Kurban Berdyev-Style: a lethal 5-3-2

[Rolotor]

Hello everyone! This is going to be my first SI post. I'm coming to you today since I've long been struggling with recreating a certain style of play that I thoroughly enjoy. 

There are no shortage of fantastic managers who have graced the sport throughout the years, each presenting a very different style and philosophy of play. Out of the bunch, the one I'm most drawn towards is Mourinho. Part of it is nationality bias (I'm Portuguese) and the other is a certain satisfaction I get from seeing big teams get humbled by supposedly smaller, weaker teams, something that Mourinho has certainly garnered a reputation for. But while Mourinho certainly gets a lot of coverage in every way possible and has always been among the greatests football 'celebrities', there is yet another slightly more obscure name that not that long ago shocked the footballing world: Kurban Berdyev.

Once a thriving manager and amongst the best in the world, Berdyev has fallen into obscurity in these last few years, likely due to the fact he never made 'the jump' outside of Russia or former Soviet countries, likely due to a language barrier. This may also be the reason why, unlike Mourinho, it is so difficult to find articles and detailed analysis on Berdyev's philosophy and tactics that are not in Russian, and thus not easily found/accessible.

One of the main people that introduced me to Berdyev was long-standing member of this forum @Novem9. 

He made a wonderful recreation of Berdyev's famous 5-3-2 at Rostov for FM20, which to this day remains one of my favourite FM tactics:

This post not only tells us about Kurban's story in the footballing world, but also the way his historic Rostov used to play, toppling giants such as Bayern along the way.

Being such a fan of the tactic, I started brainstorming ideas with Novem in order to try and recriate the tactic in FM24. 

To put it simply, and borrowing from @Novem9's explanation, the idea behind Berdyev's 5-3-2 is to play very pragmatically and keep a very solid defense. But unlike what it may seem, it's far from Parking the Bus. In fact, what made Kurban's tactic so special was its ability to beat any team, regardless of how big that team may be. I don't wish to just paraphrase Novem9's entire post above, so I recommend everyone to take a look at it! 

In any case, this is one of my many attempts at recreating the tactic:

 

Unfortunately, neither me nor Novem9 have had a lot of success with this tactic. 

The main idea behind this was to create a counter-attacking team. But it's not a 'rock-and-roll' type of football such as what you would see in most other counter-attacking teams, particularly Klopp's Liverpool. One of the main characteristic's of Berdyev is being very pragmatic with their defending and ball-retention, waiting for the very best moment to escalate play and start a counter. On the other hand, Berdyev teams display a very vertical brand of football. In two or three passes there is a goal, especially those long overhead passes bypassing the opposition defenders (no hoofball). And these two elements were the main reasoning behind me experimenting with the Cautious mentality and maximum Tempo.

One of the biggest issues that this tactic is facing, however, is the great amount of goals it's been leaking. One of the main goals of this tactic is defensive solidity, and I'm failling miserably in that regard.

Something that hasn't quite worked either is the two striker partnership. I've tried my best to recreate the Sardar Azmoun + Dmitri Poloz duo but find that many goals come from midfield rather than striker. 

Will all of this in mind, I'd love to hear the opinion of more experienced members of this forum on what can be improved in this tactic.

Thank you so much for your time and attention! 

[El Payaso]

For defensive stability, you have quite aggressive roles in the CWB and in your midfield trio.

The advanced playmaker and an attacking mezzala aren't going to do a great deal of work in defense while the ball-winning midfielder is a ball chaser instead of someone staying put and shielding the defensive line or covering for the aggressiveness of the complete wing-back. 

I would probably be looking the midfield roles again and maybe utilize a holding midfielder along with a BBM or Carrillero while the third one on the left hand side could be more aggressive. So maybe a CM(A). 

The inverted wing-back by the way doesn't work in a way it is supposed to when he doesn't have a ML or AML in front of him. This means that you should probably use one of your centre backs either as a libero or wide centre-back if you are looking for them to step forward and help out with the buildup phase. 

Have you tried a deep-lying forward alongside with the advanced forward? That combination has been working very well for me. 

[caco4003]

hace 15 horas, Rolotor dijo:

Hello everyone! This is going to be my first SI post. I'm coming to you today since I've long been struggling with recreating a certain style of play that I thoroughly enjoy. 

There are no shortage of fantastic managers who have graced the sport throughout the years, each presenting a very different style and philosophy of play. Out of the bunch, the one I'm most drawn towards is Mourinho. Part of it is nationality bias (I'm Portuguese) and the other is a certain satisfaction I get from seeing big teams get humbled by supposedly smaller, weaker teams, something that Mourinho has certainly garnered a reputation for. But while Mourinho certainly gets a lot of coverage in every way possible and has always been among the greatests football 'celebrities', there is yet another slightly more obscure name that not that long ago shocked the footballing world: Kurban Berdyev.

Once a thriving manager and amongst the best in the world, Berdyev has fallen into obscurity in these last few years, likely due to the fact he never made 'the jump' outside of Russia or former Soviet countries, likely due to a language barrier. This may also be the reason why, unlike Mourinho, it is so difficult to find articles and detailed analysis on Berdyev's philosophy and tactics that are not in Russian, and thus not easily found/accessible.

One of the main people that introduced me to Berdyev was long-standing member of this forum @Novem9. 

He made a wonderful recreation of Berdyev's famous 5-3-2 at Rostov for FM20, which to this day remains one of my favourite FM tactics:

This post not only tells us about Kurban's story in the footballing world, but also the way his historic Rostov used to play, toppling giants such as Bayern along the way.

Being such a fan of the tactic, I started brainstorming ideas with Novem in order to try and recriate the tactic in FM24. 

To put it simply, and borrowing from @Novem9's explanation, the idea behind Berdyev's 5-3-2 is to play very pragmatically and keep a very solid defense. But unlike what it may seem, it's far from Parking the Bus. In fact, what made Kurban's tactic so special was its ability to beat any team, regardless of how big that team may be. I don't wish to just paraphrase Novem9's entire post above, so I recommend everyone to take a look at it! 

In any case, this is one of my many attempts at recreating the tactic:

 

Unfortunately, neither me nor Novem9 have had a lot of success with this tactic. 

The main idea behind this was to create a counter-attacking team. But it's not a 'rock-and-roll' type of football such as what you would see in most other counter-attacking teams, particularly Klopp's Liverpool. One of the main characteristic's of Berdyev is being very pragmatic with their defending and ball-retention, waiting for the very best moment to escalate play and start a counter. On the other hand, Berdyev teams display a very vertical brand of football. In two or three passes there is a goal, especially those long overhead passes bypassing the opposition defenders (no hoofball). And these two elements were the main reasoning behind me experimenting with the Cautious mentality and maximum Tempo.

One of the biggest issues that this tactic is facing, however, is the great amount of goals it's been leaking. One of the main goals of this tactic is defensive solidity, and I'm failling miserably in that regard.

Something that hasn't quite worked either is the two striker partnership. I've tried my best to recreate the Sardar Azmoun + Dmitri Poloz duo but find that many goals come from midfield rather than striker. 

Will all of this in mind, I'd love to hear the opinion of more experienced members of this forum on what can be improved in this tactic.

Thank you so much for your time and attention! 

I would try maybe with a defensive mentality and standard trigger press or even lower since from what i understand you want to be patient and wait for the exact moment to hit them on the break. 

Also i suggest you to take a look at this videos as i think they could help you a lot with what you are trying to build

 

 

[Rolotor]

11 horas atrás, El Payaso disse:

For defensive stability, you have quite aggressive roles in the CWB and in your midfield trio.

The advanced playmaker and an attacking mezzala aren't going to do a great deal of work in defense while the ball-winning midfielder is a ball chaser instead of someone staying put and shielding the defensive line or covering for the aggressiveness of the complete wing-back. 

I would probably be looking the midfield roles again and maybe utilize a holding midfielder along with a BBM or Carrillero while the third one on the left hand side could be more aggressive. So maybe a CM(A). 

The inverted wing-back by the way doesn't work in a way it is supposed to when he doesn't have a ML or AML in front of him. This means that you should probably use one of your centre backs either as a libero or wide centre-back if you are looking for them to step forward and help out with the buildup phase. 

Have you tried a deep-lying forward alongside with the advanced forward? That combination has been working very well for me. 

Thank you so much for your answer!

Initially my choice of roles was very much motivated by the player's IRL positioning. And also going by what FM thinks Berdyev's formation is.

 

For the defenders, the star was César Navas. Navas's role was to organize the defense, intercept passes, and initiate counter-attacks with precise long balls. Pretty much a Ball Playing Defender, I think. He was flanked by two other defenders who were tasked with staying compact and providing cover to the wing-backs, especially when the team was transitioning from attack to defense. They were instructed to stay close to their respective flanks to help deal with wingers or overlapping full-backs.

The two wingbacks are a bit of a mistery for me. On the one hand, we had Fyodor Kudryashov on the left often operated as a more defensive wing-back, staying deeper and holding his position. He contributed to the team's compact shape, providing cover for the center-backs and limiting the opponent's opportunities on that flank. He could become more central at times (hence the IWB) but not always. As for the right side, Denis Terentyev had more freedom to push forward, functioning almost as a CWB. He would support the attack by providing width, delivering crosses, and occasionally getting into advanced positions to help create chances, while also tracking back quickly to maintain the team's solidity when out of possession.

 

For the midfield, my reasoning for the DM role (BWM) is that Berdyev employed a tenacious 'bulldog' style defensive midfielder (Sibaya at Rubin and Gaţcan at Rostov). Gaţcan was the engine of the midfield, tasked with breaking up opposition play and providing defensive cover. He operated as a tough, aggressive presence in the center, often engaging in tackles and interceptions to regain possession. His primary focus was on disrupting the opponent’s rhythm, shielding the backline, and supporting the defense in both central and wide areas. Looking at the positioning on Berdyev's FM page, the DM seems to be deeper, which seems to point towards a Half-Back. Could also be an Anchor Man, but I tend to be a bit biased towards HB. I essentially need someone breaking up play and supporting the backline. 

Then, the right CM was Christian Noboa, the creative hub of the team who dictated the tempo from a deeper position. He was responsible for recycling possession, controlling the flow of the game, and delivering accurate long balls to initiate counter-attacks. Noboa’s role required excellent vision and passing ability, as he often looked to release the forwards quickly or find the wing-backs in space. Seems like a DLP(d) to me.

As for the left side CM we had Khoren Bayramyan, who I see more as a BBM than a Mezzala, tbh. He was expected to contribute defensively by pressing opponents and helping in the central areas, while also making late runs into the box to join the attack.

 

Finally, we have the forward duo, Azmoun and Poloz. I really like your idea of AF + DLF. Azmoun's primary role was to stretch the opposition’s defense by making runs in behind and exploiting spaces using his pace and scoring ability, whereas Poloz often dropped deeper to link the midfield and attack and hold up the ball for Azmoun or the midfielders.

 

Based on all of this, what would you make on the roles? I'm sorry for the wall of text and thank you for your time!

(I loved your Catenaccio post by the way!)

[Rolotor]

8 horas atrás, caco4003 disse:

I would try maybe with a defensive mentality and standard trigger press or even lower since from what i understand you want to be patient and wait for the exact moment to hit them on the break. 

Also i suggest you to take a look at this videos as i think they could help you a lot with what you are trying to build

 

 

Thank you for your answer. I'll look into those videos and see if I can work something out.

[Jakey8]

Any updates on this ?