't develop as well. Aside from Portugal and Holland I can't think of any other leagues like this (in Germany farm teams can only stay in 3rd division unfortunately).

Edited June 25 by crusadertsar

[rmelo0387]

On 23/06/2024 at 00:54, crusadertsar said:

Defence-First 4-2-3-1 Continued

First Some Context

The curious thing with playing any Football Manager is that it’s a kind of game where the best rewards
are reaped only some 500 hours into your playtime with it, preferably with the same save. In my opinion
it is largely because FM is a game that is built on procedural content in which, after a season or two, no
virtual footballing world is the same. And if you are lucky enough, or most likely persistent and patient
enough, to sink more than a handful of seasons into the same save then the true potential of FM starts
to open up. The real fun begins! Because I am someone who tends to watch almost every match on at
least extended highlights, and fiddle endlessly with tactics, by the time I need more than one hand to
count the number of elapsed seasons, I’m already starting to get into the “endphase” of any given FM
game cycle (Summertime every year since 2013).

Amazing thing with FM, is that every time you play the game and advance the virtual clock, there is a
chance that something could happen which could push its virtual football world further away from the real footballing reality. Old sleeping giants might rise to dominate the top division, or an old powerful club might sink to new lows. Or Newcastle might win the Champions League trophy (I know right! But it really happened in my save).

Then you add the “newgen” players, which the game injects into the
simulation every spring in the game calendar, into the equation for even more fun. Given enough time
you start seeing some interesting new superstars and even old stars get shuffled around to surprising
clubs. The more time passes in the game, the more interesting it gets!
As an example, let me give you a glimpse into Real Sociedad club in my longest running FM24 save, now
in 2031 (eight years into the simulation).

I started this save in the autumn of 2023 (both in real time and in game time) when FM24 was still in
Beta. From then on, my only club for 6.5 seasons in-game and over 500 hours in real-time has ended up being my long-beloved Real Sociedad in LaLiga.

Fast-forward to February 2030. A streak of bad form and I found myself on the wrong end of a board-
room gang-bang. A promise was made to not play my long-time keeper Alex Remiro (for aren’t
goalkeepers the perfect scapegoats for all team troubles?).

 

Then a few weeks later I prompted to break that promise by playing Alex in two matches. It was an easy
choice at that time because my other board-room-endorsed keeper was recovering from a moderate
injury. So there I was, after nearly seven years with the same club, without a job, but with plenty of hard choices to make. Which brings me to my current story. The story, which to me at least, perfectly
illustrates the beautiful joy of playing any Football Manager late in its yearly cycle (usually summer of any year and 4-5 month before the next FM iteration comes out) going as far back as the early 2000s.

The main thing that I learned over all these years playing Football Manager is that you should not be
afraid to change things up (and not only tactically) because you never know how it's going to affect the
game world and where it will bring you. And this becomes more and more apparent the longer you play
the same save.

So there I was, sacked by my favourite club but looking to make the best of the situation. I ended up taking AC Milan job because their long-time legendary manager Carlo Ancelotti just retired. AC Milan has been one of my favourite clubs even before I started playing FM (you want to guess why?).

So the job seemed a tempting one. And perhaps an opportunity to test a new 4-2-3-1 tactic?

To make it short and sweet, the tactic proved to be very good indeed and fit Milan's squad like a glove. With almost no player transfers I was able to win almost everything with them (except for Champions
League).

 

Yet, all that this sweet Treble seemed to do was fuel even more my appetite to win something big
with my Sociedad and their handcrafted, Basque-packed (thanks to me haha) squad. And because I waited an opportunity presented itself!

When Los Txuri-Urdin's manager was tempted away by the bigger riches of Chelsea and greater glory of Premiere League, I was overjoyed to be presented with another opportunity to manage in San Sebastien. Perhaps the winning tactic from Serie A could also work well in LaLiga? Afterall it was a Defence-First system that helped me to win the league with the least goals conceded and the most goals scored. 

 

My 4-2-3-1 Tactic Role Break Down:

My tactic largely stayed the same throughout my season in Italy, but there were a few tactical tweaks which I would like to discuss and show how they apply to Real Sociedad.

1) Regista - the most Italian of all FM roles and one that can make aging AMC playmakers useful again. 

Also, my Serie A experience has inspired me to finally relax and put a regista in my double pivot! Also thank you to my Brazilian reader from twitter Rafael for suggesting that regista is probably the best use of aging Oyarzabal's very good technical skills. Mikel might not have the same legs and stamina but his vision and passing are better than ever. I am hoping to get another 2-3 seasons from him (and maybe crack the 600 lifetime club appearances mark). 

The thing with regista is that it's basically a more aggressive deep-lying playmaker which offers a more dynamic and unpredictable outlet for passes from the backline to the attackers. And unlike Roaming Playmaker, who will now get further forward and into the AMC strata (due to positional play programming), the regista will still mainly stay deep in line with his DM partner. So in an otherwise conservative,  "boring" tactic, a regista should inject just the right amount of unpredictability and flair. 

The regista/DM(S) pairing will still remain defensively solid enough to allow our fullback and wingback more freedom to advance. The reason why I chose these two roles is because they can offer varied movement on their respective flanks. The Fullback (A) is still primarily a defensive role even with the more attacking mentality. Hence why I decided to put him next to my more progressive regista. A fullback will cover the defensive quarter of the field and push up only when needed, while a wingback will be much more proactive in his attacking movement along his side of the field. Therefore wingbacks usually work best when you either have: 1) no wingers on his side of field or 2) there is attacking inside forward in front of the wingback. While if you have a traditional wingers or wide midfielders you’re probably best off with a simple fullback behind them. I believe that all tactics can be better of with some tactical variety. Thus having both a winger and a inside forward working alongside a wingback and a fullback can only make your tactic more varied and balanced. And that, in my opinion, is a sign of a good Defence-First tactic. 

2) Why I use both Fullback and Wingback?

As a general rule of thumb in FM:

FB (A) will overlap wide players in the CM strata (as in a 4-4-2 or 4-1-4-1) and will crosses early.

WB (A) will overlaps wide players in the AMC strata (like in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3), and will try to dribble more and to get to the byline before crossing. Wingbacks also have a higher starting position than fullbacks too. Generally you will want your more technical players to play as a fullback while one who is better in defensive attributes (such as tackling and marking) to be the Fullback (even one with attack duty). 

Jon Pacheco, a most loyal team leader, and one of the best fullbacks I have had the pleasure to ever manage at Real Sociedad. His attributes might not be much to look at but its all you usually need for a solid fullback. 

3) The Story of Two Strikers -  Flexibility in Attack

This is what my front four looks like. For some of the matches at least.

 

 

I decided to play my AMC centrally again, rather then in offset asymmetric set-up. This way the player can decide which of the two half-spaces he can roam into. It allows for more tactical flexibility and unpredictability. All three of my AM roles remain the same while the striker will change depending on the situation. Let me explain by showing you my first-choice striker and the best youth product of Real Sociedad cantera academy, Cristian Villanueva (2025 grad). 

The kid is a wizard in his favoured Advanced Forward role. Which means that he excels at spearheading our attack, running in behind the opponent's defenders and generally giving the opposition defensive line major headaches by pinning them back into their own half at all times. So I tend to play him when I am the underdog facing a side that will try to press us more and attempt to play in our own half. Similarly in most Away matches, the opponent will go more on the offensive and try to press our defences. So that's another situation where Cristian will be allowed to play in the striker role. So that he can use his lightning-fast speed to its full potential during inevitable counter-attacks against these aggressively, pressing sides. His other strength is his versatility. When not pushing back the opposition defensive line, I have him bomb forward as our left winger. He definitely has the attributes for that role too. Then who is my striker you may ask? I do a little reshuffle and a few little role changes.

 

So when we are favoured to win (or just playing at home against an equally-matched side), on come my DLF Bellmunt and Shadow Striker Chechu. Bellmunt will hold up the ball and try to play more passes to my two half-space attackers, the Shadow Striker and Inside Forward. As you can see, asymmetry is back, mainly because I want SS and IF focus on using two different half-spaces. We also become a much more methodical side that prefers to keep hold of the ball and slowly pass it towards opposition goal. Slow and steady wins the race, or breaks through those pesky parked buses. Along with the switch of striker, there is also a pretty significant switch in the AMC role. To take the full advantage of the situation, the type of player I use has to change. Whereas before I needed Aimar, your typical flashy playmaker, to play a mostly supporting role (even on attack duty) behind AF Villanueva, now I have Shadow Striker Chechu bombing forward to take advantage of the space that opens up due to my Deep-lying Forward's movement. Chechu may not be a world-beater but he has just the perfect attributes for his very focused task.

It always amazes me how the tactic can change so much just from 1 or 2 role tweaks. Truly, the reason why I love Football Manager! Sometimes, it's the simple things that make all the difference. 

 

TO BE CONTINUED in 2031-32 season with Real Sociedad ...

 

Ihor, man, couldn't be more flattered

Btw, I've been using this tactic with my Sociedad full of canteranos this season, and it's been a beast. After 12 games in La Liga, we've scored 47 GOALS and suffered just 8. Just a defeat 1-2 to Madrid away (and we were better most of the match). Also won 4-0 against Barcelona, and the best... 8-0 against Bilbao. 

Simply... Wow. 

 

At the UCL, so far, so good as well. 

4 matches, 4 wins. Including 5-0 against Dortmund. 

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, rmelo0387 said:

Ihor, man, couldn't be more flattered

Btw, I've been using this tactic with my Sociedad full of canteranos this season, and it's been a beast. After 12 games in La Liga, we've scored 47 GOALS and suffered just 8. Just a defeat 1-2 to Madrid away (and we were better most of the match). Also won 4-0 against Barcelona, and the best... 8-0 against Bilbao. 

Simply... Wow. 

 

At the UCL, so far, so good as well. 

4 matches, 4 wins. Including 5-0 against Dortmund. 

Those are amazing results! 👏 Thank you for sharing the feedback and earlier advice mate. Have you made any big adjustments to the tactic by the way? And are you mostly playing on Balanced team mentality?

Edited June 26 by crusadertsar

[rmelo0387]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Those are amazing result! 👏 Thank you for sharing the feedback and earlier advice mate. Have you made any big adjustments to the tactic by the way? And are you mostly playing on Balanced team mentality?

No, I thank you! 😅

 

Actually, I've been using the same tactic you posted. Didn't feel the need, till now, of changing to positive, mostly because we're playing like we should play. It's very secure defensively and scoring for fun. There are some canteranos that are at least elite level (I'll try to post them later), but I think the tactic would still work very well without them.

Speaking of academy, I'm on my 10th season managing La Real, and we have the best youth system of the world! 

 

[rmelo0387]

Those are all canteranos and the proud of Zubieta.

All very good, but the most exciting one (besides Ortiz) is Gil.

Only 18, a very high ceiling and already a total footballer.

[crusadertsar]

4 minutes ago, rmelo0387 said:

Those are all canteranos and the proud of Zubieta.

All very good, but the most exciting one (besides Ortiz) is Gil.

Only 18, a very high ceiling and already a total footballer.

Holy crap 😳 those are very good young footballers indeed! Lucky you 

Did you change your Head of Youth Development? I think I still have the original one. Forget the name. I just remember he has a high determination ahd good personality so I kept him. But his favourite formation is 433, and not 4231 unfortunately.

[rmelo0387]

15 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Holy crap 😳 those are very good young footballers indeed! Lucky you 

Did you change your Head of Youth Development? I think I still have the original one. Forget the name. I just remember he has a high determination ahd good personality so I kept him. But his favourite formation is 433, and not 4231 unfortunately.

I changed him after the first season, I think. Also forgot his name. 

My primary focus in seasons 1 and 2 was investing heavily in the academy and signing the right staff. Also setting up the youth training based on T.I.P.S. since the first crop. 

Besides those five, there were others sold to the PL clubs or PSG. But only those that I knew I could replace with others already in the pipeline. 

I have 21 players in my first team. 

12 of them made at Zubieta. 

 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb rmelo0387:

My primary focus in seasons 1 and 2 was investing heavily in the academy and signing the right staff. Also setting up the youth training based on T.I.P.S. since the first crop.

It's ringing a bell in my head but can you please further describe your approach in youth development? Like what are priorities in signing staff and how did you set up training, individual training and schedules?

Thanks!

[crusadertsar]

4 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

It's ringing a bell in my head but can you please further describe your approach in youth development? Like what are priorities in signing staff and how did you set up training, individual training and schedules?

Thanks!

I'll second that! Would also love to read more detail about this 

[DeleAlli]

 

On 27/06/2024 at 05:14, crusadertsar said:

Those are amazing results! 👏 Thank you for sharing the feedback and earlier advice mate. Have you made any big adjustments to the tactic by the way? And are you mostly playing on Balanced team mentality?

Hi mate 

I dont have much time to play fm24 this year, but i was wondering if anyone had a tactic i could download and plug it in. 

I love a good bit of defending and dont have enough time to read all thies pages sorry, so dose anyone have a good one i could use and enjoy a bit of a defensive masterclass Please.

Thanks Anyone who has a tactic 

Edited June 27 by DeleAlli

[rmelo0387]

11 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I'll second that! Would also love to read more detail about this 

Well, I can't take credits for that 😅

I understand very little about training and development, but searching in some FM related pages, I found the training and youth development guide from a certain JonasMorais very, very useful. 

https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm24-training-guide-and-schedules-by-jonasmorais.html

The link is for his training schedules, but there's also a link to his youth development guide in the same article. 

The filters for searching the right staff are very simple. I always look for staff who, at least, has a driven mentality, and preferred formations most close to I've been setting up my team. Also the attributes of determination, motivating and discipline are at least 14 (13 for my youth staff) 

 

About that, I had to be more flexible about the attributes for the under 19 staff at the first 2 seasons. But revamped it completely since the 3rd season.

[rmelo0387]

17 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

It's ringing a bell in my head but can you please further describe your approach in youth development? Like what are priorities in signing staff and how did you set up training, individual training and schedules?

Thanks!

About individual training, I mostly follow the recommendations of my staff. But, at certain point, I focus at the attributes which will be more important for the role in my tactic. Or for the position. Some are fundamental, regardless of the position. Like passing, endurance, or ball control. 

Most of the season, the intensity level of the training I set at double intensity. 

 

[crusadertsar]

Mini Update

I just wanted to give a little update on the progress of the latest tactic. Since switching back to Real Sociedad, the tactic has been performing as expected. We are not destroying opponents left and right. That's not the point since its not one of those "win-all" tactics. It will perform according to the strength of the team. I would say that from watching the result we are performing as expected, likely to finish 4-5th in the League, as long as we win against the teams that we expect to win again and not draw too many games. 

One of the highlights so far has been the victory over rival Bilbao. Ended up beating them 3-0. But what I found rather neat was our positional heat map in possession (in top right of the screenshot). I really like that shape that the players form here. It is something I see in most games where I use the before-mentioned 4-2-3-1 DM Asymmetric shape (offset AMC and Striker). It is just real nice to see how the two fullbacks and defenders line up. Then the the double pivot which maintains discipline in the middle. The four forwards (W, AMC, ST and IF) spread across the front end of the formation is exactly what I like to see. 

The only tweak that I am thinking of implementing right now is maybe increasing the duty of the right Wingback from Support to Attack. I would love to see him operate higher than the left fullback. Especially since the DM(S) next to him to told to hold position. On Balanced Team mentality it should be a relatively safe combo.

Tying Manchester United (3-3 AWAY at Old Trafford) had also turned out to be pleasant surprises and further testaments to the defensive strength of the set up. I believe that attacking a bit more attacking "OUMPH" via the Wingback(A) and maybe a few strategic transfers in January would help us to turn many future draws into victories. Unfortunately we had to contest with quite a few injuries and player departures so far this season which made it into less of a positive start than I was hoping for. Especially loosing our 2nd choice left winger Iker Bakero to Aston Villa. But hopefully the 70 million we got back for him will go far in reinvestment in the attack at the upcoming transfer period.

 

I already have a few ideas on how the money can be reinvested in the team:

Xabier is another young Basque winger, who could potentially develop to be much better than Iker (who I believe despite his relatively young age already hit his ability ceiling while with us). And Barcelona are willing to part with him for around 50 million.

Or perhaps (if I hopefully have enough money left over) -  a versatile Greek international who could help us to fill in the under-supported left Fullback position (especially given how Pacheko is aging). Despite not being Basque, Akis nevertheless fits the mold of the Defence-First player very well.

TO BE CONTINUED ...

Edited Saturday at 11:09 by crusadertsar

[Delial]

Hi @crusadertsar !

I follow your work for a long time now and really enjoy your way of playing FM, especially the fact that you're not obsessed with overpowered tactics.

But regarding your last post, I must say that I don't find your results very good. You seem to have pretty expensive (good?) players but 5 win on 13 games played doesn't feel like a successful run. And like I said, I know you want your team to have the results expected regarding their proper level. But I feel like you could perform better without turning into an overpowered high pressing tactic...

What do you think?

My message is not aggressive in any way, I really enjoy your work and my saves are always hugely inspired by what you do.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Delial said:

Hi @crusadertsar !

I follow your work for a long time now and really enjoy your way of playing FM, especially the fact that you're not obsessed with overpowered tactics.

But regarding your last post, I must say that I don't find your results very good. You seem to have pretty expensive (good?) players but 5 win on 13 games played doesn't feel like a successful run. And like I said, I know you want your team to have the results expected regarding their proper level. But I feel like you could perform better without turning into an overpowered high pressing tactic...

What do you think?

My message is not aggressive in any way, I really enjoy your work and my saves are always hugely inspired by what you do.

Hey bud! I agree we didn't have the best start but I didn't think the results were that bad haha, considering the matches we had. Out of the three losses, two were not surprising to me. I haven't been able to do much against Barcelona and Real Madrid for a while now. I feel lucky usually if we can convert one of those matches into a draw. The only loss that felt like we got cheated was the Cadiz one. That should have been a win and 3 more points for us. We outshoot them and dominated for most of the match but it was just not meant to be. 

Personally, I think the quality of the players makes a big difference in FM24. Hence why with AC Milan the tactic was overperforming. That team was just really good, even if young. My Real Sociedad is not on the same level. But that's what happens when you only try to sign players from one specific region, for the most part. A lot of my young players are very highly valued (with big buyout clauses because I want to keep them in the team and not get poached) but they are not fully developed yet. Quite a few with only 2, 2.5 ability (but 4-4.5 potential stars) who are playing top minutes. My problem I that I'm avoiding to buy players who are not Basque but would probably be better in the roles.

Yet I am not too worried because with this save my objectives are not really trophies. Not right now. It's too continue building from within, via my academy. And trying to keep Champions League football every year. For that I need min 5th place finish, which is where we are basically projected, if we get few more wins and less draws. I'm not really trying to compete with Barca and Real Madrid for the title don't think that would be realistic.

But if you have any suggestions to improve my tactic then I'm always open to hearing them. Just keep in mind that I am not looking to play any of the current overpowered META tactics (but you already knew that ). I still prefer to keep more clean sheets than score a ton of goals. Just play sensible realistic football.

Edited Friday at 23:53 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

I follow everything here @crusadertsar with a lot of interest and put the essence into my Billericay YAC save. I hope it’s fine to talk about that as well.

First I want to mention that I like your the reaction on the „critics“ which was mentioned above and the „critics“ as well.

Yes you had a bad start and I hope you can turn it around for better. I have a lot of years on my back, to say so, in 2071 we suffered a lot of bad starts even if the team is strong. We overperformed every single year but of course sometimes there are crucial injuries, transfers out or red cards and penalties. You cannot control the whole game. But you have a clear philosophy and should stick to it because Real Sociedad is not meant to compete where they actually are. Congratulations on your good work.

As negative feedback is always the more important and more helpful. What can we do better?

I have nearly the same tactic with some tweaks, regarding my philosophy of eleven machines on the pitch. Brave, aggressive players, we are the complete underdogs every year and we want to see the white in the eyes of our opponents. We want to tackle them hard and take risks regaining the ball. I have developed an excel sheet to check out our DNA every half year and track the progress of the first Team and U18s. It’s quite rewarding to see the development in the key attributes. The most Ricay DNA player is Ross Beadle, he is more machine than man. Like 20 aggression and 18 bravery. He is placed in the centre to fight off anything. I love him. 
 

yet what can we do better, I also feel that sometimes in some games there is lacking a punch but I think we do a lot positive and it’s maybe more like tweaking in game according to what presents on the pitch. Maybe a WB(A) in some situations where it presents. A W(A) instead of the IF(S) works wonders sometimes just watch how he goes unmarked.

[crusadertsar]

4 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

I follow everything here @crusadertsar with a lot of interest and put the essence into my Billericay YAC save. I hope it’s fine to talk about that as well.

First I want to mention that I like your the reaction on the „critics“ which was mentioned above and the „critics“ as well.

Yes you had a bad start and I hope you can turn it around for better. I have a lot of years on my back, to say so, in 2071 we suffered a lot of bad starts even if the team is strong. We overperformed every single year but of course sometimes there are crucial injuries, transfers out or red cards and penalties. You cannot control the whole game. But you have a clear philosophy and should stick to it because Real Sociedad is not meant to compete where they actually are. Congratulations on your good work.

As negative feedback is always the more important and more helpful. What can we do better?

I have nearly the same tactic with some tweaks, regarding my philosophy of eleven machines on the pitch. Brave, aggressive players, we are the complete underdogs every year and we want to see the white in the eyes of our opponents. We want to tackle them hard and take risks regaining the ball. I have developed an excel sheet to check out our DNA every half year and track the progress of the first Team and U18s. It’s quite rewarding to see the development in the key attributes. The most Ricay DNA player is Ross Beadle, he is more machine than man. Like 20 aggression and 18 bravery. He is placed in the centre to fight off anything. I love him. 
 

yet what can we do better, I also feel that sometimes in some games there is lacking a punch but I think we do a lot positive and it’s maybe more like tweaking in game according to what presents on the pitch. Maybe a WB(A) in some situations where it presents. A W(A) instead of the IF(S) works wonders sometimes just watch how he goes unmarked.

Agreed 100%  Of course I don't want to get sacked (again haha) but it's all about the journey and not the end result to me. I love developing the academy and gaining incremental improvements in our club standing. If this were to become some kind of superhero save where I won everything every season, I think I would lose interest real fast. It's one of the reasons I could never really get into managing "big" clubs. And besides my biggest "trophy" every season is seeing this particular message:

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:18 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

The best @crusadertsar I am a long way from it. 4th attempt in avoiding relegation in Championship. The best trophy now is just that for us.

[El Payaso]

This topic has worked as a big inspiration for me in my Torino save where I have gone from the attempt to play counter-attacking football to more catenaccio style with a low-block and fairly passive closing down. 

How I would change your current approach is going a bit more towards defensive style of play. The formation itself is fairly aggressive and with an attacking duty attacking midfielder it probably almost works like a 4-2-4 which a really aggressive formation which was mainly used on older FMs when searching for a goal at the end of a game. It is also worth noting that both of your full-backs are going to be contributing a lot in defense and the midfield doesn't really have a holding player either. 

This combined with aggressive closing down, high defensive line and counter-press should see you struggling defensively which you also currently are? 

How I would change things around would be looking the team instructions again and take a notch or two out of the aggression in them. I would also look at the player roles: if you want to keep your wide players and attacking midfielder like they are at the moment, I would focus on the double pivot and make them more of a holding duo. Maybe I would go in a hybrid in this case and make the left hand side more defensively balanced while still keeping Oyarzabal as the heartbeat of the team, maybe as a roaming playmaker. On the other side I would make Zubimendi more of a golfing option which would allow Barrenetxea to bomb forward. 

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, El Payaso said:

This topic has worked as a big inspiration for me in my Torino save where I have gone from the attempt to play counter-attacking football to more catenaccio style with a low-block and fairly passive closing down. 

How I would change your current approach is going a bit more towards defensive style of play. The formation itself is fairly aggressive and with an attacking duty attacking midfielder it probably almost works like a 4-2-4 which a really aggressive formation which was mainly used on older FMs when searching for a goal at the end of a game. It is also worth noting that both of your full-backs are going to be contributing a lot in defense and the midfield doesn't really have a holding player either. 

This combined with aggressive closing down, high defensive line and counter-press should see you struggling defensively which you also currently are? 

How I would change things around would be looking the team instructions again and take a notch or two out of the aggression in them. I would also look at the player roles: if you want to keep your wide players and attacking midfielder like they are at the moment, I would focus on the double pivot and make them more of a holding duo. Maybe I would go in a hybrid in this case and make the left hand side more defensively balanced while still keeping Oyarzabal as the heartbeat of the team, maybe as a roaming playmaker. On the other side I would make Zubimendi more of a golfing option which would allow Barrenetxea to bomb forward. 

Those are great suggestions! I just thought that I already had a holding midfielder in my DM double pivot. With new positional play in FM24, Regista is actually a much safer option than RPM. My previous DLP made us more stagnant in going forward (hence all of those draws) And my DM has "hold position". I just prefer Support role with it's higher individual mentality especially on a lower Balanced team mentality.

But I'll try to implement your suggestions in 2nd half of season 

Edited Saturday at 13:55 by crusadertsar

[El Payaso]

Yep, Regista is more of a solid option in terms of defending. The RPM was mainly a suggestion if you make changes on the roles either side of him as that would probably demand more from the left-sided DM in terms of buildup. 

[HanziZoloman]

vor einer Stunde schrieb El Payaso:

Yep, Regista is more of a solid option in terms of defending. The RPM was mainly a suggestion if you make changes on the roles either side of him as that would probably demand more from the left-sided DM in terms of buildup. 

But the regista is also roaming around and requires only few defensive attributes. I have difficulties in holding the nil and keep a clean sheet. We concede every match. I have a similar tactic but a with standard Defense Line and higher press (my players are slow and attacking from a mid block seems to demanding, they‘d lose all pace challenges.

[rmelo0387]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Those are great suggestions! I just thought that I already had a holding midfielder in my DM double pivot. With new positional play in FM24, Regista is actually a much safer option than RPM. My previous DLP made us more stagnant in going forward (hence all of those draws) And my DM has "hold position". I just prefer Support role with it's higher individual mentality especially on a lower Balanced team mentality.

But I'll try to implement your suggestions in 2nd half of season 

Hey, Ihor, forgot to ask. 

How well your Oyarzábal has been performing as a regista? 

Mine has already 16 goals contribution this season in 26 matches (7 goals/9 assists). 

But I'm already thinking about his next season, which can be his last 🥲

[El Payaso]

14 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

But the regista is also roaming around and requires only few defensive attributes. I have difficulties in holding the nil and keep a clean sheet. We concede every match. I have a similar tactic but a with standard Defense Line and higher press (my players are slow and attacking from a mid block seems to demanding, they‘d lose all pace challenges.

The problem with many of FM roles is that they don't explain it well how different roles defend and move in general.

I would say that Regista is probably something between DLP and RPM and he doesn't drift that much to the flanks as the RPM does. 

This is something I found on Reddit:

Quote

The important stats for the roles pretty much match up to the differences I've noticed in game.

The RPM is a more mobile and physical player who roams much further from his original starting position than a regista does. The RPM is a like a bee buzzing around everywhere on the field while the regista sticks mostly to one spot and generally sits back controlling all the play compared to the all-action RPM who wants to actively go where the ball is at all times. If the RPM is a good dribbler, he will dribble a lot, frequently going on end to end slalom runs from defense to the forwards which I haven't noticed registas doing this.

Despite the regista role having no defensive stat requirements, they are much more reliable defenders than RPMs due to the rather static nature of the role rather than the RPM who will very frequently be caught out of position due to his willingness to roam everywhere

 

Back in the day it used to be quite a crazy role. I remember using Regista at AS Roma with Daniele De Rossi almost ten years ago and he was often even the highest player on the pitch ending attacks. Combine this with Nainngolan and Totti and you're in for a treat. 

I tend to take a notch back in these situations. It is quite common that when I change my double pivot from VOL(S) - DM(D) to a DM(S) - A (D) that the last 15 minutes if the game doesn't have a single attacking highlight for the opposition on comprehensive which tells me that the system is working. 

I think many people are afraid of using a low-block but for me it works very well most of the time. Obviously things go wrong at times, like they did for example in my season opener against Salernitana where I conceded 4 times against a fairly poor side. Those are the things that sometimes happen and when the snowball starts to roll, it is often hard to stop. 

[crusadertsar]

26 minutes ago, rmelo0387 said:

Hey, Ihor, forgot to ask. 

How well your Oyarzábal has been performing as a regista? 

Mine has already 16 goals contribution this season in 26 matches (7 goals/9 assists). 

But I'm already thinking about his next season, which can be his last 🥲

He hasn't scored any goals unfortunately 😕 I don't know what's happening with my tactic. I feel like I need to go back to the drawing board. It's definitely not performing as well as it did at AC Milan. That's to be expected but I just thought we would be doing a bit better than 6th or 7th in December.

Edited Saturday at 16:07 by crusadertsar

[keeper#1]

I'm definitely going to need some 4-2-3-1 defensive stability in my Swansea save.  I went very attacking this past season working on the philosophy of "the best defense is a good offense."  We are a year ahead of schedule after a crazy final day.

We went into the final day in 4th place on 92 points behind both Nottingham Forest and Leeds who had 95 points.  We needed to win against Hull City and hope that both clubs lost road games to West Brom and Coventry while making up some goal difference as well.  We did our job thrashing Hull, 3-0, which improved our goal difference to +46.  We got the help we needed from both Coventry and West Brom, who soundly beat Forest (+44) and Leeds (+43) by large enough margins to allow us to move past both clubs and into second place.  The playoffs are going to be a war with Forest and Leeds both on 95 points, Luton on 89 points and Norwich on 83 points.

 

[rmelo0387]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

He hasn't scored any goals unfortunately 😕 I don't know what's happening with my tactic. I feel like I need to go back to the drawing board. It's definitely not performing as well as it did at AC Milan. That's to be expected but I just thought we would be doing a bit better than 6th or 7th in December.

🫤

 

I've been quite satisfied with the tactic.

Some matches, I set it up a notch with positive mentality, particularly against teams playing a 5-3-2 and cautious mentality, to gain a bit more of aggression and urge in possession. 

I definitely think that the level of the squad helps, but even rotating I feel we've been very good. 

This season, we sit in 3th, after Madrid and Atlético. But we have the best attack and 2th best defense. 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb rmelo0387:

🫤

 

I've been quite satisfied with the tactic.

Some matches, I set it up a notch with positive mentality, particularly against teams playing a 5-3-2 and cautious mentality, to gain a bit more of aggression and urge in possession. 

I definitely think that the level of the squad helps, but even rotating I feel we've been very good. 

This season, we sit in 3th, after Madrid and Atlético. But we have the best attack and 2th best defense. 

How goes your interpretation of the tactic? Especially the defensive structure is giving me headaches.

Had a bad start too. We‘re conceding loads again. Most teams press high and then we‘ve got trouble in the build up.
I am thinking about dropping one midfielder as a HB to help build from the back. 

but then there is only a DM(S) or BMW(S) left in the centre.

I believe one has to adapt more. If we get the ball up into the final third it’s tough for the opponents, with high press and wingplay they counter the weakest parts of the tactic and then it’s trouble for our 4231
I am thinking about how to counter that. Maybe one can try and just pass over the press with a HB and a TF(S) / DLF(S) to receive the long ball (more direct play) and let the wingmen attack space together with a pushing AMC(A). Once the opponent gets that they drop the pressing (?)

the strongest area of the 4231 are the two midfielders and the AMC which gives plenty of room to get creative.

Edited Sunday at 11:52 by HanziZoloman

[rmelo0387]

17 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

How goes your interpretation of the tactic? Especially the defensive structure is giving me headaches.

I've been using the same instructions and roles of the original one. 

Playing on balanced mentality has been pretty secure and solid all season till now. But I have one of the best defenses of the La Liga, with some very good players. 

I'll try to share it later. 

[El Payaso]

And as I participated already in this thread: this was the starting point for me with Torino. 

During the first season I actually set to a two-striker formation and one AM instead of this but the main principles were the same. 

The attacking minded attacking midfielder turned into a advanced forward and the second striker was operating as a pressing forward, deep-lying forward or target forward based on the situation. 

In defense I have gotten rid of the libero and replaced this with a ball-playing centre-back, standard centre-back and a wide centre-back trio.

The double pivot usually works as segundo volante and defensive midfielder in a defend duty. 

I nowadays also use a regular wing-back on the left and a complete wing-back on the right. 

I don't use any other player instruction except that I allow the AM to move into channels and roam. 

When defending a lead, I tend to change the left-handed wing-back to a defend duty, change the DM(D) to an Anchor, CWB to WB(S) and the right-side forward to PF(D). 

In team instructions, I have gotten rid of lower defensive line and step up more and replaced this by triggering the press slightly more often as I want us to be fairly aggressive in our own defensive third. 

I usually start with cautious mentality and change to defensive when defending a lead or while facing teams like Inter away. I also usually add get stuck in when defending a lead or when happy with a draw. 

Here is how I did in general in season 1:

https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/585299-fm-2024-torino-fc-sogni-di-battere-la-juve/?do=findComment&comment=14432253

Edited Sunday at 14:08 by El Payaso

[rmelo0387]

@crusadertsar, dunno if it's the right topic for it, but...

 

I've been thinking about changing my system again next season, and go for a 433 or 343 inspired by, you now, Cruyff. 

 

Do you think the engine of this edition is good enough to replicate this style of football? 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, rmelo0387 said:

@crusadertsar, dunno if it's the right topic for it, but...

 

I've been thinking about changing my system again next season, and go for a 433 or 343 inspired by, you now, Cruyff. 

 

Do you think the engine of this edition is good enough to replicate this style of football? 

Oh Yeah! It's perfect for it  especially because of all the positional play changes.

[Falahk]

2 hours ago, rmelo0387 said:

@crusadertsar, dunno if it's the right topic for it, but...

 

I've been thinking about changing my system again next season, and go for a 433 or 343 inspired by, you now, Cruyff. 

 

Do you think the engine of this edition is good enough to replicate this style of football? 

It's probably easier then ever before, since you can form the midfield diamond in possession from a more regular formation, like a 4-3-3 

[Jakey8]

Hello! I’ve been following this thread for such a long time and have thoroughly enjoyed the wisdom  shared. Now honestly, I’m not a veteran of fm but I do love the tactical chess like side of the game we all love so try to implement my philosophies.

My favourite managers are Mourinho and Conte so I base all my setups with that in mind. With the Euros being on, I’ve set my new Fiorentina up under the influence of Antonio Contes Euro 2016 Italian side. I’m not sure if anyone else quite remembers this team as well but I loved the grit and underdog spirit of that team who were viewed as an aging withered team with little to give. The team played as tight cohesive unit defensively and exploded on the counter with the likes of Sunderland’s Giaccherini and the big man Graziano Pelle. 
 

Anyway here is what I’ve gone with as my squad and how it is going so far. Thanks in advance for anyone taking the time to read this! Sorry if i blabbered on it’s my first post 😂.