Game 40: England vs Slovakia LIVE from the Arena AufSchalke. Sunday ITV1 5pm

[Gary_Parker]

Such a mediocre team filled with good players from a good squad. That was a very predictable struggle. Bailed out by a brilliant goal to equalise (with a very OTT celebration given the overall context) and some determination and strikers instinct from an otherwise anonymous Harry Kane. 

Took the chances in the end, but much improvement needed. Drop Foden, off a cliff if need be, awful on the left and too stupid to follow a defensive line. Too much being made of trying to shoehorn players into positions, Southgate needs to be brave and just drop the on who's performing poorly. Walker in the same boat, if he didn't have recovery pace, he'd be Djimi Traore. 

The lack of game intelligence and composure is ridiculous from some very talented players, that can't all be on the coach. 

Go 4-4-2 in the next game, Bellingham and Rice in the middle, Saka and Gordon wide, Toney or Watkins paired with Kane. 

[Pukey]

10 minutes ago, Gary_Parker said:

Such a mediocre team filled with good players from a good squad. That was a very predictable struggle. Bailed out by a brilliant goal to equalise (with a very OTT celebration given the overall context) and some determination and strikers instinct from an otherwise anonymous Harry Kane. 

Took the chances in the end, but much improvement needed. Drop Foden, off a cliff if need be, awful on the left and too stupid to follow a defensive line. Too much being made of trying to shoehorn players into positions, Southgate needs to be brave and just drop the on who's performing poorly. Walker in the same boat, if he didn't have recovery pace, he'd be Djimi Traore. 

The lack of game intelligence and composure is ridiculous from some very talented players, that can't all be on the coach. 

Go 4-4-2 in the next game, Bellingham and Rice in the middle, Saka and Gordon wide, Toney or Watkins paired with Kane. 

The context was they were seconds away from getting dumped out in a game they should have won and saved themselves, and meant they were going into extra time with momentum against a Slovakia team that would be gutted. I genuinely don't understand what kind of celebration you expected? Can you please explain what was OTT about it? I don't see anything that was beyond literally any other team pretty much ever that score a last minute equaliser. 

[VamPook]

30 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

England are into a knockout quarter final having looked like they were crashing out. You would have to be a complete moron to call celebrating that embarrassing 

He caught a nothing ball fgs, not made some world cup final penalty save. Final whistle hasn't even gone yet and you don't think people would find it embarrassing he's going absolutely mental at that?

But yes, of course throwing out a personal insult like "complete moron" by a mod is of course warranted for that opinion

[Lucas]

2 minutes ago, VamPook said:

But yes, of course throwing out a personal insult like "complete moron" by a mod is of course warranted for that opinion

To be fair, he said "You would have to be a moron", not "You are a moron"

You're saying it's a personal insult, so are you saying you are?  

You're being a bit soft here and looking for something that there isn't. 

[Pukey]

12 minutes ago, VamPook said:

He caught a nothing ball fgs, not made some world cup final penalty save. Final whistle hasn't even gone yet and you don't think people would find it embarrassing he's going absolutely mental at that?

But yes, of course throwing out a personal insult like "complete moron" by a mod is of course warranted for that opinion

It was clearly the last attack and indeed the ref blew his whistle moments later. Why does everything have to be in a world cup final for celebration police  

[Lucas]

2 minutes ago, Pukey said:

It was clearly the last attack and indeed the ref blew his whistle moments later. Why does everything have to be in a world cup final for celebration police  

Fine when it's the last game of the season and they've won nothing though, of course. 

[Rob1981]

13 minutes ago, VamPook said:

He caught a nothing ball fgs, not made some world cup final penalty save. Final whistle hasn't even gone yet and you don't think people would find it embarrassing he's going absolutely mental at that?

He caught the ball at the end of Slovakia’s last attack, when the stoppage time was up. It was obvious the ref would blow as soon as the ball was in the air. At that point he knew the game was won. 

30 seconds from elimination to going through after holding off Slovakia trying to get back into the game for the last 10 minutes. Of course he is going to celebrate  

Desperate stuff. No doubt if we’d gone out you’d also be crowing that the players “didn’t want it enough”.  

[Pukey]

Tbf if it was a different keeper I'm pretty sure VamPook wouldn't say anything, he just has a vendetta against Pickford for injuring Van Dijk 4 years ago or whenever it was. And hey, no judgement, I've held onto grudges longer for pettier reasons. Just, if you're gonna criticise, make sure it's about something substantial not...celebrating a win  

[TalkSport]

I’m just glad there was 20 seconds left. Seen Pickford do that against us, then minutes later concede  

[Gary_Parker]

9 hours ago, Pukey said:

The context was they were seconds away from getting dumped out in a game they should have won and saved themselves, and meant they were going into extra time with momentum against a Slovakia team that would be gutted. I genuinely don't understand what kind of celebration you expected? Can you please explain what was OTT about it? I don't see anything that was beyond literally any other team pretty much ever that score a last minute equaliser. 

Its a small time mentality. Its Bellingham standing there going "aren't I brilliant" and shouting 'Who else?' to the crowd for a 95th minute equaliser against a team they should have beaten pretty comfortably. I get there is a massive amount of relief being shown there as well, masked by the 'messiah like' poses (not sure why Kane is there, maybe so people knew he was still on the field at that point) but if you look at the great sides, you'd have a player going up to them, pushing them away and telling them to get back and get focussed for kick off again because the job isn't done. 

I appreciate we'll probably not agree on this, thats fine. I mean, being Scottish its fairly unlikely i'll be able to experience the same thing first hand, but if you're going to be real winners, you let the fans celebrate that lucky escape, you get set to go again, whether its 30 mins or 30 seconds left to play and make sure you get the job done. And once the whistle has gone, you celebrate like Arsenal do after a league win. 

Of course, its moot now, they did scrape through and win the game in the end, but there isn't an obvious born leader in that side at all to drag them through the toughest moments and that could come back to hurt them against the bigger sides later on. 

 

[kopsy101]

9 hours ago, Lucas said:

To be fair, he said "You would have to be a moron", not "You are a moron"

You're saying it's a personal insult, so are you saying you are?  

You're being a bit soft here and looking for something that there isn't. 

It's probably the comment stating that disagreeing with an opinion making you a moron, knowing that he disagrees.  

Personally I think he's well within his right to celebrate, I certainly would. 

[Rob1981]

I don't think you can compare celebrations in an international tournament with celebrations after a league win ffs.  The pressure is higher, the stakes are higher, the tournaments are few and far between.  Some players only get one or two chances to play in these games in their entire careers.

You don't see unused substitutes pegging it down the touchline to celebrate goals in the Premier League.  But this happens at literally every World Cup and Euros, literally with every team pretty much.  Whether the goals are first half, second half, stoppage time, whatever.

I get people want to see England fail.  But going down a rabbit hole about what level of celebration is or isn't proportionate.  Christ.  They got a last minute goal.  Then they've gone on and won the game.  And if things finally start to click we could still win the tournament, even though they all thought they were only 30 seconds away from coming home.  Just let them enjoy it ffs.

[themadsheep2001]

Its knockout football. Everything matters so much more. You've got players celebrating every big tackle or clearance because getting right or wrong could be the difference between you going on or going home. Just find it exasperating that people want to suck the joy out of the game, as if enough joy hasnt been already

[adhikapp]

Gareth OUTgate

[kopsy101]

7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Its knockout football. Everything matters so much more. You've got players celebrating every big tackle or clearance because getting right or wrong could be the difference between you going on or going home. Just find it exasperating that people want to suck the joy out of the game, as if enough joy hasnt been already

The celebration police are a nightmare.

That being said, there's nothing worse than seeing Pickford happy but that's a totally personal issue as a Liverpool and Scotland fan.  

[VP.]

8 minutes ago, kopsy101 said:

The celebration police are a nightmare.

That being said, there's nothing worse than seeing Pickford happy but that's a totally personal issue as a Liverpool and Scotland fan.  

It's not just Liverpool fans as he's an absolute twit but when playing for England he'll get supported the same as any one else (by me anyway).

[Darren Moores Mum]

Any other team does that and there's not a single comment about the celebrations. No other team is giving it golf claps all round.

I understand it's a game we should have been winning relatively comfortably, but we weren't. We were heading out and the players were going to be on the receiving end of much criticism. Given expectations this would have been worse than Iceland.

Pickford can be an arse but I think most England fans were him in that moment. Pure relief.

[kopsy101]

18 minutes ago, VP. said:

It's not just Liverpool fans as he's an absolute twit but when playing for England he'll get supported the same as any one else (by me anyway).

It's just his greasy hair and mouthy face creased in ecstasy, ew 

Nah good player and I'd imagine that Englands fans all felt the same at that point. There's always somebody online to take the p***. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

 

[Baptista_8]

1 hour ago, Rob1981 said:

You don't see unused substitutes pegging it down the touchline to celebrate goals in the Premier League.

You do though.

[metal_guitarist]

10 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

You do though.

Gary Neville says "hi"

[Barry Cartman]

2 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

You don't see unused substitutes pegging it down the touchline to celebrate goals in the Premier League

of course you do  

[Rob1981]

2 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

of course you do  

Maybe the odd goal, in a massive title decider or something

A handful a season probably.  International tournaments you can have whole squads piling on for nearly every goal.

[oche balboa]

We was lucky, We should have gone out. There is nothing about this team which gives anything like we can win this competition. Southgate is woeful and relied on brilliance from Jude Bellingham to rescue England. Despite scoring in Extra Time we wasn't that good either. Swiss will be a tough test but they did fail to beat Scotland which should give us a lot of confidence. But the half of the draw we are in is a sheer Jobberfest  

[Pukey]

You see it for very late goals, maybe in massive games as well. Your bog standard late September Brentford vs Bournemouth subs aren't piling onto the pitch for a 30th minute Toney penalty. 

[Rob1981]

This actually looks like we played alright   Maybe the trick is to check the stats afterwards and not actually watch the games.

[Bliss Seeker]

2 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

This actually looks like we played alright   Maybe the trick is to check the stats afterwards and not actually watch the games.

Would be interesting to see the stats from before and after extra time. Was around 73% last time they did a graphic late in the second half on ITV. 

I swear we only made 3 passes in the entirety of extra time

 

[Barry Cartman]

32 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Maybe the odd goal, in a massive title decider or something

A handful a season probably.  International tournaments you can have whole squads piling on for nearly every goal.

That was a game in January and Arsenal weren't close to being in a title race

It was just the first non Aguero goal I could think of when we scored late on, I'm sure other clubs have similar examples 

[Rob1981]

**** me, are we actually doing this?

Yes, you're right of course.  Some Premier League goals are celebrated really hard.  But out of the 1,246 scored last season?  Probably not that many.

And in general, international tournaments come with much bigger stakes.

I mean that's literally why we all watch them.

Maybe someone should draw us up an "Allowable Celebration matrix" ahead of the Switzerland game.  Factoring in the timing of the goal, the quality of the opposition and whether or not each team has played well or played badly up until that point.  Then we don't need to argue.  We can all be absolutely clear what level of emotion the players are permitted to show, and when happy becomes too happy.

[eenie]

20 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

This actually looks like we played alright   Maybe the trick is to check the stats afterwards and not actually watch the games.

Yeah, those stats really don't tell the true story. Just a reminder to the stats nerds that football is played on grass, not on a spreadsheet

That said, sometimes stats do give a true reflection. Scotland's xG Vs Germany of 0.01 tells you everything you need to know

[eenie]

Re: the celebrations, I think it's fine to say that the players are completely entitled to celebrate like they did given the situation and the stakes, and also to say that given the performance, fans can find it a bit cringe. But that doesn't mean the players are wrong or sold be embarrassed or anything like that.

[Barry Cartman]

19 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

**** me, are we actually doing this?

Yes, you're right of course.  Some Premier League goals are celebrated really hard.  But out of the 1,246 scored last season?  Probably not that many.

And in general, international tournaments come with much bigger stakes.

I mean that's literally why we all watch them.

Maybe someone should draw us up an "Allowable Celebration matrix" ahead of the Switzerland game.  Factoring in the timing of the goal, the quality of the opposition and whether or not each team has played well or played badly up until that point.  Then we don't need to argue.  We can all be absolutely clear what level of emotion the players are permitted to show, and when happy becomes too happy.

or don't take a post by VP mocking an Everton player so seriously  

[Rob1981]

2 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

or don't take a post by VP mocking an Everton player so seriously  

It’s you ffs, trying to die on this hill that sometimes PL are celebrated just as much as international tournament goals and with unused subs running on. So much so that you’ve gone looking for photographic evidence   VP will be off doing something else by now if he’s got any sense.

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, kopsy101 said:

The celebration police are a nightmare.

That being said, there's nothing worse than seeing Pickford happy but that's a totally personal issue as a Liverpool and Scotland fan.  

Haha at least that makes sense though

its the nonsense manufactured argument around celebrations that's daft, as if people wouldn't celebrate if it was their club in the same position 

[Lucas]

26 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Maybe someone should draw us up an "Allowable Celebration matrix" ahead of the Switzerland game.  Factoring in the timing of the goal, the quality of the opposition and whether or not each team has played well or played badly up until that point.  Then we don't need to argue.  We can all be absolutely clear what level of emotion the players are permitted to show, and when happy becomes too happy.

The matrix would be very easy. Just frame it all from a Liverpool's/big club's fans perspective and it's very easy to work out. Nobody else was complaining about the celebrating except for bizarre irrational reasons like not liking Everton players. 

[Barry Cartman]

6 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

It’s you ffs, trying to die on this hill that sometimes PL are celebrated just as much as international tournament goals and with unused subs running on. So much so that you’ve gone looking for photographic evidence   VP will be off doing something else by now if he’s got any sense.

Don't make untrue sweeping statements then  

[m_fenton]

8 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Don't make untrue sweeping statements then  

Or you could read the whole post instead of quoting a selective part of it? Quite clear from the rest of what Rob said that it was about how often you see it happen (most goals vs very rarely) rather than anything else. What an odd thing to get worked up about

[Barry Cartman]

3 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

I don't think you can compare celebrations in an international tournament with celebrations after a league win ffs.  The pressure is higher, the stakes are higher, the tournaments are few and far between.  Some players only get one or two chances to play in these games in their entire careers.

You don't see unused substitutes pegging it down the touchline to celebrate goals in the Premier League.

I did read his post thanks, and I don't disagree with what he's saying, but you clearly do see subs pegging it down the line to celebrate goals so it was just a silly thing to say while making his point  

[Weezer]

Not sure it’s just a case of the “celebration police” tbf. I celebrated too but you can’t deny that Pickford looks like a massive cringey ***** in that clip, and not for the first time either.

[Bootador]

1 hour ago, Rob1981 said:

This actually looks like we played alright   Maybe the trick is to check the stats afterwards and not actually watch the games.

35 crosses???

And that's generous because Slovakia stopped attacking after scoring as you can see - and still won the xg game

[Rob1981]

Dunno that looks to me like we should have xG'd it in 90 minutes.

Not sure why everyone's worrying.

[Bootador]

And Pickford celebration is fine, they know they've got an easy path to final.

This isn't a "we're through, but it's France next"... it means more! Play like we can and we're in the final.

[Smallen]

that xG graph confirming how pathetic we were after going ahead. The changes we made were ridiculous and honestly the sort of thing I’d expect from Steve Bruce.

Edited July 1 by Smallen

[Ackter]

2 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Dunno that looks to me like we should have xG'd it in 90 minutes.

Not sure why everyone's worrying.

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.

[Rob1981]

I'm not sure myself.  It's exciting isn't it.  Never knowing whether we are actually going to turn up in the next game.

[JJ72]

1 minute ago, Rob1981 said:

I'm not sure myself.  It's exciting isn't it.  Never knowing whether we are actually going to turn up in the next game.

we won't. There now move on

[Darren Moores Mum]

Not ideal

https://news.sky.com/story/jude-bellingham-faces-uefa-disciplinary-investigation-over-conduct-in-england-win-over-slovakia-at-euro-2024-13157788

[TalkSport]

2 hours ago, Bootador said:

35 crosses???

And that's generous because Slovakia stopped attacking after scoring as you can see - and still won the xg game

What’s the xg on that missed chance from 45 yards? 

[eenie]

3 hours ago, Bootador said:

And Pickford celebration is fine, they know they've got an easy path to final.

This isn't a "we're through, but it's France next"... it means more! Play like we can and we're in the final.

Aye, because they've swept aside all of the easy teams they've met so far.

[Bootador]

Just now, eenie said:

Aye, because they've swept aside all of the easy teams they've met so far.

He's probably not thinking that though, goalies do their own separate thing in training most of the time - he probably has no idea they're just as **** in training as they are on the pitch.