[Mostly Solved] Team's Don't "Stick" After Being Distributed from Separate Comp

[underklassh3ro]

I have a custom 7 tier system. Tiers 1-5 operate separately from tiers 6-7 in regards to pro/rel. 10 teams from T6 go down to T7 and vice versa. Otherwise no interaction with T1-5.

Except every 5 years, when the bottom half of T5, entire T6, and top half of T7 go into a cup tournament (The Culling) to redistribute those teams. Group winners go to T5, Group losers go to T7, others go to T6.

This seems to work correctly and the year immediately following this tournament, the teams play in their correct leagues.

However, one year after that (tournament + 2), the teams all go back. Tier 5 will not Get any teams who started in T6 or T7.

Here is how I have the rule set up. This is Tier 5. For testing, I have manually set the rule years, and for only 2025 I have that separate "Culling" ruleset which ends the league earlier and sends the bottom half to the Culling. I have this rule setup for T5, T6, and T7

Here is how I'm getting the teams for Tier 5. First rule just gets all teams and is set to end in 2024. No team rules for 2025 in this ruleset. Then in 2026 only I get the teams from the Culling in addition to the other 14 teams who should be there (relegated from T4 as well as teams who didnt get promoted to T4 but didnt go to The Culling. )

The problem happens in 2027. That rule refuses to Get teams who began the game in T6 or T7 and breaks testing by only having 25-28 teams.

Here is an example of the T5 2026 team rule working. Burnley came from T6 (Fluxys), won their Culling group, and played 2026 in T5. They didn't get promoted from T5 and there is no relegation. They should remain in the league for 2027.

 

But here is the 2027 Get rule. It only pulls 28 teams instead of 30 and all 8 teams (including Burnley) that came from T6 or T7 are missed.

A couple notes from debugging:

-The teams ignored by the 2027 T5 rule wind up back in the league they came from during the Culling season.

-I have U19 and U23 youth groups set up which mirror T1-7. These groups do not accurately reflect redistribution from the Culling. For example, Burnley's youth teams played the 2026 season still in youth Group 6 rather than youth Group 5

 

It feels like teams don't "Stick" after the Culling - i.e. they are not being permanently reassigned to the new leagues. This might be an issue with the way the Culling does promotion/relegation since it's potentially not recognized as part of the pyramid, since it's a separate tournament that is only played intermittently? Can cups even be used to correctly qualify teams into other divisions?

Finally here's the basic settings for the Culling in case something here is immediately notable.

Thank you in advance!

Edited February 7 by underklassh3ro
see bottom post, didn't solve the initial problem but learned in the process

[rijclt]

Are you using Qualify Team For Competition (Using Positions) to assign divisions to each team in the Culling? This could be the reason why the correct division is not being registered.

 

hace 9 horas, underklassh3ro dijo:

Can cups even be used to correctly qualify teams into other divisions

I have had some experience with this. I was trying to set up a reserve league system with four divisions and a cup competition for all reserve teams outside this system to qualify for division four each year.

What made it work was setting this qualifying competition as a division below division four, instead of a cup competition, and creating a (hidden) league stage and a cup stage. Teams that reach a certain round in the cup stage have their league fate actions set to promoted in the league stage, so the game understands that these teams are being promoted and have their correct division set.

So my suggestion is, look into league fate actions - set other league fate in the Culling. 

In your case, it does require you to set up a promotion/relegation relationship between T5 and T6, specifying number of promotion/relegation places = 0.

However, I don't know how multiple promotions (T7 -> T5) or relegations (T5 - T7) can be set up that way, or if the game even tolerates that.

[underklassh3ro]

On 25/01/2024 at 00:01, rijclt said:

Are you using Qualify Team For Competition (Using Positions) to assign divisions to each team in the Culling? This could be the reason why the correct division is not being registered.

I am. I have made changes so instead of a whole new Cup, the Culling is now a stage in Tier 5 and I am not using any teams from Tier 7. Three teams per group. This is how the quals are set up - the 16 group winners qualify for Tier 5 (Porsche) and the Domestic Cup (Fiat), and the other 2 teams go to Tier 6 (Fluxys)

Unfortunately I am getting the same exact issue - the second season after the Culling, Tier 6 teams who were put into Tier 5 are moved back into Tier 6 and vice versa.

I'm not sure how to interpret your comment about Qualify (Using Positions) - is there a better way to do it that would register the correct division?

 

[rusty217]

On 02/02/2024 at 04:49, underklassh3ro said:

I am. I have made changes so instead of a whole new Cup, the Culling is now a stage in Tier 5 and I am not using any teams from Tier 7. Three teams per group. This is how the quals are set up - the 16 group winners qualify for Tier 5 (Porsche) and the Domestic Cup (Fiat), and the other 2 teams go to Tier 6 (Fluxys)

Unfortunately I am getting the same exact issue - the second season after the Culling, Tier 6 teams who were put into Tier 5 are moved back into Tier 6 and vice versa.

I'm not sure how to interpret your comment about Qualify (Using Positions) - is there a better way to do it that would register the correct division?

 

Qualify Team For Competition doesn't work for domestic leagues.

Have a look at how regular promotion/relegation playoffs work, you need to do it in a similar way. eg. if a team is in tier 5 and finish 1st then they get the league fate "No Fate" which is set in other stages too. If they're in tier 6 and finished1st they get the league fate "Promoted" which is set in other stages too. If they're in tier 5 and finish 2nd/3rd they get the league fate "Relegated" which is set in other stages too. If they're in tier 6 and finish 2nd/3rd they get the leage fate "No Fate" which is set in other stages too.

You basically need to tell their league what to do with the team, hence why it needs to apply to other stages (and search for the competition if necessary) too rather than just the stage/competition you're in. They need to get the league fate "Promoted", "No Fate", or "Relegated" assigned in their league for it to know whether to keep them where they are, promote them, or relegate them.

[underklassh3ro]

rusty is spot on, Bundesliga relegation playoff showed how to do this specifically. I've settled on T5 bottom 1 / T6 top 1 are auto promoted/relegated, and the next 15 teams each direction enter a 3-group x 10-team league stage which results in up to 15 teams promoted from T6 and 15 teams relegated from T5.

Thank you very much for the help @rusty217 ! Cheers