FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Spedding]

1 hour ago, Mr. Moran said:

Why? Is this really necessary? It's so confusing.

What’s confusing 

[anagain]

I'm rather disappointed about the removal of shouts.

I agree that they're not clear, but surely that is something to fix rather than just remove.

FM needs an aspect of the manager communicating with his players during the game. It's a key part of being a manager.

I really would rather SI put effort in to making shouts better. It concerns me a little that they believe they can't find a way to make this aspect of football work.

For years I have wanted some way to express my emotional ups and downs in to the game. A thumbs up when we create a nice passage of play or some movement that I want to see. An angry look when my player misses and interception.

 

I have little to say on the screenshots. I'll judge them when they're actual in game screenshots. Anyone saying they're worried by them is far too premature.

 

I like the idea of inviting fans up to the studio. I'd actually love to do it but getting time off my job with shortish notice is never easy.

[jcafcwbb]

I think touchline shouts are not what really happens in real football and in real football I wonder how useful they are.

What I have been experimenting with in the console version is the Match Plans which seems to be more in line with what happens in real football. You can see with the England side we are relatively positive until we take the lead then we change to Cautious/Defensive. That matches would you might do in the real life. I wonder how much managers can actually change things with shouts - players either ignore them or they do nothing if you are the inferior team. I think the better teams work to match plans rather than touchline shouts. I would like a more limited ability to change things outside half-time - you can make subs, change formation etc. but things like asking them to sit deeper (that is not covered in match plans) should be less effective. Half-Time is the place to change the match plans. Let make half-time more important as it is in real football.

I would like match plans integrated into the main game and not just the instant result. I would the belief in setting up differently for each match with these plans like top coaches do. Ancelotti had a plan for Champions League final but it didn't work in the first half and Madrid were lucky to go in level. Changes were obviously discussed at HT and Dortmund were less effective in the second half. It was the HT talk that was more effective than touchline shout as Ancelloti doesn't do that a lot.

Edited June 28 by jcafcwbb

[FourFiveOne]

20 hours ago, omerrath said:

No point to do so. The season starts on August 2024. It’s already irrational to release it every year on November (3 months after) , to stretch it even further would be bad in so many ways

Exactly! If anything they should release the game much earlier in the future. Waiting till November (or late October for beta) is so frustrating. Some leagues are already starting in July like Belgium and Switzerland.

Either way they'll have a full year to work on the next version, they only have to change the release date once, for example next year, as FM25 will have the most work to accomplish so this year they can't afford to lose that extra one or two months if they decided to shift. However, for the future they should consider releasing the game earlier, in my opinion.

[Domoboy23]

2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Shouts dont work properly, so they were removed. Fine. Promises and player interactions havent worked properly for years though, but no word on that (yet)?

Cutting down on the MP stuff doesnt really bother me, as the figures show, the percentage is miniscule. My worry about this is that its gonna be introduced again in like 2years time and sold as a completly new feature. Also FM e-sports? Ive never hear anyone say "they should make a sports out of fm"

 

not really impressed by the UI. Looks way too console like. But its in process i guess

I'd imagine that's because this is the very initial development update and they've announced some of the features that won't be returning and player interaction has been ''fixed'' and will be part of the later reveals and updates.

[saihtam]

15 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

I DID POST THIS IN THE SPECULATION THREAD. I HOPE PEOPLE DON'T MIND ME POSTING HERE AS WELL AS ITS APPROPRIATE TO THIS THREAD.

Just on this, quoted from Miles' blog post.

"The same is true of crafting a design that’s platform agnostic, enabling ease of play whether you’ve got a mouse and keyboard, a controller, or even a touch screen. "

Enabling ease of play with different devices is especially important for people with disabilities e.g. motor-control issues. I suspect going down this route might make FM more accessible to some people? I know Miles / SI (I think) are supporters of https://www.specialeffect.org.uk/ - a charity that enable gamers with disabilities to be more easily able to access games. In this discussion on this issue, I'd ask everyone to give this at least a little thought.

I hope this is part of the motivation for this route and it would be good to get a response from someone from SI about this.

This is very understandable and accessibility is must in future. I work in soft development company and we advice all our clients to take this topic seriously. Because coming years the rules are getting sticker and striker for applications. I dont know how this affects games tho. But I am glad to see slowly  our clients understanding the importance of this.

BUT, this does not mean u could develope the UX fully this in mind. You have to give options to switch into this via settings or some other ways. Regular users should not be affected that much by this and have full UI built around it.

Lets see how and what will be. This blog post did made things only more confusing than clear.

Edited June 28 by saihtam

[eXistenZ]

18 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

I'd imagine that's because this is the very initial development update and they've announced some of the features that won't be returning and player interaction has been ''fixed'' and will be part of the later reveals and updates.

Individual Player Targets and Interaction Logic | Football Manager 2024

 

"fixed"

[DavutOzkan]

2 hours ago, Spedding said:

What’s confusing 

I think it's because right-sided players are on the left and vice versa. 

[Icy]

I agree that shouts were not implemented properly being effective after a pause. I had situations where I berated my players, 5 minutes later they scored and then the shout was "launched" and they got mad for me berating them after scoring. also they were easy to exploit once you knew when and what to shout, became mechanical.

But imho the solution was not to remove them, better half done than not there, why to remove them before they are redone? i don't think they were doing any damage being there. Use them if you want, ignore if not.

As for the UI, most of us vets are becoming old farts but we can't go against what is going on around us, with tablets, phones and smart TVs (and it's interfaces) taking over so I understand SI wanting to modernize their interfaces to attract the new player base, but hopefully they can find the middle ground to not to lose us vets simplifying too much or specially removing info or forcing us to click more to get it.

Edited June 28 by Icy

[BlueScreen]

Am I the only person who likes the new UI? Maybe it's because I've been kinda disappointed with it since FM19, but I think it looks very cool, even the colors. 

 

[Blue Maniac]

And so continues the tradition of FM players moaning about literally everything possible

[NineCloudNine]

40 minutes ago, Blue Maniac said:

And so continues the tradition of FM players moaning about literally everything possible

This thread is why developers don’t bother giving updates until stuff is ready to be released.

[CamAshworth]

I notice how all the larger "content creators" who usually get invited to Si HQ are all absolutely loving the screenshots shown so far and wont hear a bad word about them 

[WelshMourinho]

3 hours ago, Blue Maniac said:

And so continues the tradition of FM players moaning about literally everything possible

And yet those comments at least offered something to this thread, unlike yours.

 

Not really gonna look into this too much myself. I didn't use any of the modes they're removing, so that'll have zero impact on how I play the game. I'm sure some people will miss them while they're gone, but I won't be one of them.

In terms of shouts going... they were never really a big part of my gameplay. They felt a little bit shoehorned in, as if SI were saying "real managers can talk to their players mid match and now you can too" but it didn't really have a lot of substance to it in my view. It also felt, much like similar other things in the game, that some seemed to work far better than others. I'd have preferred them to have been reworked, but again, it won't be something that will have a massive impact on my enjoyment of the game.

The UI looks plain, but it's far too soon to be making solid judgements on it. We don't know how the final game will look, but at least we have a sense of what they're looking to do, and an inkling of what it'll look like on our screens.

All in all we know certain things are being removed, and I'm hopeful that the next updates we get (whenever those may be) will be focusing on how things have actually improved for the new engine.

[g1nh0]

8 hours ago, anagain said:

I'm rather disappointed about the removal of shouts.

I agree that they're not clear, but surely that is something to fix rather than just remove.

FM needs an aspect of the manager communicating with his players during the game. It's a key part of being a manager.

I really would rather SI put effort in to making shouts better. It concerns me a little that they believe they can't find a way to make this aspect of football work.

For years I have wanted some way to express my emotional ups and downs in to the game. A thumbs up when we create a nice passage of play or some movement that I want to see. An angry look when my player misses and interception.

 

I have little to say on the screenshots. I'll judge them when they're actual in game screenshots. Anyone saying they're worried by them is far too premature.

 

I like the idea of inviting fans up to the studio. I'd actually love to do it but getting time off my job with shortish notice is never easy.

Feel exactly the same way with the removal of shouts. But the game has been venturing away from a realistic football management experience, to a direction more catered towards the casual gamer and a more simplified game as a whole to attract brand new players for greater sales. 

To me, it doesn't make any sense to remove a feature which allows the players to act like a manager on the bench does in real life, that is attempting to make a positive influence on the game by way of communicating to his team or individual players during the course of each half, to try and get your underperforming team to put in a bit more effort, to making sure your players remain focussed in certain parts of the game, berating them after a defensive howler, or to fire them up to try and score a late equaliser or winner.

This should play a significant part in your ability to affect the outcome of a game, especially those matches of a very tight nature where things such as this should be able make a difference, and the removal of them is actually a gamebreaker for me. The immersion of thinking every minute matters of a game has now gone. If anything it should just be fine tuned, not removed permanently from football manager.

Without them, there is now no way you can try to influence the match mid-game - apart from plugging in a broken tactic that exploits the ME (which I expect will be more impactful than subs). This will become a very important part of succeeding on the pitch, given the ability to motivate / manage the game via communication has been completely removed.

It will also make the pre match and half time team talks overpowered as well, as they will be the only opportunities you have to motivate your team with no chance to try and reverse this course during the next half.

But by removing shouts, it certainly will make it easier for the casual gamer to succeed for this reason .There are less elements in play to determine the outcome of a game. I just can't imagine watching a game play through without being able to hands on try to influence the game by way of communication. 

For that reason I really struggle to consider investing in any future FM game where I can't properly manage my team on the pitch, and most certainly won't consider investing in FM25 until such a thing can be re-implemented. I want to play football manager, not play find and play a downloaded broken tactic manager.

[warlock]

2 hours ago, g1nh0 said:

To me, it doesn't make any sense to remove a feature which allows the players to act like a manager on the bench does in real life, that is attempting to make a positive influence on the game

Have you watched the Euros? Every game I see a manager on the sideline yelling like crazy and then turning away in disgust... because players either can't hear him or aren't listening. SI could leave shouts in but remove every effect and it would be more realistic 

[janrzm]

I don’t want to say too much until seeing the actual game up close. I do want to give people the benefit of the doubt in challenging circumstances like these..

I think omitting the various modes makes sense to begin with.

The UI is making me a little nervous as I don’t want the game I play on PC to feel like a console or mobile game.But, I accept you’d need to use it before forming a strong opinion. 

Shouts….I respect the honesty from Miles about having never been happy with the mechanics. I also think it’s smart and sensible to omit for now as opposed to including something you aren’t happy with at the outset. That being said the idea of a football manager stood on the side line with no way of verbally communicating with his players is a little preposterous. Also, if the mechanic to react to things like conplaceny is removed does that mean the in-game mechanic that causes it has been removed as surely you can’t leave that in with no way to counter it??

just thoughts…..

[g1nh0]

14 minutes ago, warlock said:

Have you watched the Euros? Every game I see a manager on the sideline yelling like crazy and then turning away in disgust... because players either can't hear him or aren't listening. SI could leave shouts in but remove every effect and it would be more realistic 

haha, well given me an idea. maybe could set up a few match plans for the team. start the game and go put on a "more exciting" video on in front of my screen whilst each half plays through  

[warlock]

13 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Shouts….I respect the honesty from Miles about having never been happy with the mechanics.

I think the problem is the way the ME is engineered. As I understand it, the ME calculates the game before kick-off; it shows pre-calculated highlights; at any point you can do a 'shout' or make a tactical change; the ME re-calculates the the game from that point. The problem is that when a highlight is showing, the ME is not open to a change - the game is pre-destined until the highlight has finished and only then does any manager input have an effect.

Hence, everybody's complaint that the match has changed before the 'shout' has an effect. So SI have to re-engineer the ME to remove the problem. In which case, I don't see a problem in removing a questionable managerial input until they can iron out the problems.

I also accept that others will have a different view 

[g1nh0]

33 minutes ago, warlock said:

I think the problem is the way the ME is engineered. As I understand it, the ME calculates the game before kick-off; it shows pre-calculated highlights; at any point you can do a 'shout' or make a tactical change; the ME re-calculates the the game from that point. The problem is that when a highlight is showing, the ME is not open to a change - the game is pre-destined until the highlight has finished and only then does any manager input have an effect.

Hence, everybody's complaint that the match has changed before the 'shout' has an effect. So SI have to re-engineer the ME to remove the problem. In which case, I don't see a problem in removing a questionable managerial input until they can iron out the problems.

I also accept that others will have a different view 

Indeed, as do I  If you're referring to when a highlight has just started and you have selected a shout already but at the end of that highlight, the shout no longer would be your choice due to what occurred, then you are able to cancel that instructed shout and change it so that you can have the amended shout you would now want instead immediately from that point onwards (being the end of that highlight).

But I don't see a problem with not being able to try and change the course of a specific highlight that has already started, as say a goalscoring opportunity was already going to be the highlight, I'm not sure I'd want to see one of the shouts immediately prevent a chance mid that highlight. It should just have a general effect on your performance for a particular period before you have the chance to use a different shout.

Maybe not all the shouts are clear cut either and SI could improve it, but that for me is what they should have tried to do, rather than at the detriment of having a lack of options to manage your team.

Again, if they were actually transparent to provide a full reasoning behind the exclusion then you could understand. But off memory if I recall right they were not intending to bring this feature back at all in any future FM - which is a gamebreaker for me if so.

Edited June 29 by g1nh0

[warlock]

9 minutes ago, g1nh0 said:

if I recall right they were not intending to bring this feature back at all

I'm pretty sure Miles said they'll bring it back when they can make it work properly.

[g1nh0]

1 minute ago, warlock said:

I'm pretty sure Miles said they'll bring it back when they can make it work properly.

Certainly hope so. Was intending to skip FM 25 anyhow, sure hope it is a priority too along with the ME and the set pieces. 

[warlock]

5 minutes ago, g1nh0 said:

Was intending to skip FM 25 anyhow

There's a lot of potential pitfalls... but I've never been unhappy with FM so far.

I'm pretty sure the game will be enjoyable whatever 

[dℍaisa]

It appears that Sports Interactive (SI) has been removing less-used features instead of addressing thier issues, as evidenced by the removal of shouts. This trend is causing me to worry that international management might be the next feature on the chopping block.

Edited June 29 by dℍaisa

[WizbaII]

Some people here are bemoaning the removal of shouts. Just because you use them, it doesn't mean everyone else does. You never stop to ask yourself, "why should I need a 'Shout' to tell a fake player to 'Concentrate More'. If my virtual player will not work hard unless and until I 'Shout' at him...does that not seem a little...idiotic?" This is supposed to be Football Manager, not Social Interactions Manager. You are supposed to win matches based on football knowledge, not because you insist on using 'Shouts' on your players. Or is it fine for something to be silly, as long as it brings "immersion"?

You've just been told that Shouts will only return if they work properly. Why that would be bad news to you is something I can't understand, especially when you are claiming to have high standards for FM games.

 

As far as the design builds, they look good. Obviously, we are not seeing the full picture, so being critical of SI on this is misguided. Right now, quite a few people are looking at the egg that SI have shown us, and criticizing it for not being a chicken. Well, the game comes out later this year, it's not coming out tomorrow. Criticizing a design build doesn't make you smart, it just shows that you have nothing better to do.

It lacks color and "personality"? That's because it's a design build.

It looks simple? Well, I think that's the point. The UI doesn't have to look like the cockpit of an airplane in order to be good.

But I want a design that is so good that I will never have to click more than once! That's not possible.

[Aoyao]

16 hours ago, Spedding said:

What’s confusing 

role

[phnompenhandy]

49 minutes ago, WizbaII said:

You've just been told that Shouts will only return if they work properly. Why that would be bad news to you is something I can't understand, especially when you are claiming to have high standards for FM games.

The point is (1) it's an important part of a football manager's job on matchday, and (2) SI have had two years to fix a feature that's been in the game for years - why have they not done so?

Going on about 'fake players'reveals that you don't understand players who get immersed in the game - indeed you look down on us, so maybe you're never going to understand.

[dℍaisa]

1 hour ago, WizbaII said:

Some people here are bemoaning the removal of shouts. Just because you use them, it doesn't mean everyone else does. You never stop to ask yourself, "why should I need a 'Shout' to tell a fake player to 'Concentrate More'. If my virtual player will not work hard unless and until I 'Shout' at him...does that not seem a little...idiotic?" This is supposed to be Football Manager, not Social Interactions Manager. You are supposed to win matches based on football knowledge, not because you insist on using 'Shouts' on your players. Or is it fine for something to be silly, as long as it brings "immersion"?

You've just been told that Shouts will only return if they work properly. Why that would be bad news to you is something I can't understand, especially when you are claiming to have high standards for FM games.

 

As far as the design builds, they look good. Obviously, we are not seeing the full picture, so being critical of SI on this is misguided. Right now, quite a few people are looking at the egg that SI have shown us, and criticizing it for not being a chicken. Well, the game comes out later this year, it's not coming out tomorrow. Criticizing a design build doesn't make you smart, it just shows that you have nothing better to do.

It lacks color and "personality"? That's because it's a design build.

It looks simple? Well, I think that's the point. The UI doesn't have to look like the cockpit of an airplane in order to be good.

But I want a design that is so good that I will never have to click more than once! That's not possible.

The distinction between who is "moaning" and who is giving a feedback is unmistakable in the tones.

[Mr. Moran]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Spedding:

What’s confusing 

The left players are displayed on the right side and vice versa. 
That adds up to a few design coices that are somewhat unlogical and player unfriendly to me. 

[afailed10]

Wasn’t this supposed to be a new engine with new code? So why does it matter if shouts did not work properly until now?

Also and as usual we hear only about fluff and nothing about core issues such as AI squad building, training, player interactions, match engine…

[Brodie21]

I think in these advanced times, 'Shouts' should be being looked into to make them more interactive by way of the manager using keyboard & / or voice to type / say "3 - stay back", "7 - hold the touchline". "11 - cut inside more" etc

[Federico]

By the way, beyond what I said previously, I agree removing shouts is removing a big part of the interaction between the coach and the players. Being a coach myself I know how communicating with them is crucial during the game and definitely a big part of immersion during the match-day experience. To me, they had to be increased in number of options and body/language (even tone of voice).

Edited June 29 by Federico

[jcafcwbb]

I think the point that some people are missing is that the "shouts" that managers use are dependant on the manager IRL.

For example, Ancelotti very rarely uses shouts and he is seen to be mostly serenely sitting and watching play go on. He will only change things tactically if he sees something not working. He would never use the fire-up shout as that is not his way.

Other managers Klopp, for example, is more demonstrative.

But looking at the England performances would Gareth asking his players to Focus or Demand More really fix the clear tactical problems with the team? The shouts may make a manager feel good and that he is actually trying to do something but in reality it does diddly-squat in changing a match in real life - so it shouldn't be in a game. Now, changing a formation from a 4-3-2-1 to a 3-4-2-1 may have a change but you do not need shouts to do it.

And if your dugout is to the left of the centre line and your right back is on the other side how is he going to hear it? 

The modern manager has match plans not shouts. Players know what they should do. Shouts are more for releasing tension then being effective.

[jcafcwbb]

32 minutes ago, Federico said:

By the way, beyond what I said previously, I agree removing shouts is removing a big part of the interaction between the coach and the players. Being a coach myself I know how communicating with them is crucial during the game and definitely a big part of immersion during the match-day experience. To me, they had to be increased in number of options and body/language (even tone of voice).

I think a lot of what you are doing will more the case of us editing stuff in the tactics screen. For example, playing a higher or lower defensive line, asking a player to play narrower or wider, asking them to play at a higher tempo or a lower one. The shouts were meant to be a quicker way to do this without pausing the game and doing it. 

[g1nh0]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

By the way, beyond what I said previously, I agree removing shouts is removing a big part of the interaction between the coach and the players. Being a coach myself I know how communicating with them is crucial during the game and definitely a big part of immersion during the match-day experience. To me, they had to be increased in number of options and body/language (even tone of voice).

Exactly, anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't got a clue about management on a broader scale. Yes, it won't correct a tactical flaw, and nor should it give a greater advantage in those circumstances where you may not tactically have got things right. And yes, not all managers are as vocal.

But when a team is just a bit lacklustre or underperforming on a day, need some encouragement after encountering a degree of misfortune, or whatever circumstances the game brings up, rather than go to another system that may tactically work out better (assuming you have the players to do it), having the option of man managing your players on the pitch to get more out of them is integral.

This especially when you have two tightly contested teams where little things can make the difference - and that's what football is, a game of miniscule things which decide tight close encounters.

Do you honestly think managers such as Klopp, Conte, Mourinho would be as effective if they were just a sitting duck on the bench all game? Showing a bit of energy on the touchline should transmit / rub off on to the players, and if successful should have a positive (or negative) effect.

The manager's that aren't so vocal, should then indeed be more tactically astute to influence the game positively.

Edited June 29 by g1nh0

[Chooxen]

Speaking also as someone who has coached in sports (not football), we were in constant communication with the players on pitch. You might want to focus on specific individuals or clarify position or when a team should execute a tactic, etc. General shouts of encouragement and reminders to stay focused are also very helpful over a long game where attention wanes and complacency sets in.

I honestly don't think the system was so broken that it warranted removal. It is already fairly clear that shouts don't occur until the ball goes out of play and the game often prompts you to change your mind when a highlight occurs, so that you don't berate a team that just scored. It seems to work well even if it's not an ideal system.

[jcafcwbb]

1 minute ago, Chooxen said:

Speaking also as someone who has coached in sports (not football), we were in constant communication with the players on pitch. You might want to focus on specific individuals or clarify position or when a team should execute a tactic, etc. General shouts of encouragement and reminders to stay focused are also very helpful over a long game where attention wanes and complacency sets in.

I honestly don't think the system was so broken that it warranted removal. It is already fairly clear that shouts don't occur until the ball goes out of play and the game often prompts you to change your mind when a highlight occurs, so that you don't berate a team that just scored. It seems to work well even if it's not an ideal system.

Just out of curiousity, how does a manager like Ancelotti succeed then when he very rarely makes touchline shouts? Yes, he has had some good teams but he was also Everton's most successful manager, and Everton haven't been a top side since the 1980s, since Howard Kendall with this relaxed attitude. He is known for letting players decide on the pitch. 

[StormenDK]

Removing shouts seems rash. But that doesn't mean they won't be back in the future.

SI has most likely decided that they are not implemented correctly. So what do you do? - You fix them.

But when you are migrating your code to a whole new engine, the decision then becomes "Do we move the faulty shouts over, having our new game code take this implementation into consideration?" - or "Do we remove the feature (for now) and start with clean code, and then implement it correctly later?".

I think SI did the right thing in removing features that either weren't working (and couldn't easily be fixed) or that no one uses.

As for the UI. I don't really care much about the standard UI, as I always mod it. I just hope that customization is available in-game, and that modding of the UI will be easier in the future, as it is a nightmare to get into. I have only tried to pick stuff from 2-3 mods and combine them, and that can often be very time-consuming and annoying.

I hope for true modding possibilities across the whole game, so modders can update/change almost any aspect of it, instead of just the database and a bit of UI elements.

[autohoratio]

3 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

Just out of curiousity, how does a manager like Ancelotti succeed then when he very rarely makes touchline shouts? Yes, he has had some good teams but he was also Everton's most successful manager, and Everton haven't been a top side since the 1980s, since Howard Kendall with this relaxed attitude. He is known for letting players decide on the pitch. 

Because football management isn't a one-size-fits-all approach. There's no singular "right" way to manage a team.

[Sir_Liam]

I'm disappointed at the removal of shouts as it's a feature I do use, even if it did need improving.

I think the important thing with the new UI is improving the creation of custom views, making it easier and less fiddly, and also allowing us to import/export them in bulk.  Custom views will also presumably be available much more widely throughout the game with the new engine which is good.

[Chooxen]

7 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

Just out of curiousity, how does a manager like Ancelotti succeed then when he very rarely makes touchline shouts? Yes, he has had some good teams but he was also Everton's most successful manager, and Everton haven't been a top side since the 1980s, since Howard Kendall with this relaxed attitude. He is known for letting players decide on the pitch. 

This is a case of an exception not disproving the rule. Many managers continually shout from the sidelines, that's not really debatable.

[Harryhi]

I wonder if the “mid cycle feature releases” are a little hint they maybe going down the DLC route. 

[Platinum]

On 27/06/2024 at 20:31, pukfm said:

It doesn't look good 

So they remove lot of huge features, just to make a new weird UI? And what is the new features this year - womens football ?? It looks like a skip for me. So sad.

They haven't begun the feature reveals yet

[GIMN]

I must admit I have zero issue with the removal of shouts.  I'm not sure I've yet seen an example of a manager shouting encouragement just once from the sideline and then sit back, gagged, for the next 10 minutes as he watches his players delighted by those wonderful inspirational words he had just uttered.

Then again, I also haven't seen a manager ignore what's going on the pitch until a seemingly unimportant throw-in perks him up in the belief there could be a chance occurring sometime within the next minute.

As @StormenDK mentioned, when migrating something over, you need to assess whether everything is necessary or relevant, or whether opinions have changed on the direction things should go.

[Brodie21]

You know something, with the arrogance of SI - which they have had for a few years now regards the feeling they don't need to promote their game or provide any reasonable updates e.g. pretty much nothing for FM22, FM23, FM24 and re:FM25 will purchasers of the game be forced to have womens football in their game, I'm going to make the decision myself ; FM24 is the last purchase I will make in this series. 

And for anyone who says the game isn't out yet, you better believe that at this stage of the year,  SI are well aware at the very least if womens football will be mandatory or not.

I am not saying this for a response from SI & indeed, I would not expect one. Nor will not be replying to this post from SI or anyone else. Just wanted to get it off my chest once & for all 

To my mind, SI have sold out. They may as well call it 'FM Inclusivity - like it or not'. Not that they will miss my few quid 

Shame you forgot your customers over the last few years. Let us hope for your sake an enthusiastic legitimate competitor never comes along....too late to pull back the reigns at that point.

Thanks though for the many years of annually updated fun. As I play LLM, updates are not really necessary, so FM24 will suit my needs for many years to come, until maybe an alternative presents itself.

Ps Of course, anyone can reply if they like. I guarantee as much as I will not be purchasing another game in the series, that I will not be commenting on replies.

[endtime]

Imagine being so triggered by the inclusion of women's football, jeez.

[kiwityke1983]

Reading some of these comments about women's football is just sad.

Personally I have zero interest in women's football IRL couldn't name you 5 female players if my life depended on it and I'm related to an England international.

But the same goes for every league in FM bar the one my team plays in, I literally only watch my team these days so I'm sure I'll feel about womens football in FM like I do the Hong Kong league, a place I've spent many a happy virtual year and yet couldn't tell you a single thing about IRL.

[santy001]

8 hours ago, Brodie21 said:

You know something, with the arrogance of SI - which they have had for a few years now regards the feeling they don't need to promote their game or provide any reasonable updates e.g. pretty much nothing for FM22, FM23, FM24 and re:FM25 will purchasers of the game be forced to have womens football in their game, I'm going to make the decision myself ; FM24 is the last purchase I will make in this series. 

SI are adding one of the few features of real life football which is still missing in women's football and yet somehow you're against it. Suspicious... 

In more general terms for those who aren't lacking in brain cells it's worth highlighting at various levels SI have brought on extra staff to make this aspect work, so as Stoke researcher I'm not now "forced" to do the Stoke Women's Team Research. It wasn't suggested that I pick it up, it wasn't even asked if I could. It's something that will be done by an individual who puts effort into watching the Stoke Women team. This has been replicated in other areas of the game too. 

[NineCloudNine]

9 hours ago, Brodie21 said:

You know something, with the arrogance of SI - which they have had for a few years now regards the feeling they don't need to promote their game or provide any reasonable updates e.g. pretty much nothing for FM22, FM23, FM24 and re:FM25 will purchasers of the game be forced to have womens football in their game, I'm going to make the decision myself ; FM24 is the last purchase I will make in this series. 

And for anyone who says the game isn't out yet, you better believe that at this stage of the year,  SI are well aware at the very least if womens football will be mandatory or not.

I am not saying this for a response from SI & indeed, I would not expect one. Nor will not be replying to this post from SI or anyone else. Just wanted to get it off my chest once & for all 

To my mind, SI have sold out. They may as well call it 'FM Inclusivity - like it or not'. Not that they will miss my few quid 

Shame you forgot your customers over the last few years. Let us hope for your sake an enthusiastic legitimate competitor never comes along....too late to pull back the reigns at that point.

Thanks though for the many years of annually updated fun. As I play LLM, updates are not really necessary, so FM24 will suit my needs for many years to come, until maybe an alternative presents itself.

Ps Of course, anyone can reply if they like. I guarantee as much as I will not be purchasing another game in the series, that I will not be commenting on replies.

This is such a weird take. What does “mandatory” mean in this context? You don’t have to play or engage with any part of the game if you don’t want to. This is like conplaining about the inclusion of South America, or lower leagues, or international football. 

[Colonel Tigh]

I enjoyed the update. Lots of data driven decisions that just make sense. I hated the touchline shouts and reading Miles twitter feed it turns out I didn’t even understand how it actually worked in the first place either