is this tactic unrealistically good?

[flauta kicma]

Hello.

I'm doing very well. I won the Champions League with Vigo in the fourth season, the Dutch title with Twente in the second season... This is the team with which I won the Champions League.

I used the basic postulates from FM Arena. I didn't downloaded the whole tactics, I just saw the basics. And that is - to play with FB on attack, AM on attack, .. But unlike FM Arena - my left wing is an ordinary W, not IF, there are some other team instructions, I don't play with both DM's etc. 

It seems to me that all this postulates didn't work so well on the previous patch, as if all this works only on this patch...

Now... can this tactic be considered unrealistically good? Are there any directions, principles (I don't mean literally tactics) with which the results would be more realistic, or is it simply all on this path that I used here?

Do some of you have same impression that it is bit easier after last patch?

[lied90]

59 minutes ago, flauta kicma said:

Hello.

I'm doing very well. I won the Champions League with Vigo in the fourth season, the Dutch title with Twente in the second season... This is the team with which I won the Champions League.

I used the basic postulates from FM Arena. I didn't downloaded the whole tactics, I just saw the basics. And that is - to play with FB on attack, AM on attack, .. But unlike FM Arena - my left wing is an ordinary W, not IF, there are some other team instructions, I don't play with both DM's etc. 

It seems to me that all this postulates didn't work so well on the previous patch, as if all this works only on this patch...

Now... can this tactic be considered unrealistically good? Are there any directions, principles (I don't mean literally tactics) with which the results would be more realistic, or is it simply all on this path that I used here?

Do some of you have same impression that it is bit easier after last patch?

I don't understand why you ask here.

Your tactic is in essence the same as any FM Arena tactic because of the team instructions. So if you want to know how this worked for previous patches, just look at how similar tactics scored on FM arena. Each patch have their own table.

Is it unrealistically good? Of course it is, the whole purpose of FM arena tactic testing is to find the optimal plug n play tactic, so if you copy their tactics then the results will be beyond good.

[crusadertsar]

You won with a plug and play exploit tactic and then asking is the tactic "unrealisticly good"? You are joking right?

[flauta kicma]

ok. I am not trying to exploit game. Only trying to find approach that is satisfying for me as a player (who doesnt have much time) but still challenging. That is why I havent downloaded tactic, only tried to implement some principles like FB instructions etc..

I dont have anything against plug and play, but if it will bring me UCL in 8th, not 4th season.

this was looking nice because shape isnt unrealistic, it isnt some stupid assymetric foundation, I havent implement everything.. but still I dont want to win it all in fourth season.

So your advice would be not to look on FM Arena page?

My initial question was - is it easy in general or easiness comes from type of tactic.. But ok, I get it

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, flauta kicma said:

ok. I am not trying to exploit game. Only trying to find approach that is satisfying for me as a player (who doesnt have much time) but still challenging. That is why I havent downloaded tactic, only tried to implement some principles like FB instructions etc..

I dont have anything against plug and play, but if it will bring me UCL in 8th, not 4th season.

this was looking nice because shape isnt unrealistic, it isnt some stupid assymetric foundation, I havent implement everything.. but still I dont want to win it all in fourth season.

So your advice would be not to look on FM Arena page?

My initial question was - is it easy in general or easiness comes from type of tactic.. But ok, I get it

Look to create an overpowered tactic you don't need to waste time on places like FM Arena. Just try to think logically about what would create a good attacking movement and which roles you want to attack and defend. All of those instructions in your tactic are overkill, you barely need to use any instructions in this year's FM. What really matters is the shape and roles and positional play. Look I created 4-2-3-1 DM recently which got me an easy treble in the 1st year upon starting with a new team (Milan in 2031 so not even the original squad anymore but mostly newgen kids). 

I think the key to a good 4231 is in utilizing the shape to move the ball vertically and decisively. This means having a good mix of roles in the 4 attackers (balance of attack and defend duties), strong double pivot in DM position. And two positive fullbacks (I prefer FB(a) and WB(s) combo). Then the rest is a just a few instructions to fine tune your tactic and to make sure that your keeper channels the ball to your CBs and doesn't just waste possession by kicking it forward. Higher tempo helps any tactic. And your defence needs to be relatively aggressive but compact without going into gegenpress territory. Let's face it, noone will be winning Champions League in FM24 by playing lowblock passive-defense football. Not against the likes of Man City, Barcelona and Real Madrid.

You can read about my tactic above. Again it shows that if you just set it up simple and logical, you can succeed very easily in the game, no need to copy exploits from a plug and play site.

Edited June 25 by crusadertsar

[warlock]

42 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

You can read about my tactic above

Absolute gold, that thread. It completely changed the way I play FM 

[Falahk]

The tactic in the op is very similar to how I would set up a 4-2-3-1 in the pre positional play me's, many of the settings are surprisingly logical for a plug and play tactic 

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Falahk said:

The tactic in the op is very similar to how I would set up a 4-2-3-1 in the pre positional play me's, many of the settings are surprisingly logical for a plug and play tactic 

Sure some are logical but then you see the ones that make no sense together like "shorter passing" and "pass into space". Might as well just turn them off and select "be more expressive" or just select a higher team mentality and you will get the same effect. Just unnecessary. But plug and play tactics select every single option just because.

Edited June 25 by crusadertsar

[Falahk]

26 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Sure some are logical but then you see the ones that make no sense together like "shorter passing" and "pass into space". Might as well just turn them off and select "be more expressive" or just select a higher team mentality and you will get the same effect. Just unnecessary. But plug and play tactics select every single option just because.

True to a degree, since the op mentioned that the original tactic had two if's, it make little sense to play narrow in attack since the roles selected already do that, likewise, with the am on attack, play will naturally be funnelled down the flanks due to a lack of central passing options, making the focus play instructions redundant 

[lied90]

15 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Sure some are logical but then you see the ones that make no sense together like "shorter passing" and "pass into space". Might as well just turn them off and select "be more expressive" or just select a higher team mentality and you will get the same effect. Just unnecessary. But plug and play tactics select every single option just because.

This is not true. 

Almost every single combination of TIs have been tested on FMarena over thousands of simulations. It's simple brute force testing, but the TIs are not chosen "just because". It's chosen because over thousands of tests, it gives the best results. Which is totally fine if you want to know what works, rather than how it works.

[flauta kicma]

19 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Look to create an overpowered tactic you don't need to waste time on places like FM Arena. Just try to think logically about what would create a good attacking movement and which roles you want to attack and defend. All of those instructions in your tactic are overkill, you barely need to use any instructions in this year's FM. What really matters is the shape and roles and positional play. Look I created 4-2-3-1 DM recently which got me an easy treble in the 1st year upon starting with a new team (Milan in 2031 so not even the original squad anymore but mostly newgen kids). 

I think the key to a good 4231 is in utilizing the shape to move the ball vertically and decisively. This means having a good mix of roles in the 4 attackers (balance of attack and defend duties), strong double pivot in DM position. And two positive fullbacks (I prefer FB(a) and WB(s) combo). Then the rest is a just a few instructions to fine tune your tactic and to make sure that your keeper channels the ball to your CBs and doesn't just waste possession by kicking it forward. Higher tempo helps any tactic. And your defence needs to be relatively aggressive but compact without going into gegenpress territory. Let's face it, noone will be winning Champions League in FM24 by playing lowblock passive-defense football. Not against the likes of Man City, Barcelona and Real Madrid.

You can read about my tactic above. Again it shows that if you just set it up simple and logical, you can succeed very easily in the game, no need to copy exploits from a plug and play site.

Thanks for the contribution.

It bothers me that the tactics at FM Arena are logical. It's not an asymmetric setup, there aren't 7 players on the attack, etc. And if I were to put together a gegenpres tactic, I would go in that direction...

Here I put together a new tactic, which has some new differences from the tactics at the FM Arena, the results are again similar, quite successful. I went to save and load and finished the season with this new tactic. 

This is not much different from the tactics I used on FM 23. 

That's why I asked if it's a cheat tactic that I use, because I would have come to those logical foundations myself. That way, it doesn't seem like a cheat to me, but then again, I don't want results that are unrealistic. And now it's hard to ignore these principles that I picked up at FM Arena...
 

[El Payaso]

I wouldn't say they are logical even though you are not using an asymmetric formation. 

I've never been a fan of asymmetric formations as in my opinion those give human players unfair advantage and based on what I've seen, the AI is not usually able to deal against them. I also believe that the AI never uses those, so SI should chop that option from human players too. 

In my opinion there are way too many team instructions which makes the whole system a bit too Micro-managerial to my liking. 

Also you need to take into account that there has been a lot of talk for years about high pressing systems being too effective. Your tactic is practically as aggressive as it could be with the current setup.

I have never used high press on FM 24 or the previous ones so I don't know how they work in practice but based on the general feedback, high press seems to trigger something that the AI is not able to deal against. 

And before anyone comments about gegenpressing only being easier to setup: if simply activating high press results in unrealistically goof results, then it is a thing that is not well balanced. Obviously it is possible to play successfully in other styles too, but none of those have this kind of overachieving button available. 

If you are looking for a realistic gameplay and a challenge, I would suggest reverting to a mid- or low-block system with a relatively low intensity. You are probably going to overachieve with that approach too but not as heavily as you currently are. 

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, flauta kicma said:

Thanks for the contribution.

It bothers me that the tactics at FM Arena are logical. It's not an asymmetric setup, there aren't 7 players on the attack, etc. And if I were to put together a gegenpres tactic, I would go in that direction...

Here I put together a new tactic, which has some new differences from the tactics at the FM Arena, the results are again similar, quite successful. I went to save and load and finished the season with this new tactic. 

This is not much different from the tactics I used on FM 23. 

That's why I asked if it's a cheat tactic that I use, because I would have come to those logical foundations myself. That way, it doesn't seem like a cheat to me, but then again, I don't want results that are unrealistic. And now it's hard to ignore these principles that I picked up at FM Arena...
 

If you were not looking for "cheat" tactics then why even look at FM Arena, a site which is basically known for that? Just make your own tactics and be happy with the results mate.

[lied90]

 

2 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

That's why I asked if it's a cheat tactic that I use, because I would have come to those logical foundations myself. That way, it doesn't seem like a cheat to me, but then again, I don't want results that are unrealistic. And now it's hard to ignore these principles that I picked up at FM Arena...

There is no such thing as a cheat tactic in FM24.

Using a tactic that performs well isn't a cheat simply because it wins you a lot of matches, even if it's not "logical". It would have to exploit a bug or glitch, and as far as I know there are no major bugs in the ME that makes you win games.

If you could make the opposing teams GK move out of goal by using 3 liberos combined with 3 false nines and give them a PI to man mark the GK, than that would be a cheat tactic, FM has nothing like that to my knowledge, it just has balance issues.

[yonko]

On 25/06/2024 at 05:12, crusadertsar said:

You won with a plug and play exploit tactic and then asking is the tactic "unrealisticly good"? You are joking right?

Why is it an exploit tactic? 

[Cloud9]

29 minutes ago, yonko said:

Why is it an exploit tactic? 

It's from a website that creates plug and play tactics.

Whether you want to call them exploits or cheats it doesn't really matter, the result is the same. You're relying on a tactic that works due to the limitations of the AI or ME (unrealistic overloads/forward runners, asymmetrical tactics, striker less formations etc.).

In the case of this tactic, you're brute forcing the AI w/tons of tactical instructions instead of TIs that work together to create a systematic high press. You can set up a high press w/out running into these exploitation issues...but I would recommend avoiding these websites altogether and "meta" discussions.

Ultimately the tactical form is for creating styles of play, not about churning out 100 point+ seasons and bags full of trophies. If you can achieve success alongside a style of play, that's a bonus

On 25/06/2024 at 02:01, flauta kicma said:

Do some of you have same impression that it is bit easier after last patch?

 

The last patch did not see any match engine changes. Your players are more than good enough to win the Champions League so in this sense it's not "unrealistic," but the tactic you're setting up is designed to over performed at the expense of realism or actual tactical ideals. 

Edited June 26 by Cloud9

[crusadertsar]

45 minutes ago, yonko said:

Why is it an exploit tactic? 

It's a tactic he found on FM Arena. What is there more to say? That site is known for basically running endless simulations with each and every tactical instruction to see if it makes it more likely for you to beat the AI. Testing by numbers, min-maxing munchkin method, whatever you want to call it. And then just put those instructions into the tactic just because they are the "most optimal" according to their tests that is. Not because those instructions make sense to the team and players you choose from or from perspective of choosing them to recreate a specific style and then tweaking the tactic naturally by watching the results.

Edited June 26 by crusadertsar

[dzek]

I've been playing the game for a long time and the last time I remember ME having a "problem" with some kind of tactics was in FM18 with the 3 strikers. I remember winning the CL in my very first season with my home team (Anorthosis Famagusta) beating big teams like Real Madrid, Inter etc. just for fun.

After FM18 there was nothing in ME that was considered a hole in the game system.

Regarding the particular discussion you've developed here, I would like to say that there are several ways to play the game and that's a very good thing. That's what other games do as well and that's one of the reasons why they might succeed in their industry.

One approach is to build a tactic around the available players your team has. Another approach is to create real-life tactics in the game and another approach is to create tactics that you want your team to play regardless of the ability of your players and try to adapt them to it.

As a user of the game I've always been the last approach because I'm the boss.

Those who have been wronged for many, many years in the game are those who don't know football very well but would like to learn. I was one of them in my first steps and I had to search through forums, discussions and the internet in general to find answers. In this respect the game has failed miserably and there are many examples. I hope for FM25 things will change but sometimes you have to keep a low profile. I know that with the engine change in general the graphics and the UI/UX in general will be much improved but I hope more on the essence of the functions and not on the design.

Finally I want to say that these game practices encourage one to the point of looking for Plug & Play tactics. I don't want to disagree with anyone and I don't want to agree. I respect your opinion and your choices for your own, personal entertainment.

Thanks for reading! 

[yonko]

11 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

It's from a website that creates plug and play tactics.

Whether you want to call them exploits or cheats it doesn't really matter, the result is the same. You're relying on a tactic that works due to the limitations of the AI or ME (unrealistic overloads/forward runners, asymmetrical tactics, striker less formations etc.).

In the case of this tactic, you're brute forcing the AI w/tons of tactical instructions instead of TIs that work together to create a systematic high press. You can set up a high press w/out running into these exploitation issues...but I would recommend avoiding these websites altogether and "meta" discussions.

Ultimately the tactical form is for creating styles of play, not about churning out 100 point+ seasons and bags full of trophies. If you can achieve success alongside a style of play, that's a bonus

 

10 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

It's a tactic he found on FM Arena. What is there more to say? That site is known for basically running endless simulations with each and every tactical instruction to see if it makes it more likely for you to beat the AI. Testing by numbers, min-maxing munchkin method, whatever you want to call it. And then just put those instructions into the tactic just because they are the "most optimal" according to their tests that is. Not because those instructions make sense to the team and players you choose from or from perspective of choosing them to recreate a specific style and then tweaking the tactic naturally by watching the results.

But what exactly about the instructions and player roles is the exploit here? I think it would be better to break it down rather than just condemn it as exploit tactic. So what if someone uses too many TIs? Or creates overloads to take advantage of weakness? We all have our methods of arriving at a tactic that beats the AI to win games. So in a way I think we are all exploiting the game, more or less. 

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, yonko said:

 

But what exactly about the instructions and player roles is the exploit here? I think it would be better to break it down rather than just condemn it as exploit tactic. So what if someone uses too many TIs? Or creates overloads to take advantage of weakness? We all have our methods of arriving at a tactic that beats the AI to win games. So in a way I think we are all exploiting the game, more or less. 

I think everyone has already done that in the replies. To reiterate: 

1. From FM arena, which makes it by nature a plug and play 
2. Tactical setup designed to overload or brute-force AI/ME in ways it struggles to deal with, not create a style of play
   1. As @crusadertsar mentions above, there is not a fluidity or cohesive plan from the TIs and several are contradicting. It is simply an attempt to flood the AI w/ things it won't be able to handle. 
3. The tactical forums are for creating style of plays, not plug and plays 

And you can play however you like, if you want to run plug and plays that is totally up to you  Fundamentally the intent of the tactic above is not to play the game, but to break it..and changing a few roles doesn't alter that. If you are tinkering around on your own in creating a style of play and find something you like, I would encourage you not to care if it's busted or not. However, that's entirely different than trying to find meta approaches or intentionally setting up in ways that the AI will struggle to deal with. 

• Creating overloads is fundamentally different from overloading the AI.

This forum can help you in creating a style of play. If you enjoy running a high pressing gegenpress and are looking to optimize the system...that's a completely different situation than the tactic above which is pulled from a plug and play site.

• I've been putting together a few high pressing systems on my own time as I watch the Euro's progress. Southgate's negative tactics have put a sour taste in my mouth for the defensive blocks at the moment. I've been particularly interested in Nagelsmann's (one of the only real coaches at the Euros) entirely vertical approach that features no natural width at all. In FM terms these approaches can be quite easy to pull off, so I've been trying to utilize vertical high presses + multiple pressing traps and minimalist TIs to avoid a simplistic and overturned approach. 
• Bielsa's Uruguay team (a reminder that Copa America is on as well) deploys its unique and charismatic, almost suicidal approaches to matches. This may be another style to take a look at and try to emulate if you're looking to run a frantic high press. 

Edited June 27 by Cloud9

[lied90]

15 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Whether you want to call them exploits or cheats it doesn't really matter, the result is the same. You're relying on a tactic that works due to the limitations of the AI or ME (unrealistic overloads/forward runners, asymmetrical tactics, striker less formations etc.).

Most of the top FMarena tactics don't really have crazy asymetric formations, three strikers, insane overloads, everyone on attack duty etc. It's mostly just 4222's and 4231's with maximum pressing, short passing, high tempo and balanced mentality, spiced with TIs that are objectively very effective regardless of playstyle. One example being how low crosses results in more goals, even with a archetype target forward (was an example of this done with Matt Smith in a thread I can't remember)

It's really not much different from  preset gegenpress, which I think is the point of the threadstarter(?), that he feels like he is cheating even if he is using a tactic that feels fairly normal.  

Of course as others have said, if playing like this makes the game less fun, than find a different way to create a tactic. 

[crusadertsar]

7 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I think everyone has already done that in the replies. To reiterate: 

1. From FM arena, which makes it by nature a plug and play 
2. Tactical setup designed to overload or brute-force AI/ME in ways it struggles to deal with, not create a style of play
   1. As @crusadertsar mentions above, there is not a fluidity or cohesive plan from the TIs and several are contradicting. It is simply an attempt to flood the AI w/ things it won't be able to handle. 
3. The tactical forums are for creating style of plays, not plug and plays 

And you can play however you like, if you want to run plug and plays that is totally up to you  Fundamentally the intent of the tactic above is not to play the game, but to break it..and changing a few roles doesn't alter that. If you are tinkering around on your own in creating a style of play and find something you like, I would encourage you not to care if it's busted or not. However, that's entirely different than trying to find meta approaches or intentionally setting up in ways that the AI will struggle to deal with. 

• Creating overloads is fundamentally different from overloading the AI.

This forum can help you in creating a style of play. If you enjoy running a high pressing gegenpress and are looking to optimize the system...that's a completely different situation than the tactic above which is pulled from a plug and play site.

• I've been putting together a few high pressing systems on my own time as I watch the Euro's progress. Southgate's negative tactics have put a sour taste in my mouth for the defensive blocks at the moment. I've been particularly interested in Nagelsmann's (one of the only real coaches at the Euros) entirely vertical approach that features no natural width at all. In FM terms these approaches can be quite easy to pull off, so I've been trying to utilize vertical high presses + multiple pressing traps and minimalist TIs to avoid a simplistic and overturned approach. 
• Bielsa's Uruguay team (a reminder that Copa America is on as well) deploys its unique and charismatic, almost suicidal approaches to matches. This may be another style to take a look at and try to emulate if you're looking to run a frantic high press. 

Couldn't have said it better myself 

[sejo]

11 ore fa, Cloud9 ha scritto:

• I've been putting together a few high pressing systems on my own time as I watch the Euro's progress. Southgate's negative tactics have put a sour taste in my mouth for the defensive blocks at the moment. I've been particularly interested in Nagelsmann's (one of the only real coaches at the Euros) entirely vertical approach that features no natural width at all. In FM terms these approaches can be quite easy to pull off, so I've been trying to utilize vertical high presses + multiple pressing traps and minimalist TIs to avoid a simplistic and overturned approach. 

Curious about that mate

[sybats]

On 25/06/2024 at 10:01, flauta kicma said:

Hello.

I'm doing very well. I won the Champions League with Vigo in the fourth season, the Dutch title with Twente in the second season... This is the team with which I won the Champions League.

I used the basic postulates from FM Arena. I didn't downloaded the whole tactics, I just saw the basics. And that is - to play with FB on attack, AM on attack, .. But unlike FM Arena - my left wing is an ordinary W, not IF, there are some other team instructions, I don't play with both DM's etc. 

It seems to me that all this postulates didn't work so well on the previous patch, as if all this works only on this patch...

Now... can this tactic be considered unrealistically good? Are there any directions, principles (I don't mean literally tactics) with which the results would be more realistic, or is it simply all on this path that I used here?

Do some of you have same impression that it is bit easier after last patch?

Would like to try this in my online save do you use any player instructions please?

[yonko]

20 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I think everyone has already done that in the replies. To reiterate: 

1. From FM arena, which makes it by nature a plug and play 
2. Tactical setup designed to overload or brute-force AI/ME in ways it struggles to deal with, not create a style of play
   1. As @crusadertsar mentions above, there is not a fluidity or cohesive plan from the TIs and several are contradicting. It is simply an attempt to flood the AI w/ things it won't be able to handle. 
3. The tactical forums are for creating style of plays, not plug and plays 

And you can play however you like, if you want to run plug and plays that is totally up to you  Fundamentally the intent of the tactic above is not to play the game, but to break it..and changing a few roles doesn't alter that. If you are tinkering around on your own in creating a style of play and find something you like, I would encourage you not to care if it's busted or not. However, that's entirely different than trying to find meta approaches or intentionally setting up in ways that the AI will struggle to deal with. 

• Creating overloads is fundamentally different from overloading the AI.

This forum can help you in creating a style of play. If you enjoy running a high pressing gegenpress and are looking to optimize the system...that's a completely different situation than the tactic above which is pulled from a plug and play site.

• I've been putting together a few high pressing systems on my own time as I watch the Euro's progress. Southgate's negative tactics have put a sour taste in my mouth for the defensive blocks at the moment. I've been particularly interested in Nagelsmann's (one of the only real coaches at the Euros) entirely vertical approach that features no natural width at all. In FM terms these approaches can be quite easy to pull off, so I've been trying to utilize vertical high presses + multiple pressing traps and minimalist TIs to avoid a simplistic and overturned approach. 
• Bielsa's Uruguay team (a reminder that Copa America is on as well) deploys its unique and charismatic, almost suicidal approaches to matches. This may be another style to take a look at and try to emulate if you're looking to run a frantic high press. 

Who decides what the Tactics Forum is for? I've been around for many years and FM editions. There is room for both, tactical discussions and tactic downloads. 

My question is exactly what specifically exploits the AI/ME in terms of instructions and roles? Which instructions are contradicting and what is flooding the AI? What is breaking the game and what does it mean? This is the discussion section. So let's discuss specifics rather than condemn, dismiss and look down upon. 

Even if one is creating his own tactic, you are still using a set of roles and instructions to find a way to win games vs AI, exploit weaknesses, etc. I find it funny that some people who create their own tactics pretend to be on some higher ground to condemn plug and play tactics or dismiss them without actually providing specifics. We are all using the tools provided in the game. The AI isn't trying to replicate real life tactics like we are. So in a way that can also be considered exploiting an AI weakness. We have FM gurus who know how the AI/ME code is built and offer advices, make videos, etc. All good btw. But isn't that also exploit? I'd argue that knowing inside info like this is more of an exploit actually than experimenting with a bunch of instructions and founding out what works. 

For the record, I've played every FM and even CM edition going back to CM'93 Italia on floppy disk. I've never used plug and play tactics and have always created my own. 

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, yonko said:

Who decides what the Tactics Forum is for? I've been around for many years and FM editions. There is room for both, tactical discussions and tactic downloads. 

My question is exactly what specifically exploits the AI/ME in terms of instructions and roles? Which instructions are contradicting and what is flooding the AI? What is breaking the game and what does it mean? This is the discussion section. So let's discuss specifics rather than condemn, dismiss and look down upon. 

Even if one is creating his own tactic, you are still using a set of roles and instructions to find a way to win games vs AI, exploit weaknesses, etc. I find it funny that some people who create their own tactics pretend to be on some higher ground to condemn plug and play tactics or dismiss them without actually providing specifics. We are all using the tools provided in the game. The AI isn't trying to replicate real life tactics like we are. So in a way that can also be considered exploiting an AI weakness. We have FM gurus who know how the AI/ME code is built and offer advices, make videos, etc. All good btw. But isn't that also exploit? I'd argue that knowing inside info like this is more of an exploit actually than experimenting with a bunch of instructions and founding out what works. 

For the record, I've played every FM and even CM edition going back to CM'93 Italia on floppy disk. I've never used plug and play tactics and have always created my own. 

lol, it's literally the first thing you read when you open the page. Similarly you can read the responses above and they will give you the specific examples for what you're asking. 

No one is asked about anyone playing plug and plays or not and everyone's been quite polite actually. This section simply does not do plug and plays...you can go over here though and they'll walk you through it: 

https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/forum/67-tactics-sharing-centre-uploaddownload/

The poster wanted to know if the plug and play that they download was overturned and the answer is yes, discussing it any further is frankly incredibly dull. 

11 hours ago, sejo said:

Curious about that mate

I'll share if I get some time to put an actual write up together, player profiles/traps would require some extra going into I think. I need to actually play the system more too  sitting in about match week 5 so far and it's got a few rickets in it still. 

I wanted to try something different than the typical 4-2-3-1 style you'd see in a vertical Nagelsmann style so I went w/ a 5 at the back actually...although the wingbacks just sit deep and force the opposition centrally. I also wanted to maximize my passing options when building up from the back as I'm using Play out from Defence rain or shine. 

When building up from the back...you can see both wingbacks all the way at the touchline, but they won't go forward (although sometimes they go off on an adventure anyways). In possession they primarily just participate in this buildup phase (so we have no natural width like a Nagelsman system once we progress through the lines).

You can then see how the play is designed to progress up the pitch w/Sardella (Libero(s)) as the main outlet. Notice how narrow/central the other 8 players are on the pitch and the space given to the two players in front of Sardella.

Edited June 28 by Cloud9

[El Payaso]

6 hours ago, yonko said:

My question is exactly what specifically exploits the AI/ME in terms of instructions and roles? Which instructions are contradicting and what is flooding the AI? What is breaking the game and what does it mean? This is the discussion section. So let's discuss specifics rather than condemn, dismiss and look down upon. 

Even if one is creating his own tactic, you are still using a set of roles and instructions to find a way to win games vs AI, exploit weaknesses, etc. I find it funny that some people who create their own tactics pretend to be on some higher ground to condemn plug and play tactics or dismiss them without actually providing specifics. We are all using the tools provided in the game. The AI isn't trying to replicate real life tactics like we are. So in a way that can also be considered exploiting an AI weakness. We have FM gurus who know how the AI/ME code is built and offer advices, make videos, etc. All good btw. But isn't that also exploit? I'd argue that knowing inside info like this is more of an exploit actually than experimenting with a bunch of instructions and founding out what works. 

For the record, I've played every FM and even CM edition going back to CM'93 Italia on floppy disk. I've never used plug and play tactics and have always created my own. 

The tactics that exploit the ME and weaknesses of the AI always seem to include the same pattern which is that people tick practically every possible team instruction possible and even take this further with player and opposition instructions. And these seem to be the way that the AI is not able to deal against, even though the style itself doesn't make much sense at all. 

How these kind of "tactical approaches" should work is that your team should be all over the place and they should simply get you sacked in no time as you are practically doing everything wrong in terms of approach. But in reality it is quite the opposite. 

I know both SI and many users have said it many times that the game doesn't have a bias towards human players but I strongly disagree on this based on my own experience. I doubt that the AI would be able to get away with such mindless approaches. 

I would also claim that the lack of winning the ball back and counter efficiently lack in the match engine and this plays a part. You can thereby get away with really top heavy tactics. You might concede a lot of goals but are sadly able to score even more. Something like André Villas-Boas at Chelsea (playing adventurous football and high line with slow defenders and fail miserably) sadly doesn't really happen on FM. 

I don't create my tactics to beat the AI but to instead achieve something specific in terms of style. For example with Palermo I was looking to create a style around some traditional Italian player roles while at Torino I am trying to master the low-block and counter attacking style of football. Neither of these have brought me a single virtual trophy which don't matter to me at all as I enjoy more having somewhat realistic simulation instead of huge overachieving. 

I don't find creating your own style of plays anything to brag about as in my opinion SI have simplified the whole process way too much already. But then on the other hand I don't understand the want to win trophies and overachieve either as this is not the general idea of the game which is to simulate a career of a football manager instead of watching a movie where everything comes together for the hero. 

Edited June 28 by El Payaso

[flauta kicma]

Now I started with Torino. I'm using 4231 again, but with much different rolls than on the FM Arena (altough with Celta I didnt downloaded tactic, it was maybe 70% similiar to Arena, now maybe 30%). There are different roles on full backs, one midfielder, a winger... If we don't count the centre backs and the goalkeeper, only three positions are the same as in the Arena. Team instructions are almost default Gegen, I would say that with an average team I have very good results again.

It remains to be played much more hours for some wise conclusion, but it seems to me that on first sight this is a possible proof that the tactics from FM Arena are not so powerful. Simply, any meaningful Gegenpress is able to achieve results...
 

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

Possible proof that the tactics from FM Arena are not so powerful. Simply, any meaningful Gegenpress is able to achieve results...

Gegenpress is an effective strategy in game and IRL. You will be able to overachieve with any cohesive, well put together tactic whether that is a counter-attack, gegenpress, or style built to control possession. 

Plug and plays operate differently, in that they are designed to win at the expense of the games limitations. Tactics from FM Arena do this by their very nature.

Edited Wednesday at 04:17 by Cloud9

[bahmet]

В 25.06.2024 в 12:01, flauta kicma сказал:

I won the Champions League with Vigo in the fourth season

How did you buy this squad in season 4 for Celta?

[flauta kicma]

On 03/07/2024 at 17:39, bahmet said:

How did you buy this squad in season 4 for Celta?

Smart budgeting.

[flauta kicma]

On 03/07/2024 at 02:22, Cloud9 said:

Gegenpress is an effective strategy in game and IRL. You will be able to overachieve with any cohesive, well put together tactic whether that is a counter-attack, gegenpress, or style built to control possession. 

Plug and plays operate differently, in that they are designed to win at the expense of the games limitations. Tactics from FM Arena do this by their very nature.

 

On 25/06/2024 at 12:12, crusadertsar said:

You won with a plug and play exploit tactic and then asking is the tactic "unrealisticly good"? You are joking right?

 

Ok.... Now I won Serie A in first season with this tactic that I made following logical principles. No player instructions.

There is nothing familiar from FM Arena tactics in here, only logical gegenpress set up. Now I am even more confused.  

 

 

[crusadertsar]

26 minutes ago, flauta kicma said:

 

 

Ok.... Now I won Serie A in first season with this tactic that I made following logical principles. No player instructions.

There is nothing familiar from FM Arena tactics in here, only logical gegenpress set up. Now I am even more confused.  

 

 

Congrats 👍 Hope you are enjoying the game then.