Anyone found a shout (or something else) for the "looked nervous coming on" body language?

[Bahnzo]

I just don't get this. Some of my more veteran players constantly exhibit this. I've tried "No Pressure" and I've tried "Encourage" and it changes nothing. Anyone have any ideas?

[TehGoatLord]

How is their morale when the game starts?

[Bahnzo]

11 minutes ago, TehGoatLord said:

How is their morale when the game starts?

No problems there. 

[NineCloudNine]

Do you give the ‘team talk’ when they come on?

[johnwalker]

I have found you can't do much with body language after a sub has come on. 

You can only influence after they've been on for 15 minutes and their body language resets. 

Happy to be proved wrong if someone has found different.

[crusadertsar]

I actually find that "no pressure" individual shout works almost every time to dispell nervousness. The effectiveness could depend on the personality though.

[MagicHat]

10 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

I just don't get this. Some of my more veteran players constantly exhibit this. I've tried "No Pressure" and I've tried "Encourage" and it changes nothing. Anyone have any ideas?

Try picking him individually, just after he's come on and and encourage. It's something i've noticed that it doesn't seem to work if you say it to him when he comes on but it works if you say it a minute later (sometimes). These kind of things are probably the most tricky in the game - as for me i always get the complacent body language on my players that are on the bench. So say if i'm winning 3-0 the actual players on the pitch are all good morale but some of the subs have complacent... so when i want to bring my bench on to rest during an easy win it just kinda makes it more likely to backfire because the players im bringing on are complacent...

 

So to clarify, no team talk - then individually encourage.

Edited January 22 by MagicHat

[Bahnzo]

10 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

Do you give the ‘team talk’ when they come on?

I do, but only if they aren't already inspired or motivated or something similar. 

8 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I actually find that "no pressure" individual shout works almost every time to dispell nervousness. The effectiveness could depend on the personality though.

I'll try it again, but it's never worked for me so far. I do my best to have "good" personality types, so not sure what personalities it doesn't affect. 

5 hours ago, MagicHat said:

Try picking him individually, just after he's come on and and encourage. It's something i've noticed that it doesn't seem to work if you say it to him when he comes on but it works if you say it a minute later (sometimes). These kind of things are probably the most tricky in the game - as for me i always get the complacent body language on my players that are on the bench. So say if i'm winning 3-0 the actual players on the pitch are all good morale but some of the subs have complacent... so when i want to bring my bench on to rest during an easy win it just kinda makes it more likely to backfire because the players im bringing on are complacent...

 

So to clarify, no team talk - then individually encourage.

I'll try this and see. I usually do a team talk if I notice they are nervous coming on, and am usually successful with at least getting a "looks inspired" or similar.  

[Bahnzo]

I'm really frustrated with how this is working. 

You can sub a player, and if you see he is nervous, you can use a shout and even if you get a good result (green face) he still goes into the game as "looked nervous coming on". 

Had a player I needed to sub on 5 mins before halftime due to an injury with exactly what I described above. Gave him a talk....nothing. Halftime comes around, I give a team talk which is well received and gave the player an individual talk which again resulted in a "looked inspired". Comes into the game "looked nervous coming on". 

Broken. Just broken. Feels like I should've left the damn injured player on....

Edited January 24 by Bahnzo

[Cloud9]

48 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

I'm really frustrated with how this is working. 

You can sub a player, and if you see he is nervous, you can use a shout and even if you get a good result (green face) he still goes into the game as "looked nervous coming on". 

Had a player I needed to sub on 5 mins before halftime due to an injury with exactly what I described above. Gave him a talk....nothing. Halftime comes around, I give a team talk which is well received and gave the player an individual talk which again resulted in a "looked inspired". Comes into the game "looked nervous coming on". 

Broken. Just broken. Feels like I should've left the damn injured player on....

Your attributes as manager and the player's attributes influence how feedback is received and how they react to in game situations.

If you have difficult players or low attributes yourself, you'll need to work on your man management. Player's require individualized feedback to get the best out of them, it's not a one size fit all situation. Just because you don't know how to motivate your players doesn't indicate the game is broken. 

If you dislike man management or just want to play the game on an easier mode starting with full badges + managing professional player's at the top level will make it pretty easy. Check your player's personality + media handling to get a better picture of how to manage them properly. You can view your own managerial personality by going to "pre-season predictions" and selecting your team (these will develop over time based on how you choose to manage and coaching courses).

One of the great things FM offers is that careful, intentional management can get the best out of difficult players. A few years back in my Sheffield Wednesday save I was able to get the best out of the very talented Saido Berahino (who's career had stagnated), but it meant spending a lot of time working on individualized feedback for the player to help him develop in training and keep his morale up in matches/throughout the week. This is even easier + more user friendly on FM24 w/targets etc. 

Here is a guide to player personalities & media handling: https://www.fmscout.com/a-guide-to-player-personalities-football-manager.html

Edited January 24 by Cloud9

[Bahnzo]

25 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Your attributes as manager and the player's attributes influence how feedback is received and how they react to in game situations.

If you have difficult players or low attributes yourself, you'll need to work on your man management. Player's require individualized feedback to get the best out of them, it's not a one size fit all situation. Just because you don't know how to motivate your players doesn't indicate the game is broken. 

These are my attributes for my manager. I'm pretty damn good at motivating players. The player I talked about above, is a 6 year starter for me whom I sat out that game to give a little rest. He's got a "perfectionist" personality and a level-head media personality. There's no reason he should be nervous coming in a game. 

The "looked nervous coming on" is broken as far as I'm concerned. 

Edited January 24 by Bahnzo

[crusadertsar]

7 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

These are my attributes for my manager. I'm pretty damn good at motivating players. The player I talked about above, is a 6 year starter for me whom I sat out that game to give a little rest. He's got a "perfectionist" personality and a level-head media personality. There's no reason he should be nervous coming in a game. 

The "looked nervous coming on" is broken as far as I'm concerned. 

You just said it. Here is your problem. He has a perfectionist personality. I hate managing perfectionists. It's actually not the best personality when it comes to players' reactions to when game is going badly. Or when. In general there is stress involved. Just look at examples of real life perfectionist footballers like Ronaldo. How they throw a hissy fit the moment things dont go their way. 

Edited January 24 by crusadertsar

[Bahnzo]

12 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

You just said it. Here is your problem. He has a perfectionist personality. I hate managing perfectionists. It's actually not the best personality when it comes to players' reactions to when game is going badly. Or when. In general there is stress involved. Just look at examples of real life perfectionist footballers like Ronaldo. How they throw a hissy fit the moment things dont go their way. 

Sorry, but that doesn't fly. There's no reason for a vet to be nervous coming into a game. Also, if I catch it and give him a talk beforehand which changes him to "looked inspired" or something similar with the green face, then why would he still be nervous? Ad to that he was in the game, went thru a halftime teamtalk which resulted in green faces for everyone and then STILL was "looked nervous" in the second half? Nah.....no way. 

Edit: here's another example. I'm playing a match right now against a bottom table team. I have a CD who isn't getting much game time and is a little concerned about it so I started him. He was nervous in the pre game. I gave him a talk, and now he's "appears inspired" at the start of the game. So that seems to work. it's just this "looked nervous coming on" which doesn't seem to work. 

Edited January 24 by Bahnzo

[crusadertsar]

4 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

Sorry, but that doesn't fly. There's no reason for a vet to be nervous coming into a game. Also, if I catch it and give him a talk beforehand which changes him to "looked inspired" or something similar with the green face, then why would he still be nervous? Ad to that he was in the game, went thru a halftime teamtalk which resulted in green faces for everyone and then STILL was "looked nervous" in the second half? Nah.....no way. 

Edit: here's another example. I'm playing a match right now against a bottom table team. I have a CD in who isn't getting much game time and is a little concerned about. So I started him. He was nervous in the pre game. I have him a talk, and now he's "appears inspired" at the start of the game. So, that seems to work. it's just this "looked nervous coming on" which doesn't seem to work. 

Then you should probably read the guide posted by @Cloud9 very good advice there. This aspect of the game is quite tricky and doesn't really yield 100% sure results as players are not meant to be automatons that respond exact same way to every shout. That would be way too "gamey". Just like with tactics, there are no 100% certainties.

[Vänsterback]

19 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

Sorry, but that doesn't fly. There's no reason for a vet to be nervous coming into a game. Also, if I catch it and give him a talk beforehand which changes him to "looked inspired" or something similar with the green face, then why would he still be nervous? Ad to that he was in the game, went thru a halftime teamtalk which resulted in green faces for everyone and then STILL was "looked nervous" in the second half? Nah.....no way. 

Edit: here's another example. I'm playing a match right now against a bottom table team. I have a CD who isn't getting much game time and is a little concerned about it so I started him. He was nervous in the pre game. I gave him a talk, and now he's "appears inspired" at the start of the game. So that seems to work. it's just this "looked nervous coming on" which doesn't seem to work. 

Of course some experienced players are nervous as well. Google Per Mertesacker. Acting confident when the manager talks to you despite feeling on the verge of breaking is not strange at all. Not saying that the game represent this perfectly but what you describe does not contradict logic.

[Bahnzo]

15 minutes ago, Vänsterback said:

Of course some experienced players are nervous as well. Google Per Mertesacker. Acting confident when the manager talks to you despite feeling on the verge of breaking is not strange at all. Not saying that the game represent this perfectly but what you describe does not contradict logic.

It's not so much that they get nervous, it's there's seemingly no way to solve it. Like I've been saying, you can see they are nervous when you sub them in, and give them a talk that seems to change it. But it doesn't. Ever. Even if once in a while it didn't, that would make sense. But it never does, and that is what's not realistic. And it's frustrating because these subs are taking attribute hits and not playing up to their expectations due to this. Always. 

[lied90]

On 25/01/2024 at 20:52, Bahnzo said:

It's not so much that they get nervous, it's there's seemingly no way to solve it. Like I've been saying, you can see they are nervous when you sub them in, and give them a talk that seems to change it. But it doesn't. Ever. Even if once in a while it didn't, that would make sense. But it never does, and that is what's not realistic. And it's frustrating because these subs are taking attribute hits and not playing up to their expectations due to this. Always. 

I like playing with brexit players. I've had Ashley Barnes in my team more times than I can count, and he more or less always has the "looks aggressive" body language for 90 min. I imagine it would be the same with a player like Roy Keane. Can you imagine calming down Roy Keane with some magic words? I don't.

Sometimes a player is just nervous because of some "mentality calculations" the game does in the background, and your words simply don't have the power to change it. I don't think this is necessarily is a problem with the game.

[Bahnzo]

13 hours ago, lied90 said:

I like playing with brexit players. I've had Ashley Barnes in my team more times than I can count, and he more or less always has the "looks aggressive" body language for 90 min. I imagine it would be the same with a player like Roy Keane. Can you imagine calming down Roy Keane with some magic words? I don't.

Sometimes a player is just nervous because of some "mentality calculations" the game does in the background, and your words simply don't have the power to change it. I don't think this is necessarily is a problem with the game.

Any player with a high aggressive attribute will always display that. And it's not a bad thing you want to remove. Being aggressive doesn't equate to making bad tackles or bad behavior. 

I can't for the life of me understand why people want to make excuses for this. It's definitely a problem that you can NEVER alleviate a player who "looks nervous coming on" even when you catch it and give him a talk which goes well and appears to change him. Should it work all the time? Of course not, that wouldn't seem normal. But it NEVER works. Did I say NEVER enough times yet? The fact it NEVER works is the problem and unrealistic.