No winger formations/tactics

[Ricketts147]

In previous versions i've had sucess with no wingers/wide midfield players.

Fm23 I played 4-3-3 with wingbacks, 3 central mids, and 3 central strikers with good results.

Fm22 it was 5-3-2 with 3 centre backs, two advanced wingbacks, 3 centre mids and 2 strikers.

Most suggested tactics for FM24 seem to include wingers, is anyone doing well without wingers in this version and what set-up are you using?

[Maddux]

Wingbacks are winger that start from a deeper position

But the 4-4-2 diamond narrow comes to mind when talking about wingerless formation. You need some width in offense to stretch the defence but the width can be provided by the central midfielders in this formation.

The 4-4-2 diamond narrow was strong in FM 23, maybe a bit to strong with thr right TIs, but it's pretty bad in FM 24 because it's now to easy to close the mid of the pitch and force the play to the flanks. At least when the AI plays it and i'm able to keep them under 5 shots, most of them from outside the box.

I havend't tried it in FM 24 but there are a couple approaches that could work:

- 2x MEZ-At plus fullbacks with support roles/duties. rest of the formation with basic roles and duties

- 1 MEZ-At plus supporting fullback on his side, 1 MEZ-Su plus CWB-At on his side. rest of the formation basic

- same as above but with the DM in CM between the MEZ. This should be better the close the mid and support the fullbacks when your opponent has the ball.

Start with standard TIs and focus play through the middle. Maybe shorter and faster passing.

[crusadertsar]

8 hours ago, Maddux said:

Wingbacks are winger that start from a deeper position

But the 4-4-2 diamond narrow comes to mind when talking about wingerless formation. You need some width in offense to stretch the defence but the width can be provided by the central midfielders in this formation.

The 4-4-2 diamond narrow was strong in FM 23, maybe a bit to strong with thr right TIs, but it's pretty bad in FM 24 because it's now to easy to close the mid of the pitch and force the play to the flanks. At least when the AI plays it and i'm able to keep them under 5 shots, most of them from outside the box.

I havend't tried it in FM 24 but there are a couple approaches that could work:

- 2x MEZ-At plus fullbacks with support roles/duties. rest of the formation with basic roles and duties

- 1 MEZ-At plus supporting fullback on his side, 1 MEZ-Su plus CWB-At on his side. rest of the formation basic

- same as above but with the DM in CM between the MEZ. This should be better the close the mid and support the fullbacks when your opponent has the ball.

Start with standard TIs and focus play through the middle. Maybe shorter and faster passing.

I don't think AI can close you down and force the play to the flanks like you can do to AI. When i tried  Narrow Diamond in FM24 it's still very effective, if not more effective than in FM23. Tactic should never be judged by the metric of how well a human player can counter them. By that standard ALL formation would be terrible. Unless you play online against human opponents. Then it's a different ball game. But then I figure most of us, most of us included, are in this section of the forum because we don't care about PVP.

[Maddux]

vor 1 Minute schrieb crusadertsar:

I don't think AI can close you down and force the play to the flanks like you can do to AI. When i tried  Narrow Diamond in FM24 it's still very effective, if not more effective than in FM23. Tactic should never be judged by the metric of how well a human player can counter them. By that standard ALL formation would be terrible. Unless you play online against human opponents. Then it's a different ball game. But then I figure most of us, most of us included, are in this section of the forum because we don't care about PVP.

As i wrote, i havend't tried the formation in FM 24 myself and can just judge it by what i see from the AI. There is one team max per league that uses the formation compared to the 2 - 4 per league in FM 22 and 23. And in FM 24 it needs just 2 TIs to shut the formation down.

[crusadertsar]

34 minutes ago, Maddux said:

As i wrote, i havend't tried the formation in FM 24 myself and can just judge it by what i see from the AI. There is one team max per league that uses the formation compared to the 2 - 4 per league in FM 22 and 23. And in FM 24 it needs just 2 TIs to shut the formation down.

Again you are talking from human player perspective. In FM24 AI is not very good at shutting down any of the formations I tried. This might be easy from human player perspective. But that's not the logic you can apply to AI. The combinations of roles AI uses dont help with this either. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by crusadertsar

[kopfan1977]

19 hours ago, Ricketts147 said:

In previous versions i've had sucess with no wingers/wide midfield players.

Fm23 I played 4-3-3 with wingbacks, 3 central mids, and 3 central strikers with good results.

Fm22 it was 5-3-2 with 3 centre backs, two advanced wingbacks, 3 centre mids and 2 strikers.

Most suggested tactics for FM24 seem to include wingers, is anyone doing well without wingers in this version and what set-up are you using?

 

These are 3 that I've been using with good success. Can at times be a little leaky (3-6 defeat at home v Real Madrid last season was probably my worst in 4 seasons) 

All based around the same instructions with similar shapes. 

[Poison]

I've played a little bit of Christmas tree formation in Serie A (3DMs 2 AMs), however the players didn't like it so I switched to a classic 4-2-3-1. Then we were leaking defensively and the chairman wasn't happy. Oh well, you can't win them all I guess.

[crusadertsar]

Here is one for the naysayers doubting the power of the Narrow Diamond

Coincidentally it is the latest result from tonight's playing session where I utilized my 4-4-2 Narrow Diamond tactic. Real Sociedad in 2nd season so mostly original squad with a few new faces like Hugo Guillamon in defence. Against a mostly healthy (the only injury being to Kovacic) Man City squad in Champions League. The most satisfying thing was seeing the Norwegian brute Haaland finish the game with 6.1 rating. He sure tried. And they sure couldn't seem to shut us down haha.

 

I also like the fact that all of our 4 goals came from open play and not set pieces. I don't want to further derail this thread so to those interested I will be happy to expand more on the tactic this weekend in my own "Defence-First Football" thread on here.

In Football Manager it's not so much about the players you have or the formation. It is how you use them.

Edited December 16, 2023 by crusadertsar

[avenger22]

FM24 the narrow formations without wingers are very strong so you can have success with any type of shape as long as the TI and PI are good and roles combination, i prefer using 3-5-2 with 2 WB in attack, 2 CM in attack and a DM or DLP in support, you attack the box with 6 players and defend very compactly with 8 players and 2 strikers who can help it is a very good shape, then there is the diamond, the 4-2-2-2 with 2 AM and 2 DM which is very strong and many more