Making Saka score.

[CKBrahMa]

Hi everyone,

This thread won't be a long discussion one, just a thread trying to create a clinical Bukayo Saka, as an IF-a.

First attempt : creating an overload on the left and release on the right :

 

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

[crusadertsar]

What are his attributes like? I didn't even think he fit the IF role? Isn't he more of a IW or even a very attacking wingback. Surely his Finishing and composure are not that good? From what I remember in FM23. Unless he got a huge upgrade in FM24 

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 13 minutes, crusadertsar a dit :

What are his attributes like? I didn't even think he fit the IF role? Isn't he more of a IW or even a very attacking wingback. Surely his Finishing and composure are not that good? From what I remember in FM23. Unless he got a huge upgrade in FM24 

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, CKBrahMa said:

Hi everyone,

This thread won't be a long discussion one, just a thread trying to create a clinical Bukayo Saka, as an IF-a.

First attempt : creating an overload on the left and release on the right :

 

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Move your lines up to control the game a bit more? Can't imagine too many sides will be bringing it to you as Arsenal. 

Wide strikers won't bang in goals as consistently as a central striker on FM...but it will help to get some width in there for the inside runs of an IF. 

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 7 heures, Cloud9 a dit :

Move your lines up to control the game a bit more? Can't imagine too many sides will be bringing it to you as Arsenal. 

Wide strikers won't bang in goals as consistently as a central striker on FM...but it will help to get some width in there for the inside runs of an IF. 

Having a high press won’t lead to less space for the IF, as he will have less space in behind the defensive line to run into ?

I know that wide strickers have less impact than central strickers in FM. I have 2 options in my mind right now :

1. Create an overload on the opposite side of the IF. It will lead to a more realistic line of statistics (no, your u18 Columbian shouldn’t score 50 goals in one season on a regular basis)

2. Move to an asymetric tactic and put the IF as an AF, leaving his wing to a lone wb.

should be more efficient but less realistic…

 

[Cloud9]

16 hours ago, CKBrahMa said:

Having a high press won’t lead to less space for the IF, as he will have less space in behind the defensive line to run into ?

I know that wide strickers have less impact than central strickers in FM. I have 2 options in my mind right now :

1. Create an overload on the opposite side of the IF. It will lead to a more realistic line of statistics (no, your u18 Columbian shouldn’t score 50 goals in one season on a regular basis)

2. Move to an asymetric tactic and put the IF as an AF, leaving his wing to a lone wb.

should be more efficient but less realistic…

 

Hmm on space, the question would be if teams are bringing the game to you or not. If they're sitting back/compact (which will happen a lot an Arsenal) you'll need to create space for him to operate in. Stretching opposition defenses vertically + w/width will create gaps between defenders for him to make his goalscoring runs as an IF(a). 

If they have come out to play, then sitting back in a mid block is an option to let him use his pace. I don't think that will be on most games you play. Could try him as an off foot winger(a) when sitting a bit deeper. Ramdeuter can be interesting too. 

Is Sesko a decent fit for a CF(s)? A good CF(s) is wonderful...but an awkward fit can suck the oxygen out of your attack since he roams and gets to do what he likes. A lot of strikers lack the passing + mentals to pull off the role (on top of the duties to lead the line). 

Edited July 16 by Cloud9

[skyzekaizo]

How important is it for the CF-s to be strong?

Can an dwarf with 5 heading/ jumping reach and 8 strength still make it as a CF-s?

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, skyzekaizo said:

How important is it for the CF-s to be strong?

Can an dwarf with 5 heading/ jumping reach and 8 strength still make it as a CF-s?

The role will hold up the ball so strength is a key attribute.

On poor aerial ability...it is more workable depending on your tactical approach/roles you choose around him. If you're playing a CF-a, I would favor him being competent in the air to get on the end of more direct approaches/in attacking the box. 

F9 is a strong option for intelligent, passers of the ball w/out those physical attributes (doesn't hold up the ball). They can still get you a fair number of goals as well. The ability to dribble is generally make or break on the role for me. 

Edited July 17 by Cloud9

[skyzekaizo]

43 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

The role will hold up the ball so strength is a key attribute.

On poor aerial ability...it is more workable depending on your tactical approach/roles you choose around him. If you're playing a CF-a, I would favor him being competent in the air to get on the end of more direct approaches/in attacking the box. 

F9 is a strong option for intelligent, passers of the ball w/out those physical attributes (doesn't hold up the ball). They can still get you a fair number of goals as well. The ability to dribble is generally make or break on the role for me. 

I really feel like the F9 is too passive and needs other roles to attack the box

[Cloud9]

13 minutes ago, skyzekaizo said:

I really feel like the F9 is too passive and needs other roles to attack the box

He is a False 9, ie. more of a playmaker role played in the 9 position rather than an out and out striker. The point is that the role is more of a goal threat than a traditional playmaker would suggest.

The role is not passive at all, but offers dynamic movement to drag opposition defenders out of position. 

[crusadertsar]

@skyzekaizo Personally I would never use a central striker who is not both strong and at least above average in jumping in any one-striker system. It just limits you too much in the type of chances that he won't be able to receive because of his limited physical attributes. Also a single striker tends to get "ganged up" on by defenders and every physical advantage he can get will help him. Even if your striker only has Jumping Reach of 12-13, if his Strength is at 16-17 level or more, it should compensate rather well. Ideally both should be above average though.

And of course Balance is also very important for central strikers.

Edited July 17 by crusadertsar

[Cloud9]

11 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

@skyzekaizo Personally I would never use a central striker who is not both strong and at least above average in jumping in any one-striker system. It just limits you too much in the type of chances that he won't be able to receive because of his limited physical attributes. Also a single striker tends to get "ganged up" on by defenders and every physical advantage he can get will help him. Even if your striker only has Jumping Reach of 12-13, if his Strength is at 16-17 level or more, it should compensate rather well. Ideally both should be above average though.

And of course Balance is also very important for central strikers.

Yea, I quite agree on this

I was trying to leave the door open for specialized approaches...but perhaps avoiding short solo forwards all together would be better suited (it's what I do as well on a solo 9). The only usual exception is on a F9...but then his "strike partner," or whoever he's facilitating space for (such as a SS) always has the aerial ability.

Certainly for any modern approach height/aerial ability has become almost mandatory on a striker. No more Aguero's it seems. 

IRL examples of CF's are a bit rare...I think you'd label Isak as one? Perhaps this new lad United have signed Zirkzee will be something similar (although I haven't seen him play much, I hear he is a unique profile). 

• To the importance of height, both strikers, Isak and Zirkzee, are 195cm (6"4) tall. I was trying to think of a small modern striker and couldn't come up with one. I had thought Adeyemi was quite short, but it turns out he's about the height of Ollie Watkins.

Edited July 18 by Cloud9

[Yellowbucket58]

I find getting wide players to score depends more on the player at your disposable rather than the tactic used. The only time I’ve really had success using a prolific goal scoring winger (25+ non-penalty goals) in any FM save was with Mbappe (20 pace/acc with crazing mental and technicals) and a Regen that had amazing technicals/mentals coupled with good pace/acc and monstrous aerial ability. Other than the type of players mentioned above you’ll be hard pressed to get a winger to consistently scoring 20+ np goals year after year.
 

If your wide player is getting anything north of 13+ non penalty goals coupled with some creativity I think that’s pretty great and in line with what world class wide players are producing nowadays. Other than maybe young Ronaldo, Messi and Mbappe don’t really think there’s been a consistently prolific wide player. Maybe Salah, but after that crazy first season he’s usually averaging around 16-19 non penalty goals, which I think is definitely reproducible  given you have a player of his ability in game.

 

Edited July 18 by Yellowbucket58

[NineCloudNine]

As a small addition to the discussion I’d question having the FB on attack. This might lead to overlaps and push Saka inside, or it might lead to White holding on to the ball too long and/or crowding the space you want Saka in.

It can be tempting to try to provide as much support as possible, but there is a balance to strike between cluttering the space and isolating the IF.

Traits also really help. Cuts inside (which he already has) and gets into box are important. Curls ball and places shots are also very Saka-like. Shoots from distance might encourage more speculative efforts.

I’d also train his finishing and composure. My personal view is that Saka’s current FM profile overstates his physical prowess and understates his goal threat. He does have some PA left, but not much, so I’d try to make sure that goes on his current FM weaknesses.

Edited July 25 by NineCloudNine