Ive accidentally signed Florian Wirtz for Everton. Please help

[allyc31]

Bit tongue in cheek title, I very much wanted to sign him but it wasn't planned. He's probably the best player ive ever managed to sign in any FM game, stats wise so im very excited but and determined to turn it into a success

For reference, I've lost DCL to the Saudi boys and I suspect Beto won't be for behind. Wirtz can play naturally in either midfield or Attacking midfield. Finally, I really, really dont want to play a gegnpress tactic and decided on Control Possession 

This is where I need help, I cannot find a good Complete Forward because Im Everton at the end of the first season and im now skint. So im either going to go with 

4-3-3 using a DLP on Attack and no player instructions

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or a 4-2-3-1 with a Pressing Forward on attack and the Defensive Midfielder on Support being asked to Hold Position to create the 3-2 rest defence

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For what its worth, here is Wirtz

 

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Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I dont get a lot of time to play FM, im quite excited and I dont want to waste half a season doing something is less than ideal. 

Im leaning towards to 4-2-3-1 as I think with the 4-3-3 I'd want someone breaking a head of the DLP and im not sure a Advanced Playmaker or Winger are the best suited for that? Could leave the opposition centre backs with a relatively easy job?

 

 

[CJ_Randell]

Are you saying Wirtz will be your striker? 

Or will you be keeping hold of Beto? 

[allyc31]

2 hours ago, CJ_Randell said:

Are you saying Wirtz will be your striker? 

Or will you be keeping hold of Beto? 

I managed to keep Beto so I went with the 4-3-3 with Beto being a complete forward

Only change I made to the base tactic is to invert the sides (so winger on the left instead of right etc) and drop the winger to a support so I could set Wirtz to Attack as he likes to run with the ball...though, looking at his balance and acceleration perhaps it best to keep him on support and put the attack back out wide.

 

Early in the season but not sure im 100% convinced so far. Still, dynamics are on their arse atm so will give it until around November

 

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, allyc31 said:

I managed to keep Beto so I went with the 4-3-3 with Beto being a complete forward

Only change I made to the base tactic is to invert the sides (so winger on the left instead of right etc) and drop the winger to a support so I could set Wirtz to Attack as he likes to run with the ball...though, looking at his balance and acceleration perhaps it best to keep him on support and put the attack back out wide.

 

Early in the season but not sure im 100% convinced so far. Still, dynamics are on their arse atm so will give it until around November

 

He will have more creative license as a 10 AP than as an 8 AP as he'll be able to stay high. A MEZ can also be a nice creative role w/an athletic profile for an 8.

• Both formations (4-2-3-1, 4-3-3) can work fine...but the 4-2-3-1 presents the ability to give him more a free role. 
• Onana + Garner could make for a very nice pivot while Wirtz does whatever he likes up top. A 4-2-3-1 also provides better cover for an IWB than a 4-3-3. Garner does not look like a natural holding 6, so I would recommend this route. 

A CF(a) w/Beto in the role will take away from Wirtz. If you want to build around one player then giving other players more concrete roles/duties is a good idea. 

• I believe Wirtz has quite a high ceiling so at 21 you can really develop him to play however you like. 

Edited July 30 by Cloud9

[nick1408]

For a 'regular' tactic I'd lean towards using the 4-2-3-1 for all the same reasons @Cloud9 said. James Garner can develop into an elite player (I've posted a screenshot below of my Everton game in 2029) and I'd lean towards playing him as a Vol-Su with a DM-Su.

 

 

If you want to try something slightly left of centre I had great success using Beto as a wide targetman. I did it with Everton and wrote about it here but it also depends on what players you have left. There is no reason why Wirtz wouldn't excell as a Mez-At (although I'd flip the tactic so the Mez-At was on the right). I note you are using Branthwaite as a LB so I assume Mykolenko is gone (or a backup) so that may be a reason to not consider a radical switch. It would also depend on how good your backup striker could operate as the main man.

 

Back onto the 4-2-3-1 I'd start with something like this:

Maybe the IW as an IF-At but that isn't too important - the reason I'd lean towards the AM-Su is a few reasons:

1. Wirtz isn't horrible at defending so I have no issues with him dropping deep
2. His decisions (14) Off The Ball (13) and Teamwork (13) are probably a bit low for what I'd want in an AP-At role. This should develop as he grows.
3. His flair (18) could really unlock defences from a deep area and also higher up the ground - especially with his agility and speed.
4. His workrate will also lead him to track back and push up strongly as an AM.
5. There is potential to cause yourself issues if he is a playmaker and is attracting the ball while being man-marked. As an AM players won't look to him unless he is earning it. He will earn it due to his quality as a player but also do to his work rate, anticipation and determination.

Remember, you still don't have a world class squad so don't try and play like Real Madrid. At least wit Witrz you are getting there 

[allyc31]

On 31/07/2024 at 08:58, nick1408 said:

For a 'regular' tactic I'd lean towards using the 4-2-3-1 for all the same reasons @Cloud9 said. James Garner can develop into an elite player (I've posted a screenshot below of my Everton game in 2029) and I'd lean towards playing him as a Vol-Su with a DM-Su.

 

 

If you want to try something slightly left of centre I had great success using Beto as a wide targetman. I did it with Everton and wrote about it here but it also depends on what players you have left. There is no reason why Wirtz wouldn't excell as a Mez-At (although I'd flip the tactic so the Mez-At was on the right). I note you are using Branthwaite as a LB so I assume Mykolenko is gone (or a backup) so that may be a reason to not consider a radical switch. It would also depend on how good your backup striker could operate as the main man.

 

Back onto the 4-2-3-1 I'd start with something like this:

Maybe the IW as an IF-At but that isn't too important - the reason I'd lean towards the AM-Su is a few reasons:

1. Wirtz isn't horrible at defending so I have no issues with him dropping deep
2. His decisions (14) Off The Ball (13) and Teamwork (13) are probably a bit low for what I'd want in an AP-At role. This should develop as he grows.
3. His flair (18) could really unlock defences from a deep area and also higher up the ground - especially with his agility and speed.
4. His workrate will also lead him to track back and push up strongly as an AM.
5. There is potential to cause yourself issues if he is a playmaker and is attracting the ball while being man-marked. As an AM players won't look to him unless he is earning it. He will earn it due to his quality as a player but also do to his work rate, anticipation and determination.

Remember, you still don't have a world class squad so don't try and play like Real Madrid. At least wit Witrz you are getting there 

This is great! Thank you so much!!!

Apologies, this is the first I’ve gotten back to it this week so looking forward to trying this  

yes, Myko had to go unfortunately due to the board being skint and me needing to buy some players! I still have Onana who seems to be more suited to the Vol role over? Garner (who I love in real life but low marking and bravery (8/12 respectively making him hard for me to use in fm). In saying that, you obviously have had good results with him. 
 

I do like the idea of using a wedge as @rashidi puts its so that’s where braithwaith plays. 
 

how did you find Patterson? His decisions are so I’m surprised he can find the stadium. 

[nick1408]

18 hours ago, allyc31 said:

This is great! Thank you so much!!!

Apologies, this is the first I’ve gotten back to it this week so looking forward to trying this  

yes, Myko had to go unfortunately due to the board being skint and me needing to buy some players! I still have Onana who seems to be more suited to the Vol role over? Garner (who I love in real life but low marking and bravery (8/12 respectively making him hard for me to use in fm). In saying that, you obviously have had good results with him. 
 

I do like the idea of using a wedge as @rashidi puts its so that’s where braithwaith plays. 
 

how did you find Patterson? His decisions are so I’m surprised he can find the stadium. 

Garner: I'd play him as the Vol for the reasons you noted for Onana; Garner doesn't fit playing a DM due to his bravery and marking. Onana just fits better there. In saying that; Garner does have the attributes to play Vol:

 

(Screenshots taken from my current game - three seasons in, not my Everton game)

Besides his marking everything else suits the role well.

 

Branthwaite: I haven't seen @Rashidi wedge defence (although I do follow him on YouTube). The reason I threw Branthwaite out wide was due to your original setup.

 

Patterson: All I asked him to do was support attack - keep it simple. You have enough at the back with three central defenders plus up to two DM's so even if Patterson makes a bad decision you should have cover. He is actually quite good at attacking so it really depends on what you want him to do. There is no reason you couldn't use him further up the pitch (in fact, Rashidi trained him to do exactly that). 

 

 

Keep us updated on how you go - I am really interested to see how it pans out with Wirth (and Everton as a whole).

[nick1408]

@allyc31 Sorry for posting twice but I thoguht I might give an insight into my current game.

Different shape but that isn't really important. I am using the DM-Vol setup (a bit more aggressive than I would use in a 4-2-3-1 but only because I have no wingers). My usual Vol is Stefano Sensi:

In every sense Garner is better but I chose him as I'm not too dependant on his defensive skills, bravery or his other low-rated skills, it's more what he can do for me and that is to be a smart operater in the middle of the park without too many defensive deficiencies (mentally). Both players are strong mentally in general and with three central defenders behind I have no qualms in letting him do his thing. There is a few caveats here - Sensi's work rate and stamina do rely on him having cover whereas Garner is fine in these areas. Garner is also a more balanced player (well, he is just better physically) so in my mind is better suited to be playing the ball rather than defending it as a DM.

 

Garner's strong mentals should more than cover for his marking deficiencies. Also, with three central defenders (2 x CD, 1 x IFB) plus a DM you should be able to cover Garner. The only thing I may consider is having Garner on the same side as the IFB but that would depend on if you want him to link up with the attacking right flank or if you want him supporting your winger on the left in lieu of a full back that will advance like roles other than an IFB.

 

Also, don't under-estimate the usefullness of a DM on support. He will still play through balls and generally be compitent on the ball if you put a player there like Onana. If you put a central defender-type player there he will play far more defensive (obviousally) and be more likely to need a more creative player to help them out. I use Daniel Daga as my DM-Su right now and he is averaging 0.17 expected assists/90 and 52.81 passes completed/90. What this tells me is his attacking output is giving me an assist roughly ever 5.2 games which from the DM-Su role I see as more than fine.

Edited August 4 by nick1408

[allyc31]

"Keep us updated on how you go - I am really interested to see how it pans out with Wirth (and Everton as a whole)."

In someways it's going well as we've had some big wins and we're sitting 5th in February (second season. Signed Wirtz at the start of the second season)

In other ways it's going awful. Football isn't great, we dont really have defined style, my forwards are really shooting (or getting service), writz isn't doing much either and all in all, its depressing

Below is a series of screenshots 

Current tactic

What id hope would happen

The idea was that we'd focus down the right with the IW, Vol and WB all on Support as well the AMC to create superiority on the right hand side. The winger on the left is on attack in an effort that, if the ball gets there he'll hopefully have a 1 on 1 against a full back, beat him and then fire a low ball into the box (hopefully from the edge of the box at the byeline)

What's actually happening

Not that. Lot of alright build up until it gets to near the box in which, one of the two DM (usually the vol tbf) walks on to a pass and batters it over the bar. Or the Winger will pick the wrong pass or not at all and shoot from a super tight angle. 

I dont watch on full matches or even comprehensive but extended. 

I dont expect to win every match but id want to see some of my ideas coming through

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Midfield data hub

 

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Forwards

 

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[allyc31]

FFS I've signed a 37 year old Messi now and he is demanding that he plays in AMC as an Advanced Playmaker Support. 

He's still really good and I got into the CL so I'll have plenty of games. Still, didn't like the 4-2-3-1 so I've decided to learn from that experience and pay Messi 90k a week

 

I couldn't resist! Its the first year in the new stadium, I've got the club Champions League football and Messi became available

Im not made of stone!

Edited August 6 by allyc31

[nick1408]

With the 4-2-3-1 first thing I would do is change RW to inside forward on support and RB to attack. I’d probably drop the mentality to positive. I would also consider the DM on support as there is cover behind. 
 

Re: Messi; I’d play him how he fits the tactic. He’s 37, doesn’t have much football left so I wouldn’t be changing to suit him.