Making a tactic around a single player with 4 forwards (attacking midfield/wingers or strikers)

[Bumble.Ree]

My player (Luis) is pretty much a complete forward but very small and very weak. He can do everything, top assister, top scorer, 17 dribbling, 16 long shots, 18 finishing, 19 decisions, 20 off the ball, he has it all, except strength and jumping reach basically. How do I make a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 or 4-2-2-2-narrow tactic entirely around him in either a striker or CAM role to make him the driving force of my team in every game? Attribute wise F9 is his best role but I played him a lot as an F9 and it doesn't net him too many goals so his teammates got all the rewards instead of him despite him being a much better player. As a Complete Forward he gets bullied by pressing and marking because of his 6 strength.

In real life even top teams make a tactic to put a single player entirely in the spotlight, like Barça did with Messi, like Real Madrid did with Ronaldo and now Bellingham in their 442 diamond formation.

At first I wanted to try the 442 diamond and play Luis like Bellingham, on the tip of the diamond, but appearantly narrow formations in this match engine don't work. Any tips?

[crusadertsar]

20 minutes ago, Bumble.Ree said:

My player (Luis) is pretty much a complete forward but very small and very weak. He can do everything, top assister, top scorer, 17 dribbling, 16 long shots, 18 finishing, 19 decisions, 20 off the ball, he has it all, except strength and jumping reach basically. How do I make a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 or 4-2-2-2-narrow tactic entirely around him in either a striker or CAM role to make him the driving force of my team in every game? Attribute wise F9 is his best role but I played him a lot as an F9 and it doesn't net him too many goals so his teammates got all the rewards instead of him despite him being a much better player. As a Complete Forward he gets bullied by pressing and marking because of his 6 strength.

In real life even top teams make a tactic to put a single player entirely in the spotlight, like Barça did with Messi, like Real Madrid did with Ronaldo and now Bellingham in their 442 diamond formation.

At first I wanted to try the 442 diamond and play Luis like Bellingham, on the tip of the diamond, but appearantly narrow formations in this match engine don't work. Any tips?

Who told you that narrow formations don't work? Every formation can work if it fits your players. Every formation also has it's weaknesses too. If anything there are no real overpowered formation this time around. FM24 is very balanced in that way. Just need to make the formation fit your players. With narrow formations you need to keep in mind it's weakness on wings but that can be compensated with smart use of roles such as Mezzalas and wingbacks. 

I think i will need to write a tactical update about my recent successes with narrow diamond because there seems to be lots false misleading information floating around.

Edited December 15, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Bumble.Ree]

8 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Who told you that narrow formations don't work? Every formation can work if it fits your players. Every formation also has it's weaknesses too. If anything there are no real overpowered formation this time around. FM24 is very balanced in that way. Just need to make the formation fit your players. With narrow formations you need to keep in mind it's weakness on wings but that can be compensated with smart use of roles such as Mezzalas and wingbacks. 

I think i will need to write a tactical update about my recent successes with narrow diamond because there seems to be lots false misleading information floating around.

I'm intrigued, what role do you use at the tip of the diamond? I haven't found much succes with AM(at) for some reason but I still heard the role is great in the FM24 match enginge compared to the FM23 one. Would a shadow striker work better?

[crusadertsar]

11 minutes ago, Bumble.Ree said:

I'm intrigued, what role do you use at the tip of the diamond? I haven't found much succes with AM(at) for some reason but I still heard the role is great in the FM24 match enginge compared to the FM23 one. Would a shadow striker work better?

No, definitely not AM(a). You need a role that drops deeper and works hard to link attack to midfield. Such as AP(a) or even AP(s). Then two strikers up top to go wider and work the two channels.

On principal I don't use two AFs because I find that combo to be downright exploitative that AI can't deal with and which easily wins games for me. So I usually pair one AF with either CF(s) or PF(A) depending on player.

Edited December 15, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Bumble.Ree]

4 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

No, definitely not AM(a). You need a role that drops deeper and works hard to link attack to midfield. Such as AP(a) or even AP(s). Then two strikers up top to go wider and work the two channels.

Is the AP(a) the star player in this formation or a different player? Coming back to my original question.

[crusadertsar]

3 minutes ago, Bumble.Ree said:

Is the AP(a) the star player in this formation or a different player? Coming back to my original question.

It helps if he is your creative star, the fantasista so to speak. Think Deke in Mourinho's Porto narrow diamond in 2005.

You want to channel attacks through him and give him most creative freedom while the rest of the team works very hard. And have very mobile forwards to take advantage of all the chances created by your AMC.

Edited December 15, 2023 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

He won't score many goals though. Your AF however probably will. And he doesn't need to have high Jumping Reach, not if he is fast and agile. And with decent enough strength and balance.

[Bumble.Ree]

10 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

He won't score many goals though. Your AF however probably will. And he doesn't need to have high Jumping Reach, not if he is fast and agile. And with decent enough strength and balance.

Hmm I'm looking for a role and tactic that'll make Luis the topscorer with also loads of assists. AP also has shoot less often as instruction while my guy has 18 finishing and 16 long shots

[crusadertsar]

4 minutes ago, Bumble.Ree said:

Hmm I'm looking for a role and tactic that'll make Luis the topscorer with also loads of assists. AP also has shoot less often as instruction while my guy has 18 finishing and 16 long shots

Well then look at my comment right above. Set him up as AF, especially since he is very mobile and has great dribbling. He would be wasted as Poacher. While as AF he can focus mostly on scoring. CF(s) besides him will hold up ball more and act as another creative force. And AMC in middle should be another source of support for your AF. This way your star striker is really well fed with chances. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Bumble.Ree]

4 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Well then look at my comment right above. Set him up as AF, especially since he is very mobile and has great dribbling. He would be wasted as Poacher. While as AF he can focus mostly on scoring. CF(s) besides him will hold up ball more and act as another creative force. And AMC in middle should be another source of support for your AF. This way your star striker is really well fed with chances. 

The problem is that he's also the most creative and the smartest player on my team and I need him to drop a bit deeper to make link up play. I tried him as an AF for half a season and we just were scoring and winning less. He's the creative pillar of my team so I feel like he'd be wasted as an AF, in his best season he scored 52 and assisted 44 goals in 41 starting appearances and 11 as a sub. But in that season I moved him around and was experimenting a lot with tactics so the AI just never had an answer. Now I'm looking for a tactic that can also give him a goal and assist per game without him being an advanced striker

[crusadertsar]

1 minute ago, Bumble.Ree said:

The problem is that he's also the most creative and the smartest player on my team and I need him to drop a bit deeper to make link up play. I tried him as an AF for half a season and we just were scoring and winning less. He's the creative pillar of my team so I feel like he'd be wasted as an AF, in his best season he scored 52 and assisted 44 goals in 41 starting appearances and 11 as a sub. But in that season I moved him around and was experimenting a lot with tactics so the AI just never had an answer. Now I'm looking for a tactic that can also give him a goal and assist per game without him being an advanced striker

Trequartista might be the role you are looking for. That or Shadow Striker.

[Bumble.Ree]

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

Trequartista might be the role you are looking for. That or Shadow Striker.

Trequarista in striker or CAM?

[crusadertsar]

3 minutes ago, Bumble.Ree said:

Trequarista in striker or CAM?

In striker role. Give him full freedom to create and score. And some kind of hardworking role next to him like PF(a) or PF(s).

Edited December 16, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Bumble.Ree]

6 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

In striker role. Give him full freedom to create and score. And some kind of hardworking role next to him like PF(a) or PF(s).

Hmm none of my current strikers can work well as a PF, guess I'll try shadow striker first, any suggestions on how to organise my other 3 forwards to make room for him?

[crusadertsar]

19 minutes ago, Bumble.Ree said:

Hmm none of my current strikers can work well as a PF, guess I'll try shadow striker first, any suggestions on how to organise my other 3 forwards to make room for him?

Shadow Striker is often best when he is offset to one side. In centre put some kind of striker that can hold up ball on support role. He doesn't necessarily need to be tall but just strong and with good balance. And ideally with good vision, passing and first touch. On the opposite side from your Shadow Striker you should play your other goal scorer such as AF or Poacher, depending on quality of your players. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by crusadertsar

[herne79]

13 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I think i will need to write a tactical update about my recent successes with narrow diamond because there seems to be lots false misleading information floating around.

We seem to be following the same path this year - our deep 4411s and we're also using a narrow diamond.  Narrow formations can indeed be very successful as you say, some good advice for the OP above.

I'll also add to not ignore the Trequartista role at AMC as an option (think Totti for example) with an AF + DLFs or CFs ahead and hard working supporting midfielders behind.

[crusadertsar]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

We seem to be following the same path this year - our deep 4411s and we're also using a narrow diamond.  Narrow formations can indeed be very successful as you say, some good advice for the OP above.

I'll also add to not ignore the Trequartista role at AMC as an option (think Totti for example) with an AF + DLFs or CFs ahead and hard working supporting midfielders behind.

Great minds think alike 

And good point on Treq. With a player with just right mental attributes it can be a great attacking/creative role. In some ways better than Shadow Striker.

Edited December 16, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Bumble.Ree]

11 hours ago, herne79 said:

We seem to be following the same path this year - our deep 4411s and we're also using a narrow diamond.  Narrow formations can indeed be very successful as you say, some good advice for the OP above.

I'll also add to not ignore the Trequartista role at AMC as an option (think Totti for example) with an AF + DLFs or CFs ahead and hard working supporting midfielders behind.

I've been using a narrow formation for a few games now and it hasn't been working very well, where can I find an example of the tactic?