Second World cup for teams not in the FIFA WC

[Roy Race 9]

Hi

I am wanting to set up a second WC tournament [I have created my own bigger FIFA WC 64 teams]

but want a secondary comp to take place at the same time with another 64 nations not in the main comp

@Wolf_pd are you aware of a quick way I can set up to ignore qualified teams in the FIFA WC from this secondary comp

I dont care if they are random teams from the various continents as long as they dont use teams already in the WC

Cheers

[Wolf_pd]

43 minutes ago, Roy Race 9 said:

Hi

I am wanting to set up a second WC tournament [I have created my own bigger FIFA WC 64 teams]

but want a secondary comp to take place at the same time with another 64 nations not in the main comp

@Wolf_pd are you aware of a quick way I can set up to ignore qualified teams in the FIFA WC from this secondary comp

I dont care if they are random teams from the various continents as long as they dont use teams already in the WC

Cheers

If you use a setup date for the competition which is a few days later than the final qualification day, you should be able to use ignore teams qualified for competition.

Haven't used it myself, but it sounds like the most logical option to use.

[Roy Race 9]

6 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

If you use a setup date for the competition which is a few days later than the final qualification day, you should be able to use ignore teams qualified for competition.

Haven't used it myself, but it sounds like the most logical option to use.

Cheers

I saw the option but thought I would need to add a caveat of naming the actual comp qualified for to ignore and I cant see where to do that.

eg if my new comp is called FIFA World Silver Cup, I would be able to state in teams tab- ignore all teams qualified for FIFA World Cup

Edited February 25 by Roy Race 9

[Roy Race 9]

Couldnt get it to work using ignore teams qualified for competition  never mind 

[themodelcitizen]

As long as it draws after the WC and has "ignore teams" "best teams in competition" "world cup" it SHOULD exclude them, who knows with the editor this year mind you

[Roy Race 9]

39 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

As long as it draws after the WC and has "ignore teams" "best teams in competition" "world cup" it SHOULD exclude them, who knows with the editor this year mind you

Hi mate

I was doing it adding the continent too, perhaps I will try your suggestion later

cheers

Edited February 28 by Roy Race 9

[Roy Race 9]

2 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

As long as it draws after the WC and has "ignore teams" "best teams in competition" "world cup" it SHOULD exclude them, who knows with the editor this year mind you

Tried this[not stipulating a continent] still no joy

Edited February 28 by Roy Race 9

[Roy Race 9]

Trying this now

[Roy Race 9]

same outcome sadly

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

I agree that ignore teams in the scenarios above should be working. However, I thought about this idea this morning, and I wonder if this way would work? You could create a hidden league stage with all the nations in the fifa world in. Apply the ignore teams from world cup ruling. Set the league to play 0 games, and to sort the teams in world ranking order. If the ignore rule worked, you would then have a league table of all the nations in the world that are not in the world cup in world ranking order. You could set seedings to be incremental. Then for qualification of your competition you would get the top 64 teams from your league table, and have them go into the next stage, where you would then setup your cup competition. 

All this is a bit rudimental as I'm not on my pc, and going from memory of what may and may not work. 

[Roy Race 9]

4 hours ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

I agree that ignore teams in the scenarios above should be working. However, I thought about this idea this morning, and I wonder if this way would work? You could create a hidden league stage with all the nations in the fifa world in. Apply the ignore teams from world cup ruling. Set the league to play 0 games, and to sort the teams in world ranking order. If the ignore rule worked, you would then have a league table of all the nations in the world that are not in the world cup in world ranking order. You could set seedings to be incremental. Then for qualification of your competition you would get the top 64 teams from your league table, and have them go into the next stage, where you would then setup your cup competition. 

All this is a bit rudimental as I'm not on my pc, and going from memory of what may and may not work. 

Hi mate

sounds like an option but a lot of work when the ignore option should be the way to go

of interest I have got 80% of it working in that most teams taking part in my 'second' WC are not in the official FIFA WC

nearest to getting it to work is this here, in stage-0 group-teams and adding get lowest qualified teams

[tried various combinations this seems to be the best so far]

 also have to add rules here-

 

However some of the bigger nations Brazil Germany etc are still getting selected for both comps

so going to have a think and see what else I can try...in theory this should be simple 

Edited February 29 by Roy Race 9

[themodelcitizen]

Hmm maybe it's only taking in teams who have qualified in a certain pathway? Is the "setup date" for the competition after the World Cup has drawn its groups? Then "best teams in competition" should work, but who knows.. I was trying to do something like this in FM23 but with the bottom-ranked teams (like San Marino) but it would just take the best 48 ranked teams outside the World Cup no matter how many combinations of "reverse teams" I used

[rusty217]

I think it might be because of your order. I believe the game gets teams in top to bottom order, so telling it to get and ignore WC teams 2nd means it won't have ignored them and can pick any of them in the 1st Teams instruction to get 64 random teams. Move the ignore WC teams instruction to the top of the list and try that.

[Roy Race 9]

9 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Hmm maybe it's only taking in teams who have qualified in a certain pathway? Is the "setup date" for the competition after the World Cup has drawn its groups? Then "best teams in competition" should work, but who knows.. I was trying to do something like this in FM23 but with the bottom-ranked teams (like San Marino) but it would just take the best 48 ranked teams outside the World Cup no matter how many combinations of "reverse teams" I used

 

5 hours ago, rusty217 said:

I think it might be because of your order. I believe the game gets teams in top to bottom order, so telling it to get and ignore WC teams 2nd means it won't have ignored them and can pick any of them in the 1st Teams instruction to get 64 random teams. Move the ignore WC teams instruction to the top of the list and try that.

Thanks both

Rusty it may be that simple mate and I didnt think of that thanks for suggesting it...fingers crossed

cheers

[Roy Race 9]

cant try it now winter update not working for me

stuck in a loop wont complete download

 

[Roy Race 9]

managed to update game-6th go it finally installed

@rusty217 you beauty

by moving the order it is not selecting teams from the WC now

however I do not like seeing this in the teams list some not allocated a group the comp is for 64 teams but the list contains over 90 

I think I will have a play with being specific by continent to the exact numbers eg 20 from europe etc

 

Edited February 29 by Roy Race 9

[rusty217]

8 hours ago, Roy Race 9 said:

by moving the order it is not selecting teams from the WC now

however I do not like seeing this in the teams list some not allocated a group the comp is for 64 teams but the list contains over 90 

I think I will have a play with being specific by continent to the exact numbers eg 20 from europe etc

 

This might be because you're doubling up on teams. If you're using the Qualified Teams page, then the Lowest Qualified Teams from end of list should be all you need in the Stage. Try removing the Get Random Teams on the Stage Teams page, or alternaitvely remove the Qualified Teams instructions.

You might also need to change it to 63 teams, to account for the 1 host as well. Or even better, make sure the Get Host Team instruction is higher in the order, then rather than using Max Teams, change the others to Max Teams in Overall List, then it will automatically adjust the number of random teams depending on how many hosts. eg. 1 host it'll get 63 random teams, 2 hosts it'll get 62 random teams and so on.

[Roy Race 9]

Just a couple of issues I thought the issue was going to be getting teams but thanks to the input that is fixed

Now finally I am going to start a save run a quick last test on all my files and found that

The second World cup[Silver Cup] has 2 issues

1.It is exactly the same set up as my main WC 64 teams group sage and cup stage work as intended.All fixtures keep to the dates set up

However in this Silver cup I am finding the group fixtures in some groups are being played all over the place

 

2.I want to get the lowest rated 13 teams from Europe it is getting 12 correct but the 13th team isnt one of the lowest ranked it is well outside that

your help is appreciated

cheers

[Roy Race 9]

Tried moving the Silver Cup to start later than the World Cup

 

even re did new fixture dates

and set to highest priority in individual group rules 

most groups stick to the dates and play 2 fixtures on the same day

but some groups have 1 fixture one day and are all over the place some dates fall outside the group stage..some group stage games are taking part when the QF fixtures are set to take place

Edited June 6 by Roy Race 9

[keon]

Have you checked if there are enough stadiums which meet hosting criteria in the host nation (Indonesia)? I've found sometimes fixtures get re-arranged and don't follow what you put in the editor because it assigns games to one stadium on the same day causing a clash. One potential thing to look into anyway!

[themodelcitizen]

In fixture rules, make sure days between games is 2 (or even 1), just in case something gets rearranged. It sounds like there's stadium clashes, likely from fixtures in the same group or different groups trying to use the same stadium at the same time. Sometimes it delays games a week automatically if that happens. If you specify each game date using "offset dates" with specific stadiums mentioned, you can keep track and make sure there aren't any conflicts. For each specific stage or round you can set fixture priority as well.

Despite that there's still a possibility of clashes with league games at that ground, not sure you can do much about that short of setting an alternate stadium for the home club team during that time period.

[Roy Race 9]

14 hours ago, keon said:

Have you checked if there are enough stadiums which meet hosting criteria in the host nation (Indonesia)? I've found sometimes fixtures get re-arranged and don't follow what you put in the editor because it assigns games to one stadium on the same day causing a clash. One potential thing to look into anyway!

 

2 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

In fixture rules, make sure days between games is 2 (or even 1), just in case something gets rearranged. It sounds like there's stadium clashes, likely from fixtures in the same group or different groups trying to use the same stadium at the same time. Sometimes it delays games a week automatically if that happens. If you specify each game date using "offset dates" with specific stadiums mentioned, you can keep track and make sure there aren't any conflicts. For each specific stage or round you can set fixture priority as well.

Despite that there's still a possibility of clashes with league games at that ground, not sure you can do much about that short of setting an alternate stadium for the home club team during that time period.

thanks for the input I had set up the stadiums correctly with offset dates etc

its looking like the game just doesnt like having both comps in the same file

as I found that even though both comps are set correctly teams from the World Cup were qualifying for the first knockout round in the silver cup as well as the World Cup

going to run 2 files one for each comp see what happens

[Roy Race 9]

Phew looks like it fixed it by separating the 2 comps into 2 files how bizarre 

games played at correct stadiums etc so after a lot of head scratching and changing many things, a simple fix was the answer

occam's razor in action again

[themodelcitizen]

Nicely done. I was trying to get the bottom 32 teams in the world rankings in it at one point but couldn't get it to pull the right teams

[Roy Race 9]

18 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Nicely done. I was trying to get the bottom 32 teams in the world rankings in it at one point but couldn't get it to pull the right teams

yes there should be something added to this eg get teams high/low rated  based on current World Rankings from a continent

with this Mod I ran a few tests and there can be issues with host nations and stadiums so decided to go with Qatar/Saudi as the permanent hosts a sort of base for it [not ideal but IIRL the Saudi's would probably buy it anyway]

may look at trying other nations as a base for it but the host nation is unlikely to take part as it would be in the main WC eg Japan. Just playing around with it 

got a major nations league file working too, [was originally just European countries plays every 2 years [odd years] replaces normal nations league and Euro qualifiers as I have all nations in Euros finals] but opened it up to a World nations league now got to decide if I stick and then have to change the other continents comps their 'Euros' or just keep it for European nations

why do we do these projects

Edited June 7 by Roy Race 9

[themodelcitizen]

I think you can select host with "get from participating teams" but they have to be selected using "qualified teams" maybe? And they have to be qualified when it's set up. Or else it won't know who to use

World Nations League sounds amazing, you using something like the UEFA NL structure?

[Roy Race 9]

On 08/06/2024 at 19:39, themodelcitizen said:

I think you can select host with "get from participating teams" but they have to be selected using "qualified teams" maybe? And they have to be qualified when it's set up. Or else it won't know who to use

World Nations League sounds amazing, you using something like the UEFA NL structure?

I am getting there with nations league lol

there are groups of 6 teams trying to get it spread out between the FIFA regions and based on rankings

so in tests the groups are competitive teams are well matched like the UEFA NL structure     

2 teams get promoted 2 relegated,played every 2 years so you dont get the same teams playing each other all the time

[Roy Race 9]

some of the groups for nations league

 

[Roy Race 9]

On 07/06/2024 at 16:18, themodelcitizen said:

Nicely done. I was trying to get the bottom 32 teams in the world rankings in it at one point but couldn't get it to pull the right teams

 

On 08/06/2024 at 10:38, Roy Race 9 said:

yes there should be something added to this eg get teams high/low rated  based on current World Rankings from a continent

I may have found a solution that seems to work fingers crossed

try this-

get best national team -set continent and number needed

then here-sort teams descending 

use the seeding method as shown if all teams are from same continent if not leave seeding method blank

as I have scrapped all qualifiers for international/ continental comps as the same nations are playing each other all the time[euros/euro quals/wc quals/nations league etc]

now I have my own World nations played  every 2 years [in odd years] and teams get to play various similar sized nations from all the continents instead of the same old fixtures all the time[this is played virtually as tournament in summer bi annually 

by using this I am seeing smaller teams increasing rankings as they get to win more games

I then use the reputation method to get teams from each continent to enter the WC

and same again for the lower WC [Silver cup] excluding the nations already in the WC

beta tests it is looking promising 

IIRC I saw this  rule for the OFC Nations Cup, how the comp picks teams to take part its also in some minor Asisn comps too

hope this helps you

Edited June 29 by Roy Race 9

[themodelcitizen]

Brilliant. Does "sort by world ranking" work? Or is that option somewhere else? Maybe that's broken compared to just sorting by rep

[Roy Race 9]

On 03/07/2024 at 05:35, themodelcitizen said:

Brilliant. Does "sort by world ranking" work? Or is that option somewhere else? Maybe that's broken compared to just sorting by rep

yes mate there seems to be issues with that sort by world ranking

it is still pulling nations based on reputation not current fifa ranking

romania in FIFA WC Ireland in Silver bowl

 

[Roy Race 9]

@Wolf_pd do you know anything that could assist with this 

for the comp to select the best FIFA ranked teams rather than the nations with the higher reps

do you also know a way to balance the reputation of a nation with its current FIFA ranking[points] as nations reputation are not moving much from initial game start to reflect their increased/decreased FIFA rankings

also Russia take part in all internationals they get to the QF in Euros and qualify for the WC but still have 0 ranking points

cheers

Edited July 13 by Roy Race 9

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

9 minutes ago, Roy Race 9 said:

Russia take part in all internationals they get to the QF in Euros and qualify for the WC but still have 0 ranking points

The editor ranks the value 0 as higher than 1 which is why Russia are always at the top of lists like this.

[Roy Race 9]

12 minutes ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

The editor ranks the value 0 as higher than 1 which is why Russia are always at the top of lists like this.

yes I thought that but they dont even show here, they did before I got them back into international games

so thats odd

 

[Wolf_pd]

Are these the 'broken coefficients' then?

[Roy Race 9]

10 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Are these the 'broken coefficients' then?

I know the club coefficients are broken

real time it shows russia is gaining points but not reflected in game or with FIFA position

as they should be 24th

[themodelcitizen]

Can you change fifa position to 0 to 201 or whatever the lowest ranking is? Wonder if that would kickstart it into recognizing the ranking points somehow

[rusty217]

I'm pretty sure the Russia thing is hardcoded. They just don't show up on ranking lists. Also not allowed to play any games at home.

[Roy Race 9]

On 14/07/2024 at 19:02, rusty217 said:

I'm pretty sure the Russia thing is hardcoded. They just don't show up on ranking lists. Also not allowed to play any games at home.

yes mate you are correct

there is a way to fix the home games [pm as I dont think it can be discussed on the forums]

[Roy Race 9]

After playing around with  FIFA ranked teams rather than the nations with the higher reps issue to get teams in a comp

the simplest fix is not ideal but just involves a few minutes work a day before the set up date eg 13/12/25

I use the current points/FIFA position and accordingly change nation reputation to reflect that position in each continent

it only results in about a dozen changes to be made really 

I will run tests to see when the nation reputations start changing to reflect current 'form' is it in real time?or does it not change much 

seen Greece take a big leap up in reputation due to the set up I use [they are playing world nation league games against similar size nations and winning most so that is what I was expecting, however Germany are losing more than winning but their overall reputation is not dropping that much]

 

 

Edited July 15 by Roy Race 9