Steve Clarke's Mannschaft: We'll Be Coming!

[Jorg]

4 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

I think we're heading out. There's just nothing I can point to that gives me any hope. A combination of factors, from half-fit players to those who are missing altogether, to Clarke's insistence of trying to make a tactic work that doesn't have the right personnel, we're not really in with much of a shout of beating either of the remaining opponents. 

It does feel a bit like that unfortunately.  I think Clarke is probably a bit too set in his ways but I would love to be proved wrong on that.  I would be genuinely tempted to go four at the back and play Tierney at right back.  I can't see him changing it now though.

[eenie]

I watched all of the games over the weekend apart from the England match, and I honestly think we'd get well beaten by any of the sides involved. Depressing stuff.

[Jorg]

2 minutes ago, eenie said:

I watched all of the games over the weekend apart from the England match, and I honestly think we'd get well beaten by any of the sides involved. Depressing stuff.

Agreed.  Apart from Scotland I have thoroughly enjoyed watching the tournament!  

[StevehFC]

Should Clarke go if we finish bottom with 0 points? 

[metallimuse]

2 hours ago, Jorg said:

Apart from Scotland I have thoroughly enjoyed watching the tournament!  

Sadly I agree with this statement.

6 minutes ago, StevehFC said:

Should Clarke go if we finish bottom with 0 points? 

For me it would depend on the manner of the performances in the next 2 games.

Back to back qualification for the Euros is no small feat for us after years out in the cold. And let's not forget we were one of the first sides to book our ticket but aye, on the flip side we've been poor since.

Also, who would we get if Stevie went?

[Gee_Simpson]

4 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

Also, who would we get if Stevie went?

Moyes for me. 

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

15 minutes ago, StevehFC said:

Should Clarke go if we finish bottom with 0 points? 

Not there yet of course. Regardless, Clarke in relative terms is pretty much our Southgate, good record/results on paper which baffles outsiders as to why some fans want rid. Then when you watch the product on the pitch, you start to see why. I'd agree the greater issue is who replaces him more than anything, no Scottish manager comes to mind.

Edited June 17 by Obi-Wan Kenobi

[metallimuse]

6 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Moyes for me. 

Great shout tbf. Fantastic calibre but, is his style of football really gunna be any different to Clarke's? Wasn't that the reason a lot of West Ham fans wanted him out even though he gave them a trophy for the first time in decades?

[bermybhoy]

Can we defer this chat until we get pumped out at least? 

Clarke has bounced us back from poor results before and produced some really surprising results on the back of them. Appreciate we are obviously on a really poor run which doesn't give much hope of suddenly turning it around - but it's not like we've been on sustained good form for any great length of time while he's been in charge, except maybe those opening qualifiers. 

[skybluedave]

32 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

Great shout tbf. Fantastic calibre but, is his style of football really gunna be any different to Clarke's? Wasn't that the reason a lot of West Ham fans wanted him out even though he gave them a trophy for the first time in decades?

He did well in European cups though, which could crossover to international

[TM]

58 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

Great shout tbf. Fantastic calibre but, is his style of football really gunna be any different to Clarke's? Wasn't that the reason a lot of West Ham fans wanted him out even though he gave them a trophy for the first time in decades?

has Scotland ever had a swashbuckling style of play? I can't remember it in my lifetime maybe 70s when we had a decent team but not seen enough footage to know

with Brown and Roxburgh when we were getting to World Cups/Euros, we just had enough but weren't at the top level

Edited June 17 by TM

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, metallimuse said:

Great shout tbf. Fantastic calibre but, is his style of football really gunna be any different to Clarke's? Wasn't that the reason a lot of West Ham fans wanted him out even though he gave them a trophy for the first time in decades?

Yeah I was thinking that myself, but he's probably the most high profile, experienced Scottish manager we could go for.

[eenie]

Porteous, as expected, gets a two-match ban.

[bermybhoy]

38 minutes ago, eenie said:

Porteous, as expected, gets a two-match ban.

Despite a passionate appeal for leniency from the Hungarian officials. 

[gothenburg83]

52 minutes ago, bermybhoy said:

Despite a passionate appeal for leniency from the Hungarian officials. 

And Scotland fans asking or 2 years!

[Gary_Parker]

So all the fanparks in Cologne and surrounding area (Dusseldorf, Dortmund etc) closed today due to storms. Hasn't dampened the mood at Amy of the many bars surrounding the area. 

[Jorg]

Scotland at Euro 2024: Choose your starting XI for Switzerland match - BBC Sport

Ok, call me a maverick but it is time to ring the changes!  Clark in for Gunn.  Hendry and McKenna in a back four with Tierney moving to right back.  Hanley is too slow for a back four in my opinion.  Gilmour back into midfield to give us a bit of control with Tierney and Robertson getting forward from full back.  Shankland gets the nod up front with McGinn, McTominay and Christie encouraged to get a lot closer to him and even run beyond him.

I know Clarke will never go with that but no harm in having a bit of fun and I genuinely think that XI would do a lot better than Friday night!

[Hairycull]

To be honest I am not expecting any points now but let's hope the performances are better and we don't end up with the worst record at the Euros. I am fed up as a Celtic fan getting those sorts of records I  Europe.

if we are to get a result it will be down to our midfield because that's where we get our goals. That is difficult to achieve and easier to stop for the opposition. Keep it tight for the first 60 minutes and then bring on the likes of Forrest.

[Gary_Parker]

3 hours ago, Jorg said:

Scotland at Euro 2024: Choose your starting XI for Switzerland match - BBC Sport

Ok, call me a maverick but it is time to ring the changes!  Clark in for Gunn.  Hendry and McKenna in a back four with Tierney moving to right back.  Hanley is too slow for a back four in my opinion.  Gilmour back into midfield to give us a bit of control with Tierney and Robertson getting forward from full back.  Shankland gets the nod up front with McGinn, McTominay and Christie encouraged to get a lot closer to him and even run beyond him.

I know Clarke will never go with that but no harm in having a bit of fun and I genuinely think that XI would do a lot better than Friday night!

It does feel very Clarke like though, shoehorning players into unfamiliar positions. 

[Jorg]

7 minutes ago, Gary_Parker said:

It does feel very Clarke like though, shoehorning players into unfamiliar positions. 

That is fair.  My team would be more attacking though!  

[Gee_Simpson]

Tbh I would like to see an Adams and Shankland strike partnership. I think it would suit both players better at this level. Of course they aren't superstars, so I think as a 2 it would work better for us. 

Edited June 18 by Gee_Simpson

[metallimuse]

The beeb taking the absolute p*ss with that montage of Patrick Schick’s goal against us last time out at Euro 21 

[eenie]

7 hours ago, Jorg said:

Scotland at Euro 2024: Choose your starting XI for Switzerland match - BBC Sport

Ok, call me a maverick but it is time to ring the changes!  Clark in for Gunn.  Hendry and McKenna in a back four with Tierney moving to right back.  Hanley is too slow for a back four in my opinion.  Gilmour back into midfield to give us a bit of control with Tierney and Robertson getting forward from full back.  Shankland gets the nod up front with McGinn, McTominay and Christie encouraged to get a lot closer to him and even run beyond him.

I know Clarke will never go with that but no harm in having a bit of fun and I genuinely think that XI would do a lot better than Friday night!

Yuck

[Tikka Mezzala]

5-3-2 for me. 

[Gee_Simpson]

4 hours ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

5-3-2 for me. 

I was gonna say 3-5-2, but it can be the same really.

[Wavelberry]

2 up front has to be the shout. I'll be raging for the whole of Scotland if he goes one up top tonight.

[Sons FC]

46 minutes ago, Wavelberry said:

2 up front has to be the shout. I'll be raging for the whole of Scotland if he goes one up top tonight.

Totally agree. We need to play higher up the pitch and take the game to them. If we sit back we lose.

I'd rather we go out having a real go than sitting back and going out tamely.

[eenie]

37 minutes ago, Sons FC said:

Totally agree. We need to play higher up the pitch and take the game to them. If we sit back we lose.

I'd rather we go out having a real go than sitting back and going out tamely.

Aye, plus we don't have the quality to sit in and defend all game. I know the Czechs were pretty pish last night but we couldn't have defended en masse like they did for most of the game.

[Gee_Simpson]

10 hours ago, Sons FC said:

Totally agree. We need to play higher up the pitch and take the game to them. If we sit back we lose.

I'd rather we go out having a real go than sitting back and going out tamely.

Yeah I just want us to have a go. Every other team has played with freedom, we looked **** scared vs Germany and were so passive it was unreal. 

Edited June 19 by Gee_Simpson

[Gee_Simpson]

***** bag.

[Gee_Simpson]

What an assist from Ralston!

[Tikka Mezzala]

Happy with the point, but the scenes if McTominay had gotten to Robertson's header across the face of goal! That would have been the moment of the tournament! 

It's still hard to see where our goals are coming from. Our corners were barely beating the first man, so we weren't even that threatening at set plays. But the one thing we cannot afford to do on Sunday is give away stupid goals like the one we gave away tonight. Ralston's back pass was shocking, but the whole move was just disastrous. Was it Hanley that hits it at Gilmour erratically? If he just cushions the ball down to him like a competent footballer, we probably avoid the whole thing. Panic stations when there's no real pressure in that moment. So typical of us. 

The silver lining is that we are still in the running heading into the final match. 

[eenie]

5 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

Ralston's back pass was shocking, but the whole move was just disastrous. Was it Hanley that hits it at Gilmour erratically? If he just cushions the ball down to him like a competent footballer, we probably avoid the whole thing. Panic stations when there's no real pressure in that moment. So typical of us. 

There were two backpasses from Hendry earlier in the first half where he wasn't under real pressure but made an absolute horse's erse out of it: one where he half-volleyed it at Mach 6 about 10 yards past Gunn, and another similar one where he had time but sclaffed it far too hard again.

We don't have much ability on the ball at the back, but we still try to play it around and it's a really dangerous game.

[Hairycull]

13 minutes ago, eenie said:

There were two backpasses from Hendry earlier in the first half where he wasn't under real pressure but made an absolute horse's erse out of it: one where he half-volleyed it at Mach 6 about 10 yards past Gunn, and another similar one where he had time but sclaffed it far too hard again.

We don't have much ability on the ball at the back, but we still try to play it around and it's a really dangerous game.

I think 1 of those was Tierney.

[Sons FC]

That was so much better but there is still the fear element with some players and the inability to stay calm under pressure.

Knowing Scotland we either lose or draw with Hungary or win and find we are one goal short.

[Gary_Parker]

We'd have taken a point against what is a very efficient and effective Swiss side before the match, it means we know what we have to do in the last game. We created a few good chances, but not close to enough of them overall. Losing Tierney might be a blessing and perhaps force Clarke to change it up a bit. 

Too many nerves on show in the first half, got away with a few back passes, gifted them a goal with another, though in saying that, no one but Shaqiri scores from there. 

None of the offside goals were brought about by a solid defensive line, it was lucky but we got it in our favour.

Had we got a bit more luck with Hanley's header off the post or had someone, like a goal poaching style of striker, better anticipated Robertson's header across the 6 yard line, it could have been different.

Onwards to Sunday, Hungary aren't going to be easy, they've some very good players in there.

[Jorg]

A good point last night but it does feel like a missed opportunity.  Why did he wait so long until making changes?!  We do lack any kind of composure when it comes to keep the ball.  After the first two games the only players that look really comfortable at this level are Robertson, McGinn, McTominay and Gilmour which makes sense given where they play their club football.

I actually feel sorry for Ralston, he shouldn't really be playing but there is nobody else.  I thought he recovered well after his mistake but he was blowing after about 70 minutes, as were a couple of others.  I thought Shankland would have been there for the Robertson header but the more I watch him I'm not actually sure if he is that type of player.  He seems to like being outside the box more than I thought.

[Gee_Simpson]

12 hours ago, Jorg said:

I thought Shankland would have been there for the Robertson header but the more I watch him I'm not actually sure if he is that type of player.  He seems to like being outside the box more than I thought.

He's a much more rounded striker than people think. I thought when he joined us that we were getting a penalty box striker, but he is very good at holding the ball up and helping the team progress up the pitch. 

[eenie]

8 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

He's a much more rounded striker than people think. I thought when he joined us that we were getting a penalty box striker, but he is very good at holding the ball up and helping the team progress up the pitch. 

Yeah, he gets labelled as a poacher / box striker who doesn't do much other than put the ball in the net, but that's very unfair. He's good at dropping deep and linking the play, holding the ball up and general all-round play.

I actually think the biggest criticism you could level at him (at the top level) is what everyone says is his greatest strength: goals. But he still offers more than Adams in that respect!

[Gary_Parker]

He does offer more of a goal threat than Adams but I don't think he does half the work Adams does. Ideally we'd play them both, one feeding off the space the other creates. 

On another note, I think when I fly home I'm going to open a kilt cleaning business, I'd be a rich man after seeing all these guys in their kilts every day, spilling beer down themselves etc. 

[bermybhoy]

On 20/06/2024 at 11:25, Jorg said:

A good point last night but it does feel like a missed opportunity.  Why did he wait so long until making changes?!  We do lack any kind of composure when it comes to keep the ball.  After the first two games the only players that look really comfortable at this level are Robertson, McGinn, McTominay and Gilmour which makes sense given where they play their club football.

I actually feel sorry for Ralston, he shouldn't really be playing but there is nobody else.  I thought he recovered well after his mistake but he was blowing after about 70 minutes, as were a couple of others.  I thought Shankland would have been there for the Robertson header but the more I watch him I'm not actually sure if he is that type of player.  He seems to like being outside the box more than I thought.

I like how you can't bring yourself to admit McGregor is also clearly absolutely comfortable at that level. 

He's generally picked out to be tightly marked to stop us building from deep, Switzerland game him much more space than he typically gets and I thought he was much more effective, especially with Gilmour beside him, whereas he was really isolated against Germany. 

Ralston, agreed. He's our back up and hasn't played much. He actually did OK when he had more game time as an inverted full back under Ange, but he's never a wing back. You can see when he gets the ball he looks forward and realises HE is meant to be providing the width so there's no one ahead of him, so ends up turning inside or back. 

[eenie]

One thing I will say for Ralston is that he's capable of putting in a really good ball. But that's moot if he's never getting beyond the halfway line.

[bermybhoy]

12 minutes ago, eenie said:

One thing I will say for Ralston is that he's capable of putting in a really good ball. But that's moot if he's never getting beyond the halfway line.

Yeah, he got more space to get forward late in the game when we had them pressed back and put a couple of decent balls in. Just as capable of completely shanking it for miles, think there was one cross picked up by Robertson at the other corner flag. 

[Jorg]

2 hours ago, bermybhoy said:

I like how you can't bring yourself to admit McGregor is also clearly absolutely comfortable at that level. 

He's generally picked out to be tightly marked to stop us building from deep, Switzerland game him much more space than he typically gets and I thought he was much more effective, especially with Gilmour beside him, whereas he was really isolated against Germany. 

Ralston, agreed. He's our back up and hasn't played much. He actually did OK when he had more game time as an inverted full back under Ange, but he's never a wing back. You can see when he gets the ball he looks forward and realises HE is meant to be providing the width so there's no one ahead of him, so ends up turning inside or back. 

I was talking about the first two games and McGregor hasn't been comfortable in my opinion.  He was really poor against Germany and marginally better against Switzerland.  He is a good player but he hasn't really shown yet in this tournament.

[eenie]

I think he was fine against Switzerland. Everyone was pish v Germany.

[Gary_Parker]

McGregor is fine at this level but when you have him and Gilmour together, you don't get much in the way of a consistent drive from deep. Both prefer sitting that bit deeper and picking out a pass. 

I really want us to stop shoehorning players into roles and positions that don't suit them. 

[eenie]

5 minutes ago, Gary_Parker said:

I really want us to stop shoehorning players into roles and positions that don't suit them. 

Need to send half the team home then

[Sned]

I don't think McGregor has reached the level of 'good', in fairness to Jorg. He's also had a tough season where he hasn't been particularly great, and seemed to have a season ending injury a couple of months ago that he did really well to come back from and see out the domestic campaign.

Whether it's due to the season just gone, or a sign of his level in general, I don't think he looks anywhere near as sharp as he did a few seasons ago. He's never been the quickest player, but more and more now when I watch him I worry that he's more easily bypassed and beaten in duels than before.

He still covers a lot of ground, and is at his best and comfortable when plenty of passes are going through him, but he's another player I worry has been overplayed in his career so far and runs the risk of breaking down before his time. Hopefully less noticeable (at least domestically) in the holding midfield role, but I also think he'd look better for Scotland if the midfield was a narrower 3 with Gilmour and McGinn beside him with plenty of energy.

[StevehFC]

Starting to get a little nervous for Sunday night. We won’t get a better chance to qualify for the next round and make history. I just hope we don’t set up to play defensive. 

[Tikka Mezzala]

Kinda mental that we've scored more goals at this tournament than France have after two games.  

We've barely had a shot on goal. In fact, other teams have done the scoring for us. Talk about efficiency! If only we could defend!