[433] ideas on turning Mez into the main scorer?

[fraudiola]

[crusadertsar]

Not possible in your tactic. Make the central striker into support dedicated striker (like False9 for example) and even then I suspect the main scorer will be your IF. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

The only way I can think that you can really make a mezzala (or CM on attack duty) into the primary scorer is if you roll a strikerless tactic with dual mezzalas upfront. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Maddux]

It could work with a slow buildup, a DLF-Su or False 9 that drops deep into midfield and a CM-At. At least that's how it worked for me until including FM 22. PPMs like "comes deep to get ball" on the DLF and "gets forward whenever possible" on the CM-At can help to create the counter-movement that is necessary to get the CM ahead of the DLF/F9.

[chachol3ptico]

I would suggest using a striker without move into channels, need a static one to fix the defenders like a poacher. The winger and iwb is perfect but the Ap has take more Risk i think so is great to trigger passes for other players that are not Next to him. Focus down the left with an inside foward maybe is not the best option you could try Focus down the middle if the oponnent has only one player in the DM positions, against a flat 442 or a 4231 (without dms) Focus down the middle and underlap, Bustthenet (Rashidi on this forums) has a little series with Bayern Leverkusen in YouTube with a 433 set Up adapting against different tactics, his CM(A) was one of his best scorers. The most important thing would be the attributes of the player though.

Edited December 9, 2023 by chachol3ptico

[Cloud9]

7 hours ago, fraudiola said:

I find Mez(a) to be a great creative role, particularly with assists. High flair is really useful on the role, as is being two footed. 

Agree on what people said above on the main goalscorer issues, I'd favor a tall CM(a) for a midfielder as the main goal threat. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Cloud9

[DarJ]

12 hours ago, chachol3ptico said:

would suggest using a striker without move into channels

I don't think I agree with that. To make the Mez the primary goal scorer he will need the space to move into and a static striker occupies that space. A striker that moves into channel would go from left to right vacating the middle for your Mez to slot into.

[crusadertsar]

4 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I don't think I agree with that. To make the Mez the primary goal scorer he will need the space to move into and a static striker occupies that space. A striker that moves into channel would go from left to right vacating the middle for your Mez to slot into.

Mezzala does not attack the middle. You are thinking of CM(a). Mezzala goes wider and into channels himself so a striker moving into channels would actually be in Mezzala's space.

[DarJ]

3 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Mezzala does not attack the middle. You are thinking of CM(a). Mezzala goes wider and into channels himself so a striker moving into channels would actually be in Mezzala's space.

I understand what you're saying but we are both right. The players move based in their roles and also relatively to where the ball is and I agree with you that although a Mez will start a bit wide and attack that space there but there are situations where that channel is actually the centre of the pitch for example if the Mez is playing on the right and the ball is on the left the players will naturally move towards the left so that right channel where the Mez was would shift a bit to the left as well 

 

[crusadertsar]

13 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I understand what you're saying but we are both right. The players move based in their roles and also relatively to where the ball is and I agree with you that although a Mez will start a bit wide and attack that space there but there are situations where that channel is actually the centre of the pitch for example if the Mez is playing on the right and the ball is on the left the players will naturally move towards the left so that right channel where the Mez was would shift a bit to the left as well 

 

I don't think you quite understand what channel means in the game. In the game it is synonymous with halfspace. Meaning the space between opposition CBs and Fullback. What you are describing would be pretty rare, atypical Mezzala behavior. I always see my Mezzalas hang outside the penalty box in their respective halfspace (depending on which side you play them on). They don't usually dribble across the pitch to attack the opposite halfspace even if space opens up there.

Edited December 9, 2023 by crusadertsar

[avenger22]

Main scorer a midfielder is impossible in real life and FM impossible, but you can make them score 15+ goals per season with CM(a) or mezz(A) and to make a shape to take that advantage a 3-5-2 with double cm(A) i have made many seasons them even having 20+ goals cause they mostly score from crosses in the box from low ones so thats the best way to take advantage of them

[Maddux]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb avenger22:

Main scorer a midfielder is impossible in real life and FM impossible, but you can make them score 15+ goals per season with CM(a) or mezz(A) and to make a shape to take that advantage a 3-5-2 with double cm(A) i have made many seasons them even having 20+ goals cause they mostly score from crosses in the box from low ones so thats the best way to take advantage of them

It's 100% possible, in FM and real football, but harder to set up in FM.

Pele for example played as a CAM behind a striker for long parts of his career.

[chachol3ptico]

hace 2 horas, avenger22 dijo:

Main scorer a midfielder is impossible in real life and FM impossible, but you can make them score 15+ goals per season with CM(a) or mezz(A) and to make a shape to take that advantage a 3-5-2 with double cm(A) i have made many seasons them even having 20+ goals cause they mostly score from crosses in the box from low ones so thats the best way to take advantage of them

Bellingham disagrees

[avenger22]

2 hours ago, Maddux said:

It's 100% possible, in FM and real football, but harder to set up in FM.

Pele for example played as a CAM behind a striker for long parts of his career.

an AM(A) or SS(a) absolutely you can do it, an cm(A) 20+ goals maybe but never main cause AF will score unless you play some weird no striker stuff

[avenger22]

39 minutes ago, chachol3ptico said:

Bellingham disagrees

He plays as AM(A) or even SS(a) in a 4-3-1-2 shape with 2 wingers playing as strikers, if he played with 2 real strikers goalscorers no chance he would be top scorer

[Maddux]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb avenger22:

He plays as AM(A) or even SS(a) in a 4-3-1-2 shape with 2 wingers playing as strikers, if he played with 2 real strikers goalscorers no chance he would be top scorer

So you agree that it can be done when you set it up right.

[b2khn]

If the Mez is on attack, no AM or other striker then F9, you will make him score.

Tactic would be on the edge and mostlikely break every patch.

Edited December 10, 2023 by b2khn

[Maddux]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb b2khn:

If the Mez is on attack, no AM or other striker then F9, you will make him score.

Tactic would be on the edge and mostlikely break every patch.

That's exactly what i did in FM 22.

Asymmetrical 433 with the DLF shifted to the central left position and a slow buildup and passes into space. Buildup was focused on the left side where the DLF drifted to and the centrebacks followed him, leaving gaps in the central defence. The CM-At then rushed into these gaps and received killer balls from midfielders or the left side.

I havend't tried it in FM 24 but it already lost effectiveness in FM 23 do to changes in the match engine and how the AI defends against killer balls. I doubt that it will be good in FM 24 because the AI defends even better against killer balls but i'm up for someone posting a tactics that makes it work again.

[b2khn]

52 minutes ago, Maddux said:

That's exactly what i did in FM 22.

Asymmetrical 433 with the DLF shifted to the central left position and a slow buildup and passes into space. Buildup was focused on the left side where the DLF drifted to and the centrebacks followed him, leaving gaps in the central defence. The CM-At then rushed into these gaps and received killer balls from midfielders or the left side.

I havend't tried it in FM 24 but it already lost effectiveness in FM 23 do to changes in the match engine and how the AI defends against killer balls. I doubt that it will be good in FM 24 because the AI defends even better against killer balls but i'm up for someone posting a tactics that makes it work again.

That idea you gave me, may have given me a great tactic.

But it lets wingers (s) score, not the Mez(a). I see greater variance in my test so far, but it has also been the most effective I tested this weekend.

[Dr Naysay]

There is an interesting tidbit from Rashidis positional play video was how he got his Mez(Foden) to be one of the top scorers by using wingers instead if IW or IFs. Makes sense right, you have two wingers stretching the opposition defence and the Mez on attack surging in to that vacated space.

[Maddux]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Dr Naysay:

There is an interesting tidbit from Rashidis positional play video was how he got his Mez(Foden) to be one of the top scorers by using wingers instead if IW or IFs. Makes sense right, you have two wingers stretching the opposition defence and the Mez on attack surging in to that vacated space.

Exactly.

You'll need advanced players that roam from their positions and pull opponents out of the defensive positions. An advancing player like CM/MEZ-At can then exploit these spaces. Or a IF/Raumdeuter that cuts in from the right when you pulled the defence to the left.

These "pullings" that create spaces are an important factor for me when i create my tactics.

[b2khn]

10 hours ago, Maddux said:

Exactly.

You'll need advanced players that roam from their positions and pull opponents out of the defensive positions. An advancing player like CM/MEZ-At can then exploit these spaces. Or a IF/Raumdeuter that cuts in from the right when you pulled the defence to the left.

These "pullings" that create spaces are an important factor for me when i create my tactics.

It has not been very much tested, but it had quite good results. What I dont like about it, are the PIs. Those are from the darkhorse 442, which works.

If the pressing line is dropped to midblock, the Winger get become goalscorers. If you press high, the f9 and Mez are more threats itself.

[avenger22]

17 hours ago, Maddux said:

So you agree that it can be done when you set it up right.

I play with 2 CM(a) since fm 15 and they score most than any strikers in the league but not more than mine i play with 2 x AF so yeah they can score alot but ofc my strikers score more, maybe i didn't get the stuff well, can you make CM or MEZZ to score alot ? absolutely yes pretty easy too, can you make CM(A) to score more than a striker in your team ? to me it has not happeneed even when playing with F9 or stuff like that a striker is always closer and more equiped to score but maybe in some cases it can get close