cup with multiple stages shows trophy award between stages

[Ilici Man]

So, I have a cup with 3 stages. a knockout stage, a group stage and another knockout stage

 

it works fine but, after the first knockout stage, the winning teams that qualify for the group stage, are shown that trophy award cutscene at the end of the game. 

 

i've been looking around but i can't find why this is so. 

[alian62]

upload file might hekp 

[Ilici Man]

3 hours ago, alian62 said:

upload file might hekp 

Sorry. Forgot that.

 

The cup is called cupa romaniei betano

oly8.fmf

[alian62]

11 hours ago, Ilici Man said:

Sorry. Forgot that.

 

The cup is called cupa romaniei betano

oly8.fmf 180.85 kB · 0 downloads

 

Cant see that cup ?

 

[Ilici Man]

it's the romanian cup. it shows a different name in my editor for some reason. 

this is a more recent file. there shouldn't be any changes to that competition between the two of them, but, just in case, here it is:

Thank you for taking the time to look through it

oly19.fmf

[rusty217]

Try adding Ranking Levels maybe? Looks like it "eliminates" all the teams after the Seventh Round, with the winner being given Ranking level 0 (ie. competition winner). With Ranking Levels setup it should recognise that the competition isn't over for them and they have separate highest/lowest Ranking Levels available still.

[Ilici Man]

2 hours ago, rusty217 said:

Try adding Ranking Levels maybe? Looks like it "eliminates" all the teams after the Seventh Round, with the winner being given Ranking level 0 (ie. competition winner). With Ranking Levels setup it should recognise that the competition isn't over for them and they have separate highest/lowest Ranking Levels available still.

i've never used ranking levels before. what would i need to add to make it work?

[rusty217]

1 hour ago, Ilici Man said:

i've never used ranking levels before. what would i need to add to make it work?

You need to add them to every round, and the group stage. Like this:

That's the final, so the winner gets ranking 0, loser ranking 1. No highest/lowest rankings needed since the teams are finished in the competition.

That's the semi, winner has current ranking of 0 since it's still possible for them to win it. Highest of 0, for the same reason. And lowest of 1 since the worst they could do is finish as the runner-up. Loser has current of 2 and no highest/lowest since they're knocked out. If there were a 3rd place play-off then the loser would have current 2, highest 2, lowest 3 with the 3rd place play-off giving 2 to the winner and 3 to the loser.

That's the group stage. The top 2 go through so get current 0, highest 0 and lowest 3. The next round is the quarter final, which gives a ranking of 3 to the loser, hence why it's the lowest here. Bottom 2 go out so have a current ranking only since it's final for them.

And that's the Ranking Level Info page which tells the game how each ranking should be treated. So 0 = winner, 1 = got to the final, 2 = got to the semi etc. You also need to specify how many teams for each ranking, eg. 2 semi final losers, 4 quarter final losers etc.

Start from the final and work back, basically just adding 1 to the winner's lowest ranking and the loser's current ranking each step back.

Most history/winner issues are due to ranking levels not being setup, so could fix the issue for you here.

[Ilici Man]

I will try and see if that changes anything

[Ilici Man]

it seems to have fixed it, thank you very much

[Roy Race 9]

On 24/01/2024 at 22:00, rusty217 said:

You need to add them to every round, and the group stage. Like this:

That's the final, so the winner gets ranking 0, loser ranking 1. No highest/lowest rankings needed since the teams are finished in the competition.

That's the semi, winner has current ranking of 0 since it's still possible for them to win it. Highest of 0, for the same reason. And lowest of 1 since the worst they could do is finish as the runner-up. Loser has current of 2 and no highest/lowest since they're knocked out. If there were a 3rd place play-off then the loser would have current 2, highest 2, lowest 3 with the 3rd place play-off giving 2 to the winner and 3 to the loser.

That's the group stage. The top 2 go through so get current 0, highest 0 and lowest 3. The next round is the quarter final, which gives a ranking of 3 to the loser, hence why it's the lowest here. Bottom 2 go out so have a current ranking only since it's final for them.

And that's the Ranking Level Info page which tells the game how each ranking should be treated. So 0 = winner, 1 = got to the final, 2 = got to the semi etc. You also need to specify how many teams for each ranking, eg. 2 semi final losers, 4 quarter final losers etc.

Start from the final and work back, basically just adding 1 to the winner's lowest ranking and the loser's current ranking each step back.

Most history/winner issues are due to ranking levels not being setup, so could fix the issue for you here.

Hi

really great post 

I have my own Euros  6 groups with 6 teams in each group

top 2 teams qualify for KO round along with the best 4 teams finishing 3rd

there are 7 stages in total [one is a hidden stage the overall table which allows team mapping to take place using the  best 4 teams who finished 3rd in the group stage]

can you when free just remind me the rankings here at group stage[as below], I am confused due to the 4 best 3rd placed teams

 

also under the ranking rules tab is this right? as I am unsure about the Third place play off stage

thanks for your help

cheers

Edited Tuesday at 03:08 by Roy Race 9

[rusty217]

15 hours ago, Roy Race 9 said:

Hi

really great post 

I have my own Euros  6 groups with 6 teams in each group

top 2 teams qualify for KO round along with the best 4 teams finishing 3rd

there are 7 stages in total [one is a hidden stage the overall table which allows team mapping to take place using the  best 4 teams who finished 3rd in the group stage]

can you when free just remind me the rankings here at group stage[as below], I am confused due to the 4 best 3rd placed teams

 

also under the ranking rules tab is this right? as I am unsure about the Third place play off stage

thanks for your help

cheers

It's a different way than I'd do it, but in your case I'd suggest adding ranking levels to the hidden stage. Give the top 4 that qualify to the next round the same ranking levels as those that finish 1st/2nd and rankings below that to the rest.

Then under Ranking Rules select the Ranking Level Priority page. There you can tell it to prioritise the hidden stage ranking for those teams. Up to you how deep you go into it, eg. you could include all stages in priority order, or just limit it to the necessary ones. So Stage 1 Ranking 5, Stage 0 highest ranking 6. Should tell it that the Stage 1 ranking for teams the progress overrides the Stage 0 ranking that shows them going out. Worth testing in the editor to make sure the correct ranking levels are applied though, not something I've done myself yet.

Also FYI you don't need multiple cup stages. You could have all your rounds in a single stage, so reduce it to 3 stages total (group stage, hidden league table, and cup stage). It's mostly personal preference, but IIRC the tree view for knockout rounds only works in game if rounds are in the same stage. Plus it's significantly easier to setup (unless converting from basic rules which does multi-stage knockout rounds by default), not need to get teams to move between stages, they just automatically progress to the next round. The only exception is the 3rd place playoff, but that's pretty easy still. Let's say your semi is round 2, 3rd place playoff round 3 and final round 4. In the semi you add Index of next round for winner = 4, loser = 3. And in the 3rd place playoff add Index for winner/loser = -1.

[Roy Race 9]

6 hours ago, rusty217 said:

It's a different way than I'd do it, but in your case I'd suggest adding ranking levels to the hidden stage. Give the top 4 that qualify to the next round the same ranking levels as those that finish 1st/2nd and rankings below that to the rest.

Then under Ranking Rules select the Ranking Level Priority page. There you can tell it to prioritise the hidden stage ranking for those teams. Up to you how deep you go into it, eg. you could include all stages in priority order, or just limit it to the necessary ones. So Stage 1 Ranking 5, Stage 0 highest ranking 6. Should tell it that the Stage 1 ranking for teams the progress overrides the Stage 0 ranking that shows them going out. Worth testing in the editor to make sure the correct ranking levels are applied though, not something I've done myself yet.

Also FYI you don't need multiple cup stages. You could have all your rounds in a single stage, so reduce it to 3 stages total (group stage, hidden league table, and cup stage). It's mostly personal preference, but IIRC the tree view for knockout rounds only works in game if rounds are in the same stage. Plus it's significantly easier to setup (unless converting from basic rules which does multi-stage knockout rounds by default), not need to get teams to move between stages, they just automatically progress to the next round. The only exception is the 3rd place playoff, but that's pretty easy still. Let's say your semi is round 2, 3rd place playoff round 3 and final round 4. In the semi you add Index of next round for winner = 4, loser = 3. And in the 3rd place playoff add Index for winner/loser = -1.

Thanks for the detailed reply very helpful

just one question on the rankings- it is used to set expectations rather than giving ranking points to say a nation? as I have comps set up with no rankings and it doesnt effect the nation gaining points/improving rankings

As regards the stage/round set up 

I always set group/cup with multiple rounds as per first 2 images below, its much easier/quicker[however this didnt work with the  hidden stage it didnt get the 4th best 3rd teams it was random possibly a bug, I spent ages trying to fix it]

 

However when I switched to this set up, rounds as a stage it worked correctly, its just odd mate

the best 3rd place teams were correct and the comp plays out as set up I have no explanation why this set up works and the other didnt

 

 

 

 

   

Edited Tuesday at 18:56 by Roy Race 9

[rusty217]

11 hours ago, Roy Race 9 said:

Thanks for the detailed reply very helpful

just one question on the rankings- it is used to set expectations rather than giving ranking points to say a nation? as I have comps set up with no rankings and it doesnt effect the nation gaining points/improving rankings

As regards the stage/round set up 

I always set group/cup with multiple rounds as per first 2 images below, its much easier/quicker[however this didnt work with the  hidden stage it didnt get the 4th best 3rd teams it was random possibly a bug, I spent ages trying to fix it]

Yeah it shouldn't affect world rankings or anything like that. Not having ranking levels set up is usually fine, the game does it automatically, just need to set them up for more complicated setups where the game is liable to mess up the automatic one. Like straight leagues with no playoffs or anything work perfectly without setting up ranking levels, the game calculates everything correctly by itself. It's usually just when there are multiple stages, particularly with knockout rounds, that you need to set them up to get things working right.

Ah, that's annoying. Sometimes the editor does dumb things like that. Just recently I couldn't get a competition to work so gave up and downloaded an alternative version, now it ignores the version I downloaded and runs mine instead. No idea why having a file with different rules for that competition made my rules work, but it did so I'll take it

[themodelcitizen]

Could it be trying to merge the rules (combining/overriding any checked boxes and non-greyed out settings), along with the default rules, if they're both set to flexible?

[oche balboa]

On 24/01/2024 at 11:55, Ilici Man said:

it seems to have fixed it, thank you very much

Rusty is a genius on all this.