Improve my 4231 (much shorter passing, libero) please

[Novem9]

I have a good possession, but sometimes it's difficult to score a goals. Any tips about TIs or roles please?

[Cloud9]

15 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I have a good possession, but sometimes it's difficult to score a goals. Any tips about TIs or roles please?

If struggling to score goals, address the lack of width in the formation. Jackson also has very poor goal scoring movement, I think they've given him like 9 or something like this?

Off the ball is the key attribute for a solo spearheading striker for me. 

Edited June 6 by Cloud9

[Novem9]

16 минут назад, Cloud9 сказал:

If struggling to score goals, address the lack of width in the formation. Jackson also has very poor goal scoring movement, I think they've given him like 9 or something like this?

Off the ball is the key attribute for a solo spearheading striker for me. 

I'm playing journeyman. I would never buy him tbh.   

Perfect tip about off the ball!  I forget about this sometimes, wrong feeling it doesn't important in high-pressure/possession tactic.

 

Edited June 6 by Novem9

[Novem9]

1 час назад, Cloud9 сказал:

address the lack of width in the formation

It's helpful too! Thanks!

 

[crusadertsar]

You desperately need width. Right now the only player providing it in your tactic is your FB, and he is doing it in a very conservative manner. I am running with 4-2-3-1 with a winger and wingback on opposite sides and we are scoring for fun.

Agreed with @Cloud9 your front three need above average Off The Ball (relative to your league).

Edited June 7 by crusadertsar

[TheMartello]

8 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

You desperately need width. Right now the only player providing it in your tactic is your FB, and he is doing it in a very conservative manner. I am running with 4-2-3-1 with a winger and wingback on opposite sides and we are scoring for fun.

Agreed with @Cloud9 your front three need above average Off The Ball (relative to your league).

New tactic of you?

[crusadertsar]

12 hours ago, TheMartello said:

New tactic of you?

Something simple like this is what I am using and its working very well. 

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Something simple like this is what I am using and its working very well. 

How is play out from defence working for you in the setup? I gave up on using it all together this year in my save but would love to incorporate it if I could do so successfully. 

[TheMartello]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Something simple like this is what I am using and its working very well. 

No player instructions?

Thanks!

[crusadertsar]

7 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

How is play out from defence working for you in the setup? I gave up on using it all together this year in my save but would love to incorporate it if I could do so successfully. 

I also abandoned it at one point but now came back to using it selectively against specific opposition (inferior opponents who don't press me hard in my half). It seems to work well but then I have a BPD player who is practically a playmaker with excellent vision, dribbling and passing attribute of 17.

Edited June 8 by crusadertsar

[Novem9]

В 07.06.2024 в 16:42, crusadertsar сказал:

You desperately need width. Right now the only player providing it in your tactic is your FB, and he is doing it in a very conservative manner. I am running with 4-2-3-1 with a winger and wingback on opposite sides and we are scoring for fun.

Agreed with @Cloud9 your front three need above average Off The Ball (relative to your league).

Once again I was convinced that I don’t know how to use a libero, and I don’t need this.

I'm using ifb-cb-bpd-wb(a) now and have nice 3CB in possession.

Your tactic on the last screen inspired me, thank you  My updates roles: DLPs and DMs (best role in fm24 isn't?) and Ws IFs on flanks. Won Coppa Italia against Juve 3-0 (and comeback against Inter in 1/2) and won Conference League against Aston Villa 4-1 

Edited June 8 by Novem9

[BrunosTaxi]

3 小时前, crusadertsar说:

I also abandoned it at one point but now came back to using it selectively against specific opposition (inferior opponents who don't press me hard in my half). It seems to work well but then I have a BPD player who is practically a playmaker with excellent vision, dribbling and passing attribute of 17.

Is it necessary to keep the play out of defence TI if I want to have high possession?

[TheMartello]

55 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Once again I was convinced that I don’t know how to use a libero, and I don’t need this.

I'm using ifb-cb-bpd-wb(a) now and have nice 3CB in possession.

Your tactic on the last screen inspired me, thank you  My updates roles: DLPs and DMs (best role in fm24 isn't?) and Ws IFs on flanks. Won Coppa Italia against Juve 3-0 (and comeback against Inter in 1/2) and won Conference League against Aston Villa 4-1 

Can you post a screenshot of your updated tactic?

[Cloud9]

6 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I also abandoned it at one point but now came back to using it selectively against specific opposition (inferior opponents who don't press me hard in my half). It seems to work well but then I have a BPD player who is practically a playmaker with excellent vision, dribbling and passing attribute of 17.

Interesting, thanks  The closest I got to success w/it this year was a 3-4-2-1 and two BPD in the outer CD positions.

Have you had any success using it against better teams? I was hoping the pivot would provide a passing option when building up from the back but even w/these outlets using the TI against strong opposition has felt like inevitable trouble. 

For reference, this was the base of the 3-4-2-1 that I was trying to play out of the back with. Briefly ran a DLP(s) in the pivot (due to recycling the ball which I thought would help in buildup play) but ended up going back matching roles for even positioning/passing options. Left both DM(s) w/out hold position and added dribble more on the BPD stopper roles.

Edited June 8 by Cloud9

[Novem9]

1 час назад, TheMartello сказал:

Can you post a screenshot of your updated tactic?

Sure, but tomorrow 

[Novem9]

15 часов назад, TheMartello сказал:

No player instructions?

Thanks!

I'm on the computer right now

No PIs

[Novem9]

Am I the only one with this paranoia that the more people know about the tactic, the faster it will become a loser? 

[skyzekaizo]

What about your sick 433 with a false nine formation?

Are you still working on it?

 

[Novem9]

12 часов назад, skyzekaizo сказал:

What about your sick 433 with a false nine formation?

Are you still working on it?

 

Hi! I couldn't get success with this. At least to the same extent as it was in FM22.

New system of fluid roles in FM24 is really good for 4231dm. 433 began to have a number of disadvantages. It’s hard for me to say for sure whether this is a flaw in the ME or tactical trends IRL. Since Guardiola himself changed own formation to #10 position, I dare to say that a new round of tactical evolution is underway. Which is definitely cyclical.

Do you have any progress with 433 in FM24?

[-Jef-]

On 06/06/2024 at 20:22, Novem9 said:

I have a good possession, but sometimes it's difficult to score a goals. Any tips about TIs or roles please?

As others have said you are lacking width by combination of roles and TI.

You need at least 2 naturally wide roles (FB, WB, CWB, W) or some other roles with PI (IW with stay wider, WM stay wider) to stretch the field as far as possible to have space for pockets between defenders (channels and half spaces) and midfielders. See how Pep utilizes his wingers to stretch the pitch from line to line with Grealish, Doku, Bernardo... And then he has KDB, Foden, Haaland, even Gvardiol attack the spaces left between a fullback and nearest central midfielder and/or central defender.

Also, you can achieve this as well by having TI for width be as wide as possible and then still leave play through middle TI on because your players will stretch the pitch wide and then try and look for spaces in the middle where your strikers and midfielders are most dangerous.

 

Narrower, much shorter, play through middle and WBIB all make the pitch narrower than it needs to be.

 

Much shorter passing and WBIB are, IMO!, redundant options because you're not gonna punt the ball or make deep crosses with much shorter passing, are you? 

 

If you insist on having either I'd probably leave much shorter passing because you will still have crosses and cutbacks from wide areas if you remove WBIB but still retain that boring 3 yard passes that much shorter passing will provide to you.

 

I'd probably change right back to WB-S or FB-A if the player is more limited technically, left winger to W-S (seeing as Barcola is right footed he will naturally cut inside without the PI telling him to do that), remove WBIB and make your width higher (at least to standard/default width)

 

Rest looks fine

[skyzekaizo]

3 hours ago, Novem9 said:

Hi! I couldn't get success with this. At least to the same extent as it was in FM22.

New system of fluid roles in FM24 is really good for 4231dm. 433 began to have a number of disadvantages. It’s hard for me to say for sure whether this is a flaw in the ME or tactical trends IRL. Since Guardiola himself changed own formation to #10 position, I dare to say that a new round of tactical evolution is underway. Which is definitely cyclical.

Do you have any progress with 433 in FM24?

Nope, I think 4231 is just better at doing things in FM24, I have a mentality and technical monster in central midfield, but he somehow gets wrecked during away games, looses the ball, has hard time getting defense splitting passes and does not drop as deep as he should (even with adequate traits), while the other CM is definitely not as attacking as a SS-a or AM-a and therefore does not create enough space for my F9 to thrive in.

I think that the CM slot is quite one dimension in this ME, it's really good at giving options in the half space for deeper players and overall it creates a lot of chances when above the halfway line, but it definitely is weak when playing as a pivot.

This edition it feels like the double DM pivot is almost impossible to press, while the CM dropping to help build up is the guy to trigger the press on 9 times out of 10.

Given that, maybe it's actually smarter to have both CM occupy the channels and let the defensive third do the build up, I thought about using something like that:

SK-s

IFB-d L-s CD-d CWB-s

HB-d

MEZ-a BBM-s (or maybe RPM or CM)

W-s/a F9-s IF-a

This would secure a back three in possession, have another option to progress the ball from the back other than my BBM/RPM/CM, and create space for both my MEZ and my F9 to receive and ping balls to the IF or the winger.

I plan to use it this evening and see how it goes, as for the TI I'll use POOD, focus middle, low crosses, shorter passing and fairly narrow, counter press, high press, high def line.

I'll let you know if it is any good.