crusadertsar Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, DavutOzkan said: I have gotten fully invested in managing a proper Athletic Club game this FM, and it has been my most enjoyable FM save ever, partly because of the cantera, but also because Spain is a great country to manage in for the reasons you've mentioned. I just wish SI would fix some of the annoyances regarding registration and salary caps though. It has also helped me to focus more on tactics than ever before. I used to be a simple "set it and forget it" type of manager in FM, but having to develop a tactic around the newgens has been interesting, and difficult at times. I am at the point know where I place top-three in the league consistently but Real Madrid have won something like seven or eight LaLiga titles in a row, and I just cannot seem to get close to them. Totally agree👍 LaLiga is like no other. But another thing I forgot to mention in my last update is the salary cap in 2nd Division. I love it actually! I think it's something like 165 000 euros for the whole registered squad. Which doesn't seem that much and it really isn't. Except u19 and youth contract players don't count. So every year it becomes almost like a puzzle trying to fit in the youngsters I want to get more experience at a high enough level (it's about 31st or 32nd in pyramid in my save so about as good as Bundesliga 2 or 2nd Dutch division). Its a great way to develop young players before they can crack the 1st team. But once their salaries get big, then have to look for loans. And you are also trying to keep the quality of the squad good enough because it is afterall Spanish 2nd Division and you are competing against Barca's and Real Madrid's reserve squads. Competition is surprisingly stiff and last year Real Sociedad's reserve team was only one point away from relegation. It was so exciting to watch the race come down to the wire. And you really don't want your B team to get relegated because then next season your youths won't develop as well. Aside from Portugal and Holland I can't think of any other leagues like this (in Germany farm teams can only stay in 3rd division unfortunately). Edited June 25 by crusadertsar 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 On 23/06/2024 at 00:54, crusadertsar said: Defence-First 4-2-3-1 Continued First Some Context The curious thing with playing any Football Manager is that it’s a kind of game where the best rewards are reaped only some 500 hours into your playtime with it, preferably with the same save. In my opinion it is largely because FM is a game that is built on procedural content in which, after a season or two, no virtual footballing world is the same. And if you are lucky enough, or most likely persistent and patient enough, to sink more than a handful of seasons into the same save then the true potential of FM starts to open up. The real fun begins! Because I am someone who tends to watch almost every match on at least extended highlights, and fiddle endlessly with tactics, by the time I need more than one hand to count the number of elapsed seasons, I’m already starting to get into the “endphase” of any given FM game cycle (Summertime every year since 2013). Amazing thing with FM, is that every time you play the game and advance the virtual clock, there is a chance that something could happen which could push its virtual football world further away from the real footballing reality. Old sleeping giants might rise to dominate the top division, or an old powerful club might sink to new lows. Or Newcastle might win the Champions League trophy (I know right! But it really happened in my save). Then you add the “newgen” players, which the game injects into the simulation every spring in the game calendar, into the equation for even more fun. Given enough time you start seeing some interesting new superstars and even old stars get shuffled around to surprising clubs. The more time passes in the game, the more interesting it gets! As an example, let me give you a glimpse into Real Sociedad club in my longest running FM24 save, now in 2031 (eight years into the simulation). I started this save in the autumn of 2023 (both in real time and in game time) when FM24 was still in Beta. From then on, my only club for 6.5 seasons in-game and over 500 hours in real-time has ended up being my long-beloved Real Sociedad in LaLiga. Fast-forward to February 2030. A streak of bad form and I found myself on the wrong end of a board- room gang-bang. A promise was made to not play my long-time keeper Alex Remiro (for aren’t goalkeepers the perfect scapegoats for all team troubles?). Then a few weeks later I prompted to break that promise by playing Alex in two matches. It was an easy choice at that time because my other board-room-endorsed keeper was recovering from a moderate injury. So there I was, after nearly seven years with the same club, without a job, but with plenty of hard choices to make. Which brings me to my current story. The story, which to me at least, perfectly illustrates the beautiful joy of playing any Football Manager late in its yearly cycle (usually summer of any year and 4-5 month before the next FM iteration comes out) going as far back as the early 2000s. The main thing that I learned over all these years playing Football Manager is that you should not be afraid to change things up (and not only tactically) because you never know how it's going to affect the game world and where it will bring you. And this becomes more and more apparent the longer you play the same save. So there I was, sacked by my favourite club but looking to make the best of the situation. I ended up taking AC Milan job because their long-time legendary manager Carlo Ancelotti just retired. AC Milan has been one of my favourite clubs even before I started playing FM (you want to guess why?). So the job seemed a tempting one. And perhaps an opportunity to test a new 4-2-3-1 tactic? To make it short and sweet, the tactic proved to be very good indeed and fit Milan's squad like a glove. With almost no player transfers I was able to win almost everything with them (except for Champions League). Yet, all that this sweet Treble seemed to do was fuel even more my appetite to win something big with my Sociedad and their handcrafted, Basque-packed (thanks to me haha) squad. And because I waited an opportunity presented itself! When Los Txuri-Urdin's manager was tempted away by the bigger riches of Chelsea and greater glory of Premiere League, I was overjoyed to be presented with another opportunity to manage in San Sebastien. Perhaps the winning tactic from Serie A could also work well in LaLiga? Afterall it was a Defence-First system that helped me to win the league with the least goals conceded and the most goals scored. My 4-2-3-1 Tactic Role Break Down: My tactic largely stayed the same throughout my season in Italy, but there were a few tactical tweaks which I would like to discuss and show how they apply to Real Sociedad. 1) Regista - the most Italian of all FM roles and one that can make aging AMC playmakers useful again. Also, my Serie A experience has inspired me to finally relax and put a regista in my double pivot! Also thank you to my Brazilian reader from twitter Rafael for suggesting that regista is probably the best use of aging Oyarzabal's very good technical skills. Mikel might not have the same legs and stamina but his vision and passing are better than ever. I am hoping to get another 2-3 seasons from him (and maybe crack the 600 lifetime club appearances mark). The thing with regista is that it's basically a more aggressive deep-lying playmaker which offers a more dynamic and unpredictable outlet for passes from the backline to the attackers. And unlike Roaming Playmaker, who will now get further forward and into the AMC strata (due to positional play programming), the regista will still mainly stay deep in line with his DM partner. So in an otherwise conservative, "boring" tactic, a regista should inject just the right amount of unpredictability and flair. The regista/DM(S) pairing will still remain defensively solid enough to allow our fullback and wingback more freedom to advance. The reason why I chose these two roles is because they can offer varied movement on their respective flanks. The Fullback (A) is still primarily a defensive role even with the more attacking mentality. Hence why I decided to put him next to my more progressive regista. A fullback will cover the defensive quarter of the field and push up only when needed, while a wingback will be much more proactive in his attacking movement along his side of the field. Therefore wingbacks usually work best when you either have: 1) no wingers on his side of field or 2) there is attacking inside forward in front of the wingback. While if you have a traditional wingers or wide midfielders you’re probably best off with a simple fullback behind them. I believe that all tactics can be better of with some tactical variety. Thus having both a winger and a inside forward working alongside a wingback and a fullback can only make your tactic more varied and balanced. And that, in my opinion, is a sign of a good Defence-First tactic. 2) Why I use both Fullback and Wingback? As a general rule of thumb in FM: FB (A) will overlap wide players in the CM strata (as in a 4-4-2 or 4-1-4-1) and will crosses early. WB (A) will overlaps wide players in the AMC strata (like in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3), and will try to dribble more and to get to the byline before crossing. Wingbacks also have a higher starting position than fullbacks too. Generally you will want your more technical players to play as a fullback while one who is better in defensive attributes (such as tackling and marking) to be the Fullback (even one with attack duty). Jon Pacheco, a most loyal team leader, and one of the best fullbacks I have had the pleasure to ever manage at Real Sociedad. His attributes might not be much to look at but its all you usually need for a solid fullback. 3) The Story of Two Strikers - Flexibility in Attack This is what my front four looks like. For some of the matches at least. I decided to play my AMC centrally again, rather then in offset asymmetric set-up. This way the player can decide which of the two half-spaces he can roam into. It allows for more tactical flexibility and unpredictability. All three of my AM roles remain the same while the striker will change depending on the situation. Let me explain by showing you my first-choice striker and the best youth product of Real Sociedad cantera academy, Cristian Villanueva (2025 grad). The kid is a wizard in his favoured Advanced Forward role. Which means that he excels at spearheading our attack, running in behind the opponent's defenders and generally giving the opposition defensive line major headaches by pinning them back into their own half at all times. So I tend to play him when I am the underdog facing a side that will try to press us more and attempt to play in our own half. Similarly in most Away matches, the opponent will go more on the offensive and try to press our defences. So that's another situation where Cristian will be allowed to play in the striker role. So that he can use his lightning-fast speed to its full potential during inevitable counter-attacks against these aggressively, pressing sides. His other strength is his versatility. When not pushing back the opposition defensive line, I have him bomb forward as our left winger. He definitely has the attributes for that role too. Then who is my striker you may ask? I do a little reshuffle and a few little role changes. So when we are favoured to win (or just playing at home against an equally-matched side), on come my DLF Bellmunt and Shadow Striker Chechu. Bellmunt will hold up the ball and try to play more passes to my two half-space attackers, the Shadow Striker and Inside Forward. As you can see, asymmetry is back, mainly because I want SS and IF focus on using two different half-spaces. We also become a much more methodical side that prefers to keep hold of the ball and slowly pass it towards opposition goal. Slow and steady wins the race, or breaks through those pesky parked buses. Along with the switch of striker, there is also a pretty significant switch in the AMC role. To take the full advantage of the situation, the type of player I use has to change. Whereas before I needed Aimar, your typical flashy playmaker, to play a mostly supporting role (even on attack duty) behind AF Villanueva, now I have Shadow Striker Chechu bombing forward to take advantage of the space that opens up due to my Deep-lying Forward's movement. Chechu may not be a world-beater but he has just the perfect attributes for his very focused task. It always amazes me how the tactic can change so much just from 1 or 2 role tweaks. Truly, the reason why I love Football Manager! Sometimes, it's the simple things that make all the difference. TO BE CONTINUED in 2031-32 season with Real Sociedad ... Ihor, man, couldn't be more flattered Btw, I've been using this tactic with my Sociedad full of canteranos this season, and it's been a beast. After 12 games in La Liga, we've scored 47 GOALS and suffered just 8. Just a defeat 1-2 to Madrid away (and we were better most of the match). Also won 4-0 against Barcelona, and the best... 8-0 against Bilbao. Simply... Wow. At the UCL, so far, so good as well. 4 matches, 4 wins. Including 5-0 against Dortmund. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, rmelo0387 said: Ihor, man, couldn't be more flattered Btw, I've been using this tactic with my Sociedad full of canteranos this season, and it's been a beast. After 12 games in La Liga, we've scored 47 GOALS and suffered just 8. Just a defeat 1-2 to Madrid away (and we were better most of the match). Also won 4-0 against Barcelona, and the best... 8-0 against Bilbao. Simply... Wow. At the UCL, so far, so good as well. 4 matches, 4 wins. Including 5-0 against Dortmund. Those are amazing results! 👏 Thank you for sharing the feedback and earlier advice mate. Have you made any big adjustments to the tactic by the way? And are you mostly playing on Balanced team mentality? Edited June 26 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 hour ago, crusadertsar said: Those are amazing result! 👏 Thank you for sharing the feedback and earlier advice mate. Have you made any big adjustments to the tactic by the way? And are you mostly playing on Balanced team mentality? No, I thank you! 😅 Actually, I've been using the same tactic you posted. Didn't feel the need, till now, of changing to positive, mostly because we're playing like we should play. It's very secure defensively and scoring for fun. There are some canteranos that are at least elite level (I'll try to post them later), but I think the tactic would still work very well without them. Speaking of academy, I'm on my 10th season managing La Real, and we have the best youth system of the world! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 Those are all canteranos and the proud of Zubieta. All very good, but the most exciting one (besides Ortiz) is Gil. Only 18, a very high ceiling and already a total footballer. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 4 minutes ago, rmelo0387 said: Those are all canteranos and the proud of Zubieta. All very good, but the most exciting one (besides Ortiz) is Gil. Only 18, a very high ceiling and already a total footballer. Holy crap 😳 those are very good young footballers indeed! Lucky you Did you change your Head of Youth Development? I think I still have the original one. Forget the name. I just remember he has a high determination ahd good personality so I kept him. But his favourite formation is 433, and not 4231 unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 15 minutes ago, crusadertsar said: Holy crap 😳 those are very good young footballers indeed! Lucky you Did you change your Head of Youth Development? I think I still have the original one. Forget the name. I just remember he has a high determination ahd good personality so I kept him. But his favourite formation is 433, and not 4231 unfortunately. I changed him after the first season, I think. Also forgot his name. My primary focus in seasons 1 and 2 was investing heavily in the academy and signing the right staff. Also setting up the youth training based on T.I.P.S. since the first crop. Besides those five, there were others sold to the PL clubs or PSG. But only those that I knew I could replace with others already in the pipeline. I have 21 players in my first team. 12 of them made at Zubieta. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 vor 9 Stunden schrieb rmelo0387: My primary focus in seasons 1 and 2 was investing heavily in the academy and signing the right staff. Also setting up the youth training based on T.I.P.S. since the first crop. It's ringing a bell in my head but can you please further describe your approach in youth development? Like what are priorities in signing staff and how did you set up training, individual training and schedules? Thanks! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 4 hours ago, HanziZoloman said: It's ringing a bell in my head but can you please further describe your approach in youth development? Like what are priorities in signing staff and how did you set up training, individual training and schedules? Thanks! I'll second that! Would also love to read more detail about this 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleAlli Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) On 27/06/2024 at 05:14, crusadertsar said: Those are amazing results! 👏 Thank you for sharing the feedback and earlier advice mate. Have you made any big adjustments to the tactic by the way? And are you mostly playing on Balanced team mentality? Hi mate I dont have much time to play fm24 this year, but i was wondering if anyone had a tactic i could download and plug it in. I love a good bit of defending and dont have enough time to read all thies pages sorry, so dose anyone have a good one i could use and enjoy a bit of a defensive masterclass Please. Thanks Anyone who has a tactic Edited June 27 by DeleAlli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 11 hours ago, crusadertsar said: I'll second that! Would also love to read more detail about this Well, I can't take credits for that 😅 I understand very little about training and development, but searching in some FM related pages, I found the training and youth development guide from a certain JonasMorais very, very useful. https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm24-training-guide-and-schedules-by-jonasmorais.html The link is for his training schedules, but there's also a link to his youth development guide in the same article. The filters for searching the right staff are very simple. I always look for staff who, at least, has a driven mentality, and preferred formations most close to I've been setting up my team. Also the attributes of determination, motivating and discipline are at least 14 (13 for my youth staff) About that, I had to be more flexible about the attributes for the under 19 staff at the first 2 seasons. But revamped it completely since the 3rd season. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 17 hours ago, HanziZoloman said: It's ringing a bell in my head but can you please further describe your approach in youth development? Like what are priorities in signing staff and how did you set up training, individual training and schedules? Thanks! About individual training, I mostly follow the recommendations of my staff. But, at certain point, I focus at the attributes which will be more important for the role in my tactic. Or for the position. Some are fundamental, regardless of the position. Like passing, endurance, or ball control. Most of the season, the intensity level of the training I set at double intensity. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 (edited) Mini Update I just wanted to give a little update on the progress of the latest tactic. Since switching back to Real Sociedad, the tactic has been performing as expected. We are not destroying opponents left and right. That's not the point since its not one of those "win-all" tactics. It will perform according to the strength of the team. I would say that from watching the result we are performing as expected, likely to finish 4-5th in the League, as long as we win against the teams that we expect to win again and not draw too many games. One of the highlights so far has been the victory over rival Bilbao. Ended up beating them 3-0. But what I found rather neat was our positional heat map in possession (in top right of the screenshot). I really like that shape that the players form here. It is something I see in most games where I use the before-mentioned 4-2-3-1 DM Asymmetric shape (offset AMC and Striker). It is just real nice to see how the two fullbacks and defenders line up. Then the the double pivot which maintains discipline in the middle. The four forwards (W, AMC, ST and IF) spread across the front end of the formation is exactly what I like to see. The only tweak that I am thinking of implementing right now is maybe increasing the duty of the right Wingback from Support to Attack. I would love to see him operate higher than the left fullback. Especially since the DM(S) next to him to told to hold position. On Balanced Team mentality it should be a relatively safe combo. Tying Manchester United (3-3 AWAY at Old Trafford) had also turned out to be pleasant surprises and further testaments to the defensive strength of the set up. I believe that attacking a bit more attacking "OUMPH" via the Wingback(A) and maybe a few strategic transfers in January would help us to turn many future draws into victories. Unfortunately we had to contest with quite a few injuries and player departures so far this season which made it into less of a positive start than I was hoping for. Especially loosing our 2nd choice left winger Iker Bakero to Aston Villa. But hopefully the 70 million we got back for him will go far in reinvestment in the attack at the upcoming transfer period. I already have a few ideas on how the money can be reinvested in the team: Xabier is another young Basque winger, who could potentially develop to be much better than Iker (who I believe despite his relatively young age already hit his ability ceiling while with us). And Barcelona are willing to part with him for around 50 million. Or perhaps (if I hopefully have enough money left over) - a versatile Greek international who could help us to fill in the under-supported left Fullback position (especially given how Pacheko is aging). Despite not being Basque, Akis nevertheless fits the mold of the Defence-First player very well. TO BE CONTINUED ... Edited June 29 by crusadertsar 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delial Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Hi @crusadertsar ! I follow your work for a long time now and really enjoy your way of playing FM, especially the fact that you're not obsessed with overpowered tactics. But regarding your last post, I must say that I don't find your results very good. You seem to have pretty expensive (good?) players but 5 win on 13 games played doesn't feel like a successful run. And like I said, I know you want your team to have the results expected regarding their proper level. But I feel like you could perform better without turning into an overpowered high pressing tactic... What do you think? My message is not aggressive in any way, I really enjoy your work and my saves are always hugely inspired by what you do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Delial said: Hi @crusadertsar ! I follow your work for a long time now and really enjoy your way of playing FM, especially the fact that you're not obsessed with overpowered tactics. But regarding your last post, I must say that I don't find your results very good. You seem to have pretty expensive (good?) players but 5 win on 13 games played doesn't feel like a successful run. And like I said, I know you want your team to have the results expected regarding their proper level. But I feel like you could perform better without turning into an overpowered high pressing tactic... What do you think? My message is not aggressive in any way, I really enjoy your work and my saves are always hugely inspired by what you do. Hey bud! I agree we didn't have the best start but I didn't think the results were that bad haha, considering the matches we had. Out of the three losses, two were not surprising to me. I haven't been able to do much against Barcelona and Real Madrid for a while now. I feel lucky usually if we can convert one of those matches into a draw. The only loss that felt like we got cheated was the Cadiz one. That should have been a win and 3 more points for us. We outshoot them and dominated for most of the match but it was just not meant to be. Personally, I think the quality of the players makes a big difference in FM24. Hence why with AC Milan the tactic was overperforming. That team was just really good, even if young. My Real Sociedad is not on the same level. But that's what happens when you only try to sign players from one specific region, for the most part. A lot of my young players are very highly valued (with big buyout clauses because I want to keep them in the team and not get poached) but they are not fully developed yet. Quite a few with only 2, 2.5 ability (but 4-4.5 potential stars) who are playing top minutes. My problem I that I'm avoiding to buy players who are not Basque but would probably be better in the roles. Yet I am not too worried because with this save my objectives are not really trophies. Not right now. It's too continue building from within, via my academy. And trying to keep Champions League football every year. For that I need min 5th place finish, which is where we are basically projected, if we get few more wins and less draws. I'm not really trying to compete with Barca and Real Madrid for the title don't think that would be realistic. But if you have any suggestions to improve my tactic then I'm always open to hearing them. Just keep in mind that I am not looking to play any of the current overpowered META tactics (but you already knew that ). I still prefer to keep more clean sheets than score a ton of goals. Just play sensible realistic football. Edited June 28 by crusadertsar 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 I follow everything here @crusadertsar with a lot of interest and put the essence into my Billericay YAC save. I hope it’s fine to talk about that as well. First I want to mention that I like your the reaction on the „critics“ which was mentioned above and the „critics“ as well. Yes you had a bad start and I hope you can turn it around for better. I have a lot of years on my back, to say so, in 2071 we suffered a lot of bad starts even if the team is strong. We overperformed every single year but of course sometimes there are crucial injuries, transfers out or red cards and penalties. You cannot control the whole game. But you have a clear philosophy and should stick to it because Real Sociedad is not meant to compete where they actually are. Congratulations on your good work. As negative feedback is always the more important and more helpful. What can we do better? I have nearly the same tactic with some tweaks, regarding my philosophy of eleven machines on the pitch. Brave, aggressive players, we are the complete underdogs every year and we want to see the white in the eyes of our opponents. We want to tackle them hard and take risks regaining the ball. I have developed an excel sheet to check out our DNA every half year and track the progress of the first Team and U18s. It’s quite rewarding to see the development in the key attributes. The most Ricay DNA player is Ross Beadle, he is more machine than man. Like 20 aggression and 18 bravery. He is placed in the centre to fight off anything. I love him. yet what can we do better, I also feel that sometimes in some games there is lacking a punch but I think we do a lot positive and it’s maybe more like tweaking in game according to what presents on the pitch. Maybe a WB(A) in some situations where it presents. A W(A) instead of the IF(S) works wonders sometimes just watch how he goes unmarked. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 (edited) 4 hours ago, HanziZoloman said: I follow everything here @crusadertsar with a lot of interest and put the essence into my Billericay YAC save. I hope it’s fine to talk about that as well. First I want to mention that I like your the reaction on the „critics“ which was mentioned above and the „critics“ as well. Yes you had a bad start and I hope you can turn it around for better. I have a lot of years on my back, to say so, in 2071 we suffered a lot of bad starts even if the team is strong. We overperformed every single year but of course sometimes there are crucial injuries, transfers out or red cards and penalties. You cannot control the whole game. But you have a clear philosophy and should stick to it because Real Sociedad is not meant to compete where they actually are. Congratulations on your good work. As negative feedback is always the more important and more helpful. What can we do better? I have nearly the same tactic with some tweaks, regarding my philosophy of eleven machines on the pitch. Brave, aggressive players, we are the complete underdogs every year and we want to see the white in the eyes of our opponents. We want to tackle them hard and take risks regaining the ball. I have developed an excel sheet to check out our DNA every half year and track the progress of the first Team and U18s. It’s quite rewarding to see the development in the key attributes. The most Ricay DNA player is Ross Beadle, he is more machine than man. Like 20 aggression and 18 bravery. He is placed in the centre to fight off anything. I love him. yet what can we do better, I also feel that sometimes in some games there is lacking a punch but I think we do a lot positive and it’s maybe more like tweaking in game according to what presents on the pitch. Maybe a WB(A) in some situations where it presents. A W(A) instead of the IF(S) works wonders sometimes just watch how he goes unmarked. Agreed 100% Of course I don't want to get sacked (again haha) but it's all about the journey and not the end result to me. I love developing the academy and gaining incremental improvements in our club standing. If this were to become some kind of superhero save where I won everything every season, I think I would lose interest real fast. It's one of the reasons I could never really get into managing "big" clubs. And besides my biggest "trophy" every season is seeing this particular message: Edited June 29 by crusadertsar 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 The best @crusadertsar I am a long way from it. 4th attempt in avoiding relegation in Championship. The best trophy now is just that for us. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 This topic has worked as a big inspiration for me in my Torino save where I have gone from the attempt to play counter-attacking football to more catenaccio style with a low-block and fairly passive closing down. How I would change your current approach is going a bit more towards defensive style of play. The formation itself is fairly aggressive and with an attacking duty attacking midfielder it probably almost works like a 4-2-4 which a really aggressive formation which was mainly used on older FMs when searching for a goal at the end of a game. It is also worth noting that both of your full-backs are going to be contributing a lot in defense and the midfield doesn't really have a holding player either. This combined with aggressive closing down, high defensive line and counter-press should see you struggling defensively which you also currently are? How I would change things around would be looking the team instructions again and take a notch or two out of the aggression in them. I would also look at the player roles: if you want to keep your wide players and attacking midfielder like they are at the moment, I would focus on the double pivot and make them more of a holding duo. Maybe I would go in a hybrid in this case and make the left hand side more defensively balanced while still keeping Oyarzabal as the heartbeat of the team, maybe as a roaming playmaker. On the other side I would make Zubimendi more of a golfing option which would allow Barrenetxea to bomb forward. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, El Payaso said: This topic has worked as a big inspiration for me in my Torino save where I have gone from the attempt to play counter-attacking football to more catenaccio style with a low-block and fairly passive closing down. How I would change your current approach is going a bit more towards defensive style of play. The formation itself is fairly aggressive and with an attacking duty attacking midfielder it probably almost works like a 4-2-4 which a really aggressive formation which was mainly used on older FMs when searching for a goal at the end of a game. It is also worth noting that both of your full-backs are going to be contributing a lot in defense and the midfield doesn't really have a holding player either. This combined with aggressive closing down, high defensive line and counter-press should see you struggling defensively which you also currently are? How I would change things around would be looking the team instructions again and take a notch or two out of the aggression in them. I would also look at the player roles: if you want to keep your wide players and attacking midfielder like they are at the moment, I would focus on the double pivot and make them more of a holding duo. Maybe I would go in a hybrid in this case and make the left hand side more defensively balanced while still keeping Oyarzabal as the heartbeat of the team, maybe as a roaming playmaker. On the other side I would make Zubimendi more of a golfing option which would allow Barrenetxea to bomb forward. Those are great suggestions! I just thought that I already had a holding midfielder in my DM double pivot. With new positional play in FM24, Regista is actually a much safer option than RPM. My previous DLP made us more stagnant in going forward (hence all of those draws) And my DM has "hold position". I just prefer Support role with it's higher individual mentality especially on a lower Balanced team mentality. But I'll try to implement your suggestions in 2nd half of season Edited June 29 by crusadertsar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 Yep, Regista is more of a solid option in terms of defending. The RPM was mainly a suggestion if you make changes on the roles either side of him as that would probably demand more from the left-sided DM in terms of buildup. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 vor einer Stunde schrieb El Payaso: Yep, Regista is more of a solid option in terms of defending. The RPM was mainly a suggestion if you make changes on the roles either side of him as that would probably demand more from the left-sided DM in terms of buildup. But the regista is also roaming around and requires only few defensive attributes. I have difficulties in holding the nil and keep a clean sheet. We concede every match. I have a similar tactic but a with standard Defense Line and higher press (my players are slow and attacking from a mid block seems to demanding, they‘d lose all pace challenges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 1 hour ago, crusadertsar said: Those are great suggestions! I just thought that I already had a holding midfielder in my DM double pivot. With new positional play in FM24, Regista is actually a much safer option than RPM. My previous DLP made us more stagnant in going forward (hence all of those draws) And my DM has "hold position". I just prefer Support role with it's higher individual mentality especially on a lower Balanced team mentality. But I'll try to implement your suggestions in 2nd half of season Hey, Ihor, forgot to ask. How well your Oyarzábal has been performing as a regista? Mine has already 16 goals contribution this season in 26 matches (7 goals/9 assists). But I'm already thinking about his next season, which can be his last 🥲 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 14 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said: But the regista is also roaming around and requires only few defensive attributes. I have difficulties in holding the nil and keep a clean sheet. We concede every match. I have a similar tactic but a with standard Defense Line and higher press (my players are slow and attacking from a mid block seems to demanding, they‘d lose all pace challenges. The problem with many of FM roles is that they don't explain it well how different roles defend and move in general. I would say that Regista is probably something between DLP and RPM and he doesn't drift that much to the flanks as the RPM does. This is something I found on Reddit: Quote The important stats for the roles pretty much match up to the differences I've noticed in game. The RPM is a more mobile and physical player who roams much further from his original starting position than a regista does. The RPM is a like a bee buzzing around everywhere on the field while the regista sticks mostly to one spot and generally sits back controlling all the play compared to the all-action RPM who wants to actively go where the ball is at all times. If the RPM is a good dribbler, he will dribble a lot, frequently going on end to end slalom runs from defense to the forwards which I haven't noticed registas doing this. Despite the regista role having no defensive stat requirements, they are much more reliable defenders than RPMs due to the rather static nature of the role rather than the RPM who will very frequently be caught out of position due to his willingness to roam everywhere Back in the day it used to be quite a crazy role. I remember using Regista at AS Roma with Daniele De Rossi almost ten years ago and he was often even the highest player on the pitch ending attacks. Combine this with Nainngolan and Totti and you're in for a treat. I tend to take a notch back in these situations. It is quite common that when I change my double pivot from VOL(S) - DM(D) to a DM(S) - A (D) that the last 15 minutes if the game doesn't have a single attacking highlight for the opposition on comprehensive which tells me that the system is working. I think many people are afraid of using a low-block but for me it works very well most of the time. Obviously things go wrong at times, like they did for example in my season opener against Salernitana where I conceded 4 times against a fairly poor side. Those are the things that sometimes happen and when the snowball starts to roll, it is often hard to stop. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 (edited) 26 minutes ago, rmelo0387 said: Hey, Ihor, forgot to ask. How well your Oyarzábal has been performing as a regista? Mine has already 16 goals contribution this season in 26 matches (7 goals/9 assists). But I'm already thinking about his next season, which can be his last 🥲 He hasn't scored any goals unfortunately 😕 I don't know what's happening with my tactic. I feel like I need to go back to the drawing board. It's definitely not performing as well as it did at AC Milan. That's to be expected but I just thought we would be doing a bit better than 6th or 7th in December. Edited June 29 by crusadertsar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeper#1 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 I'm definitely going to need some 4-2-3-1 defensive stability in my Swansea save. I went very attacking this past season working on the philosophy of "the best defense is a good offense." We are a year ahead of schedule after a crazy final day. We went into the final day in 4th place on 92 points behind both Nottingham Forest and Leeds who had 95 points. We needed to win against Hull City and hope that both clubs lost road games to West Brom and Coventry while making up some goal difference as well. We did our job thrashing Hull, 3-0, which improved our goal difference to +46. We got the help we needed from both Coventry and West Brom, who soundly beat Forest (+44) and Leeds (+43) by large enough margins to allow us to move past both clubs and into second place. The playoffs are going to be a war with Forest and Leeds both on 95 points, Luton on 89 points and Norwich on 83 points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 1 hour ago, crusadertsar said: He hasn't scored any goals unfortunately 😕 I don't know what's happening with my tactic. I feel like I need to go back to the drawing board. It's definitely not performing as well as it did at AC Milan. That's to be expected but I just thought we would be doing a bit better than 6th or 7th in December. 🫤 I've been quite satisfied with the tactic. Some matches, I set it up a notch with positive mentality, particularly against teams playing a 5-3-2 and cautious mentality, to gain a bit more of aggression and urge in possession. I definitely think that the level of the squad helps, but even rotating I feel we've been very good. This season, we sit in 3th, after Madrid and Atlético. But we have the best attack and 2th best defense. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 (edited) vor 17 Stunden schrieb rmelo0387: 🫤 I've been quite satisfied with the tactic. Some matches, I set it up a notch with positive mentality, particularly against teams playing a 5-3-2 and cautious mentality, to gain a bit more of aggression and urge in possession. I definitely think that the level of the squad helps, but even rotating I feel we've been very good. This season, we sit in 3th, after Madrid and Atlético. But we have the best attack and 2th best defense. How goes your interpretation of the tactic? Especially the defensive structure is giving me headaches. Had a bad start too. We‘re conceding loads again. Most teams press high and then we‘ve got trouble in the build up. I am thinking about dropping one midfielder as a HB to help build from the back. but then there is only a DM(S) or BMW(S) left in the centre. I believe one has to adapt more. If we get the ball up into the final third it’s tough for the opponents, with high press and wingplay they counter the weakest parts of the tactic and then it’s trouble for our 4231 I am thinking about how to counter that. Maybe one can try and just pass over the press with a HB and a TF(S) / DLF(S) to receive the long ball (more direct play) and let the wingmen attack space together with a pushing AMC(A). Once the opponent gets that they drop the pressing (?) the strongest area of the 4231 are the two midfielders and the AMC which gives plenty of room to get creative. Edited June 30 by HanziZoloman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 17 hours ago, HanziZoloman said: How goes your interpretation of the tactic? Especially the defensive structure is giving me headaches. I've been using the same instructions and roles of the original one. Playing on balanced mentality has been pretty secure and solid all season till now. But I have one of the best defenses of the La Liga, with some very good players. I'll try to share it later. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) And as I participated already in this thread: this was the starting point for me with Torino. During the first season I actually set to a two-striker formation and one AM instead of this but the main principles were the same. The attacking minded attacking midfielder turned into a advanced forward and the second striker was operating as a pressing forward, deep-lying forward or target forward based on the situation. In defense I have gotten rid of the libero and replaced this with a ball-playing centre-back, standard centre-back and a wide centre-back trio. The double pivot usually works as segundo volante and defensive midfielder in a defend duty. I nowadays also use a regular wing-back on the left and a complete wing-back on the right. I don't use any other player instruction except that I allow the AM to move into channels and roam. When defending a lead, I tend to change the left-handed wing-back to a defend duty, change the DM(D) to an Anchor, CWB to WB(S) and the right-side forward to PF(D). In team instructions, I have gotten rid of lower defensive line and step up more and replaced this by triggering the press slightly more often as I want us to be fairly aggressive in our own defensive third. I usually start with cautious mentality and change to defensive when defending a lead or while facing teams like Inter away. I also usually add get stuck in when defending a lead or when happy with a draw. Here is how I did in general in season 1: https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/585299-fm-2024-torino-fc-sogni-di-battere-la-juve/?do=findComment&comment=14432253 Edited June 30 by El Payaso 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmelo0387 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 @crusadertsar, dunno if it's the right topic for it, but... I've been thinking about changing my system again next season, and go for a 433 or 343 inspired by, you now, Cruyff. Do you think the engine of this edition is good enough to replicate this style of football? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted June 30 Author Share Posted June 30 2 hours ago, rmelo0387 said: @crusadertsar, dunno if it's the right topic for it, but... I've been thinking about changing my system again next season, and go for a 433 or 343 inspired by, you now, Cruyff. Do you think the engine of this edition is good enough to replicate this style of football? Oh Yeah! It's perfect for it especially because of all the positional play changes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 2 hours ago, rmelo0387 said: @crusadertsar, dunno if it's the right topic for it, but... I've been thinking about changing my system again next season, and go for a 433 or 343 inspired by, you now, Cruyff. Do you think the engine of this edition is good enough to replicate this style of football? It's probably easier then ever before, since you can form the midfield diamond in possession from a more regular formation, like a 4-3-3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakey8 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Hello! I’ve been following this thread for such a long time and have thoroughly enjoyed the wisdom shared. Now honestly, I’m not a veteran of fm but I do love the tactical chess like side of the game we all love so try to implement my philosophies. My favourite managers are Mourinho and Conte so I base all my setups with that in mind. With the Euros being on, I’ve set my new Fiorentina up under the influence of Antonio Contes Euro 2016 Italian side. I’m not sure if anyone else quite remembers this team as well but I loved the grit and underdog spirit of that team who were viewed as an aging withered team with little to give. The team played as tight cohesive unit defensively and exploded on the counter with the likes of Sunderland’s Giaccherini and the big man Graziano Pelle. Anyway here is what I’ve gone with as my squad and how it is going so far. Thanks in advance for anyone taking the time to read this! Sorry if i blabbered on it’s my first post 😂. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crusadertsar Posted July 6 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 6 (edited) Fun Weekend Update: Wiping The Tactical Slate Clean and Moving to 3-2-3-2 Future So with all the recent talk on this thread about the 3-AtTheBack formations, I have been inspired to give such a seemingly defensive system a try. I think it fits rather well with the main defining principles of "Defence-First Football". But I want to take it one step further, I would like to create a 3-ATB tactic with both BEST Defence and BEST Attack in LaLiga. For the purpose of FM24, this would mean scoring the most goals while conceding the least. Is that even possible? Or remotely possible with a club like Real Sociedad, even if it is 8 years into the future? Let us find out then. I don't want to write off my 8th season in charge of the Blues and Whites as a failure. Afterall, a season where you win the Spanish Cup (and 2nd one with the same club!) cannot be seen as a bad. Especially, not when you win it in such a dramatic fashion against one of our toughest LaLiga competitors. I will definitely cherish that particular result for a while. But it's also kind of hard to see the season as a success. We finished only 5th, behind newly rampant Sevilla. So no Champions League football for a season. Our thirst for continental glory will just have to be slated by the smaller Europa League. My Real Sociedad scored a decent amount of goals (3rd best in the league no less) but our defences turned out to be leakier than expected, and against sides against which we really should not have been losing. Or drawing. A few important strategic points would probably have given us 4ths place finish, as well as Champions League. Lesson learned. I do not intend to make the same mistakes next season. And especially do not want to do so by attempting the same tactics as I did before. Because that would be one solution right? GET GUD! You know, just try the exact same thing BUT with better players. This has not been a strategy that has worked especially well in this save. Mainly because I keep trying to maintain, for the most part, a Basque-only squad, and improvements in players are only happening slowly and incrementally. Yet, I am starting to feel like I'll need to start making more compromises on this little "house rule". That is, if I intend to win some more trophies before I get bored with this save and move on to FM25 BUT I refuse to make this save into one of THOSE saves where you just buy every single wonderkid and win Champions League in 1-2 years. Lets at least do sensible, realistic transfers, like what Real Sociedad would do in real life, even if it was year 2032. And I definitely don't want to do what Manchester City did here. Even if I had it available, that is WAY too much money to spend on a single player, not matter how good. By the way Man City finished 7th in 2032 Premier League, with only the prospect of "baby" Europa Conference football for next season. I will follow them closely, would love to see how many goals Rocha will score for The City. Hopefully that 316 million was worth it. AND I'm also glad that I won't have to compete against them in the old Europa League. Anyway, I digress. My 8th season with Real Sociedad was not everything I hoped for. SO now I decided to try something radically different from the tactics I have been tweaking endlessly for so long. Mostly what I have been using were different variations of 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. Trying to play like the "big boys" like Man City do. Incidentally, those were also the two formations which AI used against me the most, almost 70% of the time. As you might guess, just like in real football, these two formations are very VERY popular. See what I have been trying for 8 seasons was to turn AI managers' best weapons against them. In theory, this would work very well IF I had much better players than the AI. My single season success in Italy (winning domestic treble with AC Milan) proved just that. With the only real competition coming from our city rival Inter, it was not much of a contest. In LaLiga, Real Sociedad has two "super-teams" Barca and Real Madrid to compete against (both of them 2 billion euro clubs). Then at the same time we have Athletico Madrid, Valencia, Sevilla and Real Hispalis adding more fire into the competition pot. So as you might guess coming out on top in such a mix is not so easy, and will require quite a bit of luck. Tactical genius won't go far if your players are not better than Real Madrid's or Barca's. So I need to find a way to negate those team's advantage. And that advantage being the very attacking 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 tactics they tend to use. There is a very good reason, why these formations do so well in FM24. When assembled correctly you could have as many as 5-6 players flooding the opposition defensive lines. Overload galore. And let's not even talk about the 3 front attackers advantage. That is why Real Sociedad's offence was so good this season (3rd in number of goals scored) while our defence was only middling. Not exactly what I am looking from "Defence-First" Tactic. Thus, let's look systematically at how we can overturn this AI advantage and maybe use it to our own advantage. But to do this, I think I actually need to list off a few elements of various tactics that I actually like. Maybe, just maybe I could fit them all together into one Super Tactic? 1) Two Strikers Are Better Than One - this is something that I long loved in both traditional "English-style" 4-4-2 and its more exotic European Narrow Diamond variant. Operating with two dedicated strikers is always a major advantage when it comes to scoring goals, and winning matches. Because who wins games? Well, whoever can outscore the other team. And in my opinion, two strikers will always be better at scoring goals for you then a single striker. It is very simple, like all effective strategies in football. In the game, two strikers also develop partnerships over time which makes them even more effective when played together. Their individual skillsets and strengths can be matched up in various ways to make up for their weaknesses. And to create potent role combinations. Be it one fast finisher and tall strong targetman. Or one nimble technical trequartista/advanced forward combined with another equally technical but physically strong deeplying forward to support him. The tactical possibilities are many. 2) Midfield Trio's Numerical Advantage - if two strikers are always better than one, then three midfielders are always better than two midfielders. One of the big reasons for the popularity and success of both 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 is probably due to these formations' advantage in midfield. As compared to the traditional 4-4-2, with its two dedicated central midfielders, it can only be an advantage to spread the duties of the midfielders between three players. This allows for greater specialization of each midfielder and therefore more refined, technical ball control. Rather than having two players who must divide the demanding duties of attacking, supporting and defending, you have three specialized midfielders who can each take on a specific task and focus only on it. Thus, you can have a more defensive holding player, a runner/tireless workhorse/"water carrier" and a flashy playmaker. All in one midfield. 3) Three At The Back Defensive Unit - a good way to counteract two strikers is of course with three dedicated central defenders. When facing three attackers, as in 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 (with a shadow striker-type attacking midfielder), the best remedy is using 3 ATB defensive unit combined with anchoring defensive midfielder. You can see an example of such a set-up in the 2nd of the two tactic pictures above. As well as in the one below where the holding defensive midfielder is lined up next to a playmaker. 4) Wing Attack - something that I love in a good old 4-2-3-1 is how easy it is to "weaponise" the flanks. Have both advanced wingers bomb forward and stretch the opposition defence to give your striker and shadow striker an easy access to the half-spaces. Or combine winger with attacking wingback on the other flank to do the same thing but via different tactical strata. Either way, any effective tactic needs a way to put pressure on the opponent along the flanks, because when they choose to defend there then obviously they cannot as effectively defend the middle spaces. So how might one combine all these advantageous elements from different tactics? - Wing attack, midfield trio, striker partnership and three-men defensive unit. A 3-2-3-2 "Super" tactic perhaps? For now, it's a purely theoretical concept that I plan to test out next season. A real tactical mashup of all the things that I loved in all my favourite tactics over the years. There is a bit of something from all of them here, be it Narrow Diamond's midfield and dual strikers or 4-2-3-1's wing attack or 4-3-3's midfield trio. The question is whether all of these elements will work as intended to thwart those popular 3 attacker formations while at the same time allowing Real Sociedad to score more goals? Only more time and testing will tell. TO BE CONTINUED . . . Edited July 6 by crusadertsar 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 @crusadertsar I am eager to learn more. I am struggling heavily again with Billericay, we concede three goals per game and I have the same approach as you mentioned above: Try the same with better players but they get only better very slowly in a YAC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medio Volante Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) Hey guys. I have a question. What pitch size do you guys choose for counter attacking/defence-first play style? Is it smaller to have less space to cover defensively or bigger to have more space to expose the opponents when they have the ball? These are the options that I have: Spoiler Edited July 6 by Medio Volante Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-7- Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) Very interested in following updates on this tactic, I like how you're trying to get the best of both (all!) worlds! Usually we try to obtain the 3-2-3-2 shape (or 3-2-2-3 or simply 3-2-5, whatever you want to call it) from classic formations such as 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or other more commonly used ones, by making capital out of the FM24 PP feature. Personally, I have never thought of using a 3-2-3-2 as the starting formation (and therefore as the out of possession shape). Curious to see how effective this will be in the defensive phase, especially when defending against wide players in AM strata. I could hypothesize that the Counter-press TI might work better than the High press given the positioning of the players in preventing counter-attacks, but let's see! Edited July 6 by Fox-7- 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 3 hours ago, Medio Volante said: Hey guys. I have a question. What pitch size do you guys choose for counter attacking/defence-first play style? Is it smaller to have less space to cover defensively or bigger to have more space to expose the opponents when they have the ball? These are the options that I have: Hide contents In past editions used to go either with minimum or long but haven't paid attention in this version. I would say that long would probably suit my Torino team the best as I would be looking to make it as difficult as possible for the opposition to exploit the flanks that usually are the main weakness in my 3-man defense + wing-back systems. Then on the other hand a long pitch suits the team well when going forward as our deep-lying forward would have plenty more space to operate in and search for the runners. Come to think about it, might try this next season and see how it changes things. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeper#1 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 I've never been a fan of the "single winger" formations because, I feel, the AI just overloads the wings and the center backs are defending wide open crosses all day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 (edited) 14 minutes ago, keeper#1 said: I've never been a fan of the "single winger" formations because, I feel, the AI just overloads the wings and the center backs are defending wide open crosses all day. Of course you bring up a valid point. But with 3-4 tall players staying back, AI can keep launching crosses all day. I don't really care because they won't be very effective. Not if we block them down the middle too. That's the whole point of such a formation, to trap AI into making runs down the flanks and expand most of their efforts on a low-chance crossing strategy. Don't you agree? This is one of the centrebacks that's on the verge of graduating from our Reserve B Team, by the way. I mean to pack my defence with more players like him to make crosses even less of a problem and make us more threatening in set piece situations too. Having a keeper who excels in Aerial Reach and Jumping would also make sense to reduce the damage from crosses. Edited July 6 by crusadertsar 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 vor 34 Minuten schrieb crusadertsar: Of course you bring up a valid point. But with 3-4 tall players staying back, AI can keep launching crosses all day. I don't really care because they won't be very effective. Not if we block them down the middle too. That's the whole point of such a formation, to trap AI into making runs down the flanks and expand most of their efforts on a low-chance crossing strategy. Don't you agree? This is one of the centrebacks that's on the verge of graduating from our Reserve B Team, by the way. I mean to pack my defence with more players like him to make crosses even less of a problem and make us more threatening in set piece situations too. Having a keeper who excels in Aerial Reach and Jumping would also make sense to reduce the damage from crosses. The Serbian Jumper, now he‘s looking great. I didn‘t much success with the 3ATB and had my longest winless run ever. It made all sense on paper but didn’t work out. I am happy to see your appointment and I am sure you‘ll a lot better. Just turned things around with a win, albeit had to switch back into a 4231. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 43 minutes ago, crusadertsar said: Having a keeper who excels in Aerial Reach and Jumping would also make sense to reduce the damage from crosses. This has been vital for my Torino team and it's why I was absolutely devastated when my board decided to sell Vanja Milinkovic-Savic to Arsenal. Couldn't imagine more suitable goalkeeper to my system. Never seen as aerially dominant keeper on FM. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 (edited) To be completely honest, my "adventurous" 3-2-3-2 concept may have been more than a little inspired by Simone Inzaghi's Inter Milan. The Lombardian side has been dominating Serie A in typical Italian fashion, via narrow formation with two strikers and 3 in the back defence of course. The ever-popular 3-5-2. And what's there not to like? In fact, there was an excellent thread on this forum back in November, which is unfortunately not active anymore, which nevertheless had some great ideas about recreating Inzaghi's clinically effective style. And that is why I admire how he has Inter play. With Simone Inzaghi's brand of 3-5-2, Inter Milan really does have the best defence and attack in Italy. My tactic is not meant to attempt to recreate Inter Milan, like in that thread however, just to take some inspirations from their style. Much like 3-5-2, the 3-2-3-2 that I outlined in my previous post, can be a very powerful shape with more clear advantages than disadvantages. I already mentioned them before, but let me just quickly summarize: PROS: 2 Strikers - more potent attack = more goals 3 Midfielders - better central ball control, possession and in general simply the ability to keep the ball in the middle in order to move it up to your strikers. 3 Centrebacks - even if you turn one of them into a more adventurous creative role (such as libera) you will still have 3 bodies to drop back and help defend your goal when not in possession. Clear advantage against 3 Attack formations (like 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1) CONS: The only one I can think of AND it is a pretty big one though. There is a clear disadvantage on the wings seeing how you can only have one player positioned on each flank. Meaning that A LOT of responsibility (both in defence and attack) will fall on this player. You can also get easily outnumbered on the flanks when facing almost any formation with both wingers and fullbacks. Luckily there are a few ways in which we can mitigate this flank disadvantage. So the purpose of this post would be to discuss these options. Firstly, and probably the option that is easiest, we can adjust some of the roles on the wings. So if winger on attack is too aggressive and more likely to leave space undefended for the opposition fullbacks to exploit, then why not change the role of that winger? So the tactic becomes something like this. I switched the right-side winger into a Complete Wingback because he fits that role well, while my left-side winger Villanueva is really more of a stereotypical all-out winger with bags of speed and dribbling. Besides, I think his talents would be wasted on playing as anything else than an attacking winger. Also, with his excellent offensive attributes and "roam from position" individual instruction, he tends to chip in with quite a few goals, even from the wide wing position. I really don't want to move him further back and negatively affect his attacking contribution. So that means that the left flank role is pretty much confirmed. It needs to stay Winger(Attack). While some adjustments can definitely be made to the right winger. In order to make us less vulnerable on that side. The left side will still be very vulnerable of course, with Villanueva bombing forward most of the time, but I intend to come back to it when looking at what can be done with my midfield. The right-flank winger becoming a Complete Wingback seems like a good solution to inject more defensive balance on the flank. But it is not the only one. Which is where my dilemma lies. I like the CWB role a lot. Most of it has to do with one overlooked feature. It has a "roam from position" hardcoded into its individual role instructions. The only wingback or fullback role to have this, and it cannot be added via individual instruction to any other wingback/fullback role. What this means in the game, is that a CWB with suitable attributes will start deeper and then will get forward (like other attacking wingbacks do of course) but then in the final third his behaviour could become more unpredictable (and this depends on the other roles around it and the formation). When roaming, CBWs will sometimes act like wide attackers cutting inside and making dangerous runs into the penalty area. Really something that I would love to see in a formation that lacks a bit of punch on the wings. But then at the same, if such behavior is to make us more vulnerable on that flank, do we really want that from the CBW? Afterall, we are already operating with two strikers. Meet Ronaldo. No, not the Portuguese one haha, nor Brazilian one. My very own Romanian Ronaldo. The first acquisition of Summer 2032 transfer period, and hopefully an integral part of this future tactic. This 19 y.o wonderkid is very comfortable in the Defensive Winger role. His attributes are are quite good for it already, even if still has quite a lot of development left. Furthermore, His technical attributes are not quiet good enough for CWB. Playing a DW on either Defend or Support duty (depending on the quality of the player) could be a workable solution to add more balance to the whole right side of the tactic. The Defensive Winger will be more focused on defending his flanks and aggressively going after the opposition fullbacks and wingers. Once he intercepts the ball then he will have the more progressive SV role next to him and available for passes. Let's face it, unlike on my left wing (where the deadly winger Villanueva is), the real threat on the right side will come through my Segundo Volante or DLF striker. And NOT the right winger/wingback. So I am further leaning towards Defensive Winger solution there. Besides, I am leaning more and more towards Defend duty DW because with SV next to him, all I really need my DW to do is break up opposition attacks down that flank, win back the ball and just pass it off to our much, MUCH more creative Segundo Volante Daniel Sanz who will be making runs beyond the Defensive Winger and into the final third to support our strikers. Hopefully he will perform this role like a more physical regista. Or anyway, that is how I envision the tactic coming together on an ideal FM football pitch. Things will probably not work quite as well in testing. Going back to the left side again, with Villanueva running off (hypothetically for now) on another one of his lightning fast attacks, we need a better way to screen that flank. I don't think that the DM(D) Perez sitting back on that side will be enough. Not even if instruct him to move wider (can you even do that with DM?). He will not really be comfortable defending the flank. There is of course the left Wide Centreback who should be available, but I don't want him to be the only thing stopping an opposition wide attacker, fullback. More like a last resort. Not when such movement from WCB might leave a bigger gap in our central defence and thus open up more space for opposition strikers and attacking midfielders. Another side of the dilemma. And which brings us to an important question. Can a Mezzala defend? Not really sure about this, since never really tried the mezzala role in such a tactic and capacity. Maybe if the player I use in the Mezzala role is a super hard worker and with pretty good defending attributes (like tacking, positioning and marking)? Actually, if we modify the formation a little, to accommodate a hardworking mezzala, I think it could theoretically work. Oyarzabal has perfect technical and mental attributes for what I envision a more "defensive" mezzala to be like. Except his physicals are going down and acceleration is arguably one of the most important attributes for an effective mezzala. Another idea, could be potentially to have Oyarzabal play in a more defensive carrilero role, which also like mezzala is hard-coded to go more towards the flanks. But I am not sure how that would effect the rest of the tactic. It could potentially cause more of a disconnect between our strikers and midfield. I think for this tactic to work. We cannot just have wingers and advanced playmaker/segundo volante supplying the strikers. The other solution is to hit the transfer market again, to try to find that ideal player. Someone like this kid perhaps: He looks like a really good young player. And a model citizen to boot! I might need to find someone who is more well developed though, as Yttereng does not quite look like LaLiga-level yet. Although my scouts are all telling me that he is a great one for the future. What do you guys think? TO BE CONTINUED . . . Edited July 6 by crusadertsar 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 (edited) 34 minutes ago, El Payaso said: This has been vital for my Torino team and it's why I was absolutely devastated when my board decided to sell Vanja Milinkovic-Savic to Arsenal. Couldn't imagine more suitable goalkeeper to my system. Never seen as aerially dominant keeper on FM. I have a lot of hope for the future resting on this young man. Not an academy product but still a Basque trained at our club since 17 y.o. He still has room to improve so hopefully his Aerial capability will improve even further Edited July 6 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Payaso Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 13 minutes ago, crusadertsar said: I have a lot of hope for the future resting on this young man. Not an academy product but still a Basque trained at our club since 17 y.o. He still has room to improve so hopefully his Aerial capability will improve even further Looks good (if you exclude the face)! Aerial reach and commanding of the area(?) are probably the two main attributes I look in my keepers. And kicking is another one as I love the occasional route one approach. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanziZoloman Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 nice update @crusadertsar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 (edited) The first results are coming in. And this is my favourite so far. And it not even a friendly! Call me an unrealistic dreamer but I love seeing results like this And its not like our Defence-First approach was betrayed. We still scored more than the opposition to win, and only allowed in one. Not bad. Most of all, I was impressed with what I saw from my young academy graduate Segundo Volante Gaizka Bilbao. A hat trick from a deep DM position and on his 3rd ever league game no less. And to give a bit of context, Oviedo in 2032 is actually not a bad side, and actually managed to beat Atheletico Madrid a few days earlier (2-1) using a very defensive Park The Bus 4-3-3 approach. Guess same tactic did not work so well against Sociedad's new 3-2-3-2. Edited July 8 by crusadertsar 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeper#1 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 10-1 in a league match?!?!?!?! The opposition had families who were watching the match. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 5 minutes ago, keeper#1 said: 10-1 in a league match?!?!?!?! The opposition had families who were watching the match. "Son, maybe this football game is just not for you " 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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