The ultimate guide to training

[BillyM19]

Hi all,

Please could someone send me a link or guide me towards how I should be approaching training for my saves. In the past, this is one thing I've found tricky to set up, so don't really give much focus to it.

Details on how to set up training for my first XI squad but also how to train up young players so then I can sell them on would be amazing!

[wakesta]

Check out FMwonderkids on x, brilliant guide on this subject.

[Craigus89]

If you want to really dig into this then this is the only answer: 

It's a 9 part series, from memory you can watch the last one if you just want the answer. It is much simpler than you might think, and as with most of the content in this game, 90% of the training sessions are just window dressing. The best schedule for development looks something like this:

Edited August 27 by Craigus89

[Cloud9]

6 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

If you want to really dig into this then this is the only answer: 

It's a 9 part series, from memory you can watch the last one if you just want the answer. It is much simpler than you might think, and as with most of the content in this game, 90% of the training sessions are just window dressing. The best schedule for development looks something like this:

I don't agree with this, the blue sessions are very impactful but this is an oversimplification. To go into detail a little: you don't need two Match Practice training sessions a week. Additionally, the other training sessions are useful, as they will help you target specific attributes you'd like to use in your systems!

• A lot of the tests by this YouTuber end with proclamations like this that are simply untrue (for example that step up and drop off don't do anything etc etc.); so I would take any of these "conclusions" with a heavy dose of skepticism. 

Using something like this one week would be fine, but doing it every week certainly would be far from optimal for development. I also do a complete training session the day after matches and manually give the day off to any player who received a match rating. It is more about pushing the squad heavily in pre-season and then moving to a series of training sessions that can develop the attributes you're looking for w/out running the squad into the ground dependent on how many games played. Either overplaying or overtraining (or a combination of both) is one of the surefire ways to plateau a players development.

• I would highly recommend adding Fatigue, Injury Risk and Match Load into your selection view when deciding how hard to push the players in training that week (past pre-season). 

Keep in mind that the number one indicator for over 18 players will be sufficient game time. On Fm24, the personality of the player will be particularly impactful for development in the 23-28 range. 

Edited August 28 by Cloud9

[fc.cadoni]

FM for Dummies

====

 

[Craigus89]

6 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I don't agree with this, the blue sessions are very impactful but this is an oversimplification. To go into detail a little: you don't need two Match Practice training sessions a week. Additionally, the other training sessions are useful, as they will help you target specific attributes you'd like to use in your systems!

• A lot of the tests by this YouTuber end with proclamations like this that are simply untrue (for example that step up and drop off don't do anything etc etc.); so I would take any of these "conclusions" with a heavy dose of skepticism. 

Using something like this one week would be fine, but doing it every week certainly would be far from optimal for development. I also do a complete training session the day after matches and manually give the day off to any player who received a match rating. It is more about pushing the squad heavily in pre-season and then moving to a series of training sessions that can develop the attributes you're looking for w/out running the squad into the ground dependent on how many games played. Either overplaying or overtraining (or a combination of both) is one of the surefire ways to plateau a players development.

• I would highly recommend adding Fatigue, Injury Risk and Match Load into your selection view when deciding how hard to push the players in training that week (past pre-season). 

Keep in mind that the number one indicator for over 18 players will be sufficient game time. On Fm24, the personality of the player will be particularly impactful for development in the 23-28 range. 

That's all fine, but what makes you say the stuff he says is wrong? The videos are very comprehensive, and are based on in game testing. Have you got any other evidence to support what you are saying?

I've been implementing the schedule above since the videos came out and to be honest, have not seen a noticeable difference, certainly not a drop off in development though, nor injury increase etc.

[Falahk]

I would highly recommend you to have a look at @Rashidi 's training guides on his youtube channel, bustthenet gaming, his approach to training have always been very similar to mine and he is much better at explaining it then I am 

[Cloud9]

20 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

That's all fine, but what makes you say the stuff he says is wrong? The videos are very comprehensive, and are based on in game testing. Have you got any other evidence to support what you are saying?

I've been implementing the schedule above since the videos came out and to be honest, have not seen a noticeable difference, certainly not a drop off in development though, nor injury increase etc.

The main issue is that the YouTuber runs tests that are incomplete, or missing key variables, and then declares facts about the game that others spread. It's misinformation and plays into the nonsense you hear frequently; "You can only play attacking football on FM," "Training session X doesn't do anything," or "TI X has no impact" etc etc. 

I've linked the manual which is a strong source, and an actually accurate one, for anyone looking to learn a specific aspect of the game:

Edited August 29 by Cloud9

[Craigus89]

4 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

The main issue is that the YouTuber runs tests that are incomplete, or missing key variables, and then declares facts about the game that others spread. It's misinformation and plays into the nonsense you hear frequently; "You can only play attacking football on FM," "Training session X doesn't do anything," or "TI X has no impact" etc etc. 

I've linked the manual which is a strong source, and an actually accurate one, for anyone looking to learn a specific aspect of the game:

Once again, specifically what are the errors in the video series on training? How is it incomplete or misinformed? 

It's all well and good just dismissing things off hand that we might not wish were true, but there is a big problem of obfuscation in this game, seemingly intentional by the developers, and videos like the one I linked do a much better job of showing how things actually work than the manual. 

[coach vahid]

There are as many coaches as there are ways of seeing training.

The results will depend on several variables.

The infrastructures, the coaches, the results, the players (personnality, harmony in squad...) and many others stuff.

You can imagine how you want your players develop. Maybe more physical, maybe more technical or on mental.

You can imagine how you want your team play. Maybe if your want to play out defense or work ball into box , using the adequat sessions will help.

Of course, it's not forbidden to push developpement hard. But if your players can't train because, injured, it will be complicate that they progess.

 

[coach vahid]

It's a private thing. Something I'm not proud of. But I like how I would imagine it if it were reality. My reality.

First of all, the youngsters in your academy. I like to think of it as "no roles, no homework", just working and working on the fundamentals. You can't say that a 15-year-old winger won't be our future winger 3 years later.

Perhaps adding a focus on individual training on a 3 month rotation on physical attributes, technical attributes and mental attributes might be an interesting thing

 

For my first team, the most interesting thing will be to focus training on how I want my players to play. How can you imagine a team that doesn't work the way it organizes its defense or attack?

We divide into 2 sections:

- what we do when we don't have the ball (pressing...)

- what we do when we have the ball (take our time...)

For individual training, just their roles. I don't imagine all the players work after their training sessions.

I used another one more focused on progression even for the first team. I imagine it when I'm more focused on an "academy save"

If this can help in your thinking.

I used the FM workout planner to support my point. Thanks to its creator, of course.

Edited August 29 by coach vahid

[Cloud9]

4 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

Once again, specifically what are the errors in the video series on training? How is it incomplete or misinformed? 

It's all well and good just dismissing things off hand that we might not wish were true, but there is a big problem of obfuscation in this game, seemingly intentional by the developers, and videos like the one I linked do a much better job of showing how things actually work than the manual. 

I have already specifically mentioned the issues at hand above. All of the falsehoods I mention earlier come from those videos. 

Here is a link debunking the Step up or Drop Off More video I mentioned, w/a direct answer from SI on how it works. 

On if you can only play attacking football...this one is quite simple. The answer is that any well put together tactic can work well on FM. I will refer you to this thread:

[Craigus89]

46 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

I have already specifically mentioned the issues at hand above. All of the falsehoods I mention earlier come from those videos. 

Here is a link debunking the Step up or Drop Off More video I mentioned, w/a direct answer from SI on how it works. 

On if you can only play attacking football...this one is quite simple. The answer is that any well put together tactic can work well on FM. I will refer you to this thread:

Okay, you are bringing up other things that I have not even mentioned. Why are you talking about step up/drop off? Why are you talking about not being able to play anything other than attacking football?

I think you are confusing me with someone with the usual complaints about the match engine/devs/whatever and have defaulted into defending the game at any cost. You're literally strawmanning my point.

So for the third time now, what specifically about the training videos is incorrect and the conclusions about the most effective sessions?

I'm not trying to be combative or a dick by the way, just in case it appears that way. There is so much confusion around this game, it's too easy to just repeat things we've heard to be the case as you say, but that cuts both ways and I'm much more likely trust empirical evidence.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Craigus89 said:

Okay, you are bringing up other things that I have not even mentioned. Why are you talking about step up/drop off? Why are you talking about not being able to play anything other than attacking football?

I think you are confusing me with someone with the usual complaints about the match engine/devs/whatever and have defaulted into defending the game at any cost. You're literally strawmanning my point.

So for the third time now, what specifically about the training videos is incorrect and the conclusions about the most effective sessions?

I'm not trying to be combative or a dick by the way, just in case it appears that way. There is so much confusion around this game, it's too easy to just repeat things we've heard to be the case as you say, but that cuts both ways and I'm much more likely trust empirical evidence.

He is simply showing other examples of why this YouTuber that you mentioned is not reliable when it comes to FM knowledge. Alot of the things he talks about are just assertions and not properly tested. Reason to take his training advice with a grain of salt. 

[FalkoNguyen]

On 29/08/2024 at 23:58, crusadertsar said:

He is simply showing other examples of why this YouTuber that you mentioned is not reliable when it comes to FM knowledge. Alot of the things he talks about are just assertions and not properly tested. Reason to take his training advice with a grain of salt.

He might be wrong with the approach to test step-up/drop-off; however, it does not automatically make everything the YouTuber produces wrong. @Craigus89 simply point out none of the comment answer the question he ask, which is what is the incorrect point of the training video. Some of the commenters here treat this video like when you are in the Christian church and it like heliocentrism. Are we gonna believe everything we'd been told or we gonna ask for evidence?

[Dr Naysay]

8 hours ago, FalkoNguyen said:

He might be wrong with the approach to test step-up/drop-off; however, it does not automatically make everything the YouTuber produces wrong. @Craigus89 simply point out none of the comment answer the question he ask, which is what is the incorrect point of the training video. Some of the commenters here treat this video like when you are in the Christian church and it like heliocentrism. Are we gonna believe everything we'd been told or we gonna ask for evidence?

The problem for me is he said "this is the only answer" and then followed with "90% of training sessions are just window dressing"  One must assume that this inference is drawn from the Youtuber in question and it's not correct in my opinion. There have been dozens of training vids made, some by mods on this forum who are more aware of what goes on under the hood that directly contradict the statements made here and also from my experience personally, so I would suggest that the incorrect point of the video is that other players who use those 90% window dressing sessions and are having amazing results developing  players must be doing something right. I would also think that a YouTuber who calls himself "Evidence Based Research" and has already been debunked once is not a good look for him credibility wise but I can appreciate that there are more than one way to skin a cat in this game with regards to training because I have seen a variety of methods work.

[Craigus89]

48 minutes ago, Dr Naysay said:

The problem for me is he said "this is the only answer" and then followed with "90% of training sessions are just window dressing"  One must assume that this inference is drawn from the Youtuber in question and it's not correct in my opinion. There have been dozens of training vids made, some by mods on this forum who are more aware of what goes on under the hood that directly contradict the statements made here and also from my experience personally, so I would suggest that the incorrect point of the video is that other players who use those 90% window dressing sessions and are having amazing results developing  players must be doing something right. I would also think that a YouTuber who calls himself "Evidence Based Research" and has already been debunked once is not a good look for him credibility wise but I can appreciate that there are more than one way to skin a cat in this game with regards to training because I have seen a variety of methods work.

The OP asked for the ultimate guide on training. That is why I said it was the only answer. I've not seen anyone else present as much evidence as the guy in that video series, people on the forums often refer back to conventional wisdom around training and many other things, and assume it is correct without neccesarily testing it or having seen evidence for themselves. See: the debate about physical attributes and the way that the game is defended by many long-time users who would rather just dismiss and try and pick holes in evidence that is presented rather than look at the evidence and draw their own conclusions. One has to assume they just couldn't bare to think that the game is flawed.

At no point did I say that the other 90% of the training sessions that I referred to as window dressing don't do anything. Training is very hard to get wrong, and you'll still get decen't development doing most things. We are INCREDIBLY deep into min-max territory here, and if that is what OP is interested in then the video series is interesting. 

EDIT: and yes, as the other poster says, still nothing to actually show why the video series on training is flawed. Just ad hominem arguments which are entirely unhelpful. 

Edited September 2 by Craigus89

[Dr Naysay]

I've watched all his training videos, I have seen his evidence and I don't agree with your assertion that you made that it's the ultimate guide on training. I have seen a ton of videos and posts covering training with in depth testing achieve phenomenal results with training sessions that look very different to what was posted. Just because this is the most thoroughly tested training you have seen doesn't make it the most definitive and suggesting that people are close minded to this because they are old timers who refuse to believe the game is flawed or expand their minds to new ideas is also wrong(especially on the tactics forum) and not helpful to a respectful discourse.

[Craigus89]

You can disagree and say it's an incorrect assertion about users on this forum, but now we're both just stating the other is wrong without saying why. Let's not take this any further as it will only devolve.

 

[caco4003]

Hi, im trying to implement Bielsa´s style on fm and i think i already have the tactic nailed down. What i think i need some help is with creating the trainin sessions that replicate this style (im not asking for whats better in game but mostly what is accurate to real life). This is what i have so far but i think its not enough. what would you guys change/add to make this more accurate to what murderball was at leeds?

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:

I've watched all his training videos, I have seen his evidence and I don't agree with your assertion that you made that it's the ultimate guide on training. I have seen a ton of videos and posts covering training with in depth testing achieve phenomenal results with training sessions that look very different to what was posted. Just because this is the most thoroughly tested training you have seen doesn't make it the most definitive and suggesting that people are close minded to this because they are old timers who refuse to believe the game is flawed or expand their minds to new ideas is also wrong(especially on the tactics forum) and not helpful to a respectful discourse.

Exactly! The other big issue with that training series is that it doesn't focus on developing attributes to fit a style of play that the manager is looking to implement. This is a huge component on why the variety of sessions available are so useful.

2 hours ago, caco4003 said:

Hi, im trying to implement Bielsa´s style on fm and i think i already have the tactic nailed down. What i think i need some help is with creating the trainin sessions that replicate this style (im not asking for whats better in game but mostly what is accurate to real life). This is what i have so far but i think its not enough. what would you guys change/add to make this more accurate to what murderball was at leeds?

I would recommend looking at the attributes that would fit a man for man high pressing system when picking your sessions for a Bielsa system

Aside from that, good training IRL is staggered (ie. 1 intense day followed by a day of reduced intensity to recover before ramping up the intensity again). These are the bars at the bottom of the screen ranging from dark green to red. 

This is exert is from the Athletic, but it gives a nice insight into just how high intensity you'd be looking for your murderball sessions to be.

And another, to give some context to how that will translate to the style of play itself. Utilizing a combinations of PIs and OIs will help with the man to man pressing asked for by the Argentine.  

Edited September 2 by Cloud9

[caco4003]

En 2/9/2024 a las 12:18, Cloud9 dijo:

Exactly! The other big issue with that training series is that it doesn't focus on developing attributes to fit a style of play that the manager is looking to implement. This is a huge component on why the variety of sessions available are so useful.

I would recommend looking at the attributes that would fit a man for man high pressing system when picking your sessions for a Bielsa system

Aside from that, good training IRL is staggered (ie. 1 intense day followed by a day of reduced intensity to recover before ramping up the intensity again). These are the bars at the bottom of the screen ranging from dark green to red. 

This is exert is from the Athletic, but it gives a nice insight into just how high intensity you'd be looking for your murderball sessions to be.

And another, to give some context to how that will translate to the style of play itself. Utilizing a combinations of PIs and OIs will help with the man to man pressing asked for by the Argentine.  

Thank you so much for your answer, this is what i came up with (probably a lot more intense that what any normal person would do but, Marcelo isnt exaclty someone normal lmao). I´ll probably still need to tweak this a lot 

[fc.cadoni]

13 minutes ago, caco4003 said:

Thank you so much for your answer, this is what i came up with (probably a lot more intense that what any normal person would do but, Marcelo isnt exaclty someone normal lmao). I´ll probably still need to tweak this a lot 

Do you hate your players? 

[FalkoNguyen]

On 02/09/2024 at 22:18, Cloud9 said:

The other big issue with that training series is that it doesn't focus on developing attributes to fit a style of play that the manager is looking to implement. This is a huge component on why the variety of sessions available are so useful.

I have to disagree with the idea of using general training to fit a particular style. Firstly, for detailed attribute adjustments, using training for specific positions and individual sessions makes much more sense than a generic schedule that affects all players. When training young players, I aim for balanced improvement in technical, mental, and physical areas, while also addressing any weaknesses. A balance general training schedule suits that purpose. Second, when recruiting players, I prefer selecting those who already align with my desired position and style. Trying to train a player who is drastically different from my style can be a time-consuming process that detracts from the enjoyment of managing the team. Lastly, due to min/maxing with training sessions, the schedule is among the least used I've encountered. It allows room for rest and customization to suit any style you prefer. I would argue that if you are a newbie, this training schedule is a good base you can build upon.

[Craigus89]

4 hours ago, caco4003 said:

Thank you so much for your answer, this is what i came up with (probably a lot more intense that what any normal person would do but, Marcelo isnt exaclty someone normal lmao). I´ll probably still need to tweak this a lot 

When I say it's hard to get training wrong in FM .... this is really testing that statement.

This is almost guaranteed to cause more injuries, and the attributes that it focuses on will be incredibly skewed.

[caco4003]

hace 4 horas, fc.cadoni dijo:

Do you hate your players? 

No one stops running until i say so lmao

hace 38 minutos, Craigus89 dijo:

When I say it's hard to get training wrong in FM .... this is really testing that statement.

This is almost guaranteed to cause more injuries, and the attributes that it focuses on will be incredibly skewed.

Well, like im said im trying to go more for a realistic apporach to what Marcelo did at Leeds rather than whats good in the game. He suffered from injury problems there and if thats something ill have to face too so be it. That said, if you have a reccomendation on what can i change to this and still keep it really intense im all ears

[Craigus89]

 @caco4003 I mean, if you are essentially role playing then do whatever you feel is true to what you want to do. But if you want something with a Bielsa flavour but something that could be effective in game without creating overload on the players and has a decent spread of attribute focus I might go for something more like this:

 

Edited September 3 by Craigus89