What did we actually learn about the FM World Cup

[CKBrahMa]

DISCLAIMER : this is not a rant !

The FIFAe World Cup featuring Football Manager is designed to highlight all aspects of Football Manager and requires players to experience the thrill of managing a football team under pressure in their unique style.

The format ensures a fair and exciting competition for the 20 players representing 19 different FIFA member associations.

Like any manager, each set of players will hold official press conferences and interviews, addressing media and community feedback, tackling all challenges that involve being a manager.

At the end, the Indonesian team (manager: Ichsan "Miracle" Taufiq ; Assistant Manager: Manar "wednesday" Hidayat) won the very first FM World Cup.

But in the end, what did we learn (especially from our new world champions) ?

- 4231 Gegenpress is still "meta", and some may say a bit overpowered,

- On the flanks, you want players with pace, acceleration & dribble. All the rest is secondary (it doesn't mean it's useless),

- On the center (CD, M (c), AM (c)), you want player with jumping reach so they can win aerial duels,

- For your ST (c), you want a player with Jumping reach, pace & acceleration, all the rest is secondary,

- Out of possession, it's high block all the way, very intensive pressing, counter pressing, counter,

- High tempo & short passing,

- Moral IS a game changer,

- Corner at first post is still OP compared to other options,

- Fatigue is important on the long run.

 

Pretty much all I learned after this competition.

My opinion : I'm a bit sad that, even at the highest level (at least, officially), the Meta is that is that necessary to win.

Of course, you can play as you wish, you can try to replicate IRL football as much as you want (and we have the chance to have great Content Creator that doesn't "break" the game), but, for me, it's a shame that in the current state of the ME, Terem Moffi is a "better" player in FM just because he has pace, accelaration & jumping reach (which Messi never had).

 

What are your thoughts ?

[El Payaso]

It's always going to be a lot about meta things when you talk about success on Football Manager. This is also why I have zero interest in these kind of events or following streamers or YouTubers as these simply give a really bad image of the game.

Seeing things like this also often eat out lot of the motivation for me to play the game. Luckily that is usually temporary as I know that the game can be approached in a different way which also give you a totally different kind of gaming experience. 

[Dbuk1]

We learned it’s not an esport. There is no skill gap when you know what tactic and instructions are best or that work best against other tactics and instructions. Once you know this what is there left to do? It was funny listening to all the hype about these are the best players and if they could transfer their skill set to the real world of football. Then watch them play PvP and do absolutely nothing (except click encourage entire team) as South Africa in the semi final and Germany in the final get smashed. The next Pep? I think not.

[thats life]

I’ve just tested the winning tactic Miracle he called it and I’m impressed with it currently using it with Brighton and won all 4 games scoring 17 and conceding 2

[Overmars]

1 hour ago, Dbuk1 said:

We learned it’s not an esport. There is no skill gap when you know what tactic and instructions are best or that work best against other tactics and instructions. Once you know this what is there left to do? It was funny listening to all the hype about these are the best players and if they could transfer their skill set to the real world of football. Then watch them play PvP and do absolutely nothing (except click encourage entire team) as South Africa in the semi final and Germany in the final get smashed. The next Pep? I think not.

I agree with you, and yet in spite of this, there were several managers who seemed to think that each manager had control over their outcome. In my opinion, almost everything came down to luck because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to game the FM AI.

[Dbuk1]

The winning tactic from Indonesia is a tried and stress tested tactic that is easy to find online….its the best tactic. They had an advantage because the other players were playing sub optimal tactics and didn’t use opposition instructions correctly. The managers had minimal input during the matches because they were used to destroying the AI and were waiting for that outcome to come back around. If this statement is false, why did they not change tactics, or switch up roles and instructions when losing by multiple goals? They have been used to playing the AI or poor PvP players that have never searched the web. If it is an esport then we will see the same guys qualify again and again when its opened up to 10000 entrants

Edited September 2 by Dbuk1

[Lira95]

hace 57 minutos, Dbuk1 dijo:

The winning tactic from Indonesia is a tried and stress tested tactic that is easy to find online….its the best tactic. They had an advantage because the other players were playing sub optimal tactics and didn’t use opposition instructions correctly. The managers had minimal input during the matches because they were used to destroying the AI and were waiting for that outcome to come back around. If this statement is false, why did they not change tactics, or switch up roles and instructions when losing by multiple goals? They have been used to playing the AI or poor PvP players that have never searched the web. If it was an esport then we will see the same guys qualify again and again when its opened up to 10000 entrants

Also, some of them became famous by testing tactics using the editor. When they had to play without it, it didn't go well.

[CFuller]

What did we learn from the FM World Cup? Not a whole lot, really.

On 01/09/2024 at 20:21, CKBrahMa said:

- 4231 Gegenpress is still "meta", and some may say a bit overpowered,

I don't think it's "overpowered". I just think it's easier to set up and have success with. And take it from me - it is possible to set up a 4-2-3-1 and/or a high-pressing tactic and still fail miserably. 

I'm sure most FMers want to be attack-minded, want to dominate possession, want to be like Klopp or Guardiola. But it was quite disappointing to see pretty much everyone at the FMWC (as far as I was aware) playing an intense counter-pressing tactic and massively overachieving with teams like Sporting, Brighton and Dinamo Zagreb.

On 01/09/2024 at 20:21, CKBrahMa said:

- Moral IS a game changer,

Morale has always been important in Football Manager and in football. Happier teams play better and win more.

But I do think it's a bit too easy to keep morale high. If you can't, it's either because your man-management skills are hopeless, or you're actively going out of your way to deliberately upset your players.

On 01/09/2024 at 20:21, CKBrahMa said:

- Corner at first post is still OP compared to other options,

Now this I do agree with.

On my FM24 save with Millwall, I had a 6ft 7in centre-back who scored 15 goals from corners in a season - and I wasn't using any kind of corner exploit I was aware of. I reported it in the Bug Tracker, and I'm not sure SI ever responded to it. Obviously they didn't fix it if Coates and Badiashile were able to score 90+ corner goals for WorkTheSpace's Sporting team in just 3 seasons. 

This is something I really hope gets addressed on FM25.

On 01/09/2024 at 20:21, CKBrahMa said:

My opinion : I'm a bit sad that, even at the highest level (at least, officially), the Meta is that is that necessary to win.

I don't think the 'meta'  is necessary to win as such.

Other managers way more tactically astute than myself (and any of the content creators at the FMWC) have been able to build successful tactics that aren't the same old boring 4-2-3-1 high-tempo gegenpress. You can do well with a low block, but you need to really know what you're doing tactically. And when you can just download a SUPER MEGA BEAST TACTIC that can win the Champions League with Brighton in 3 seasons, I'm sure many managers would take the easier option.

It would have been more interesting if one of the FMWC managers had actually had the courage to put together a solid tactic that wasn't the same as the other 19 managers were using. If there was to be another FMWC next year, I'd like to see the organisers put together some challenges - or even some rules - to encourage more tactical diversity, because this year's tournament felt like a Premier League where every manager was Jurgen Klopp.

[Craigus89]

Agree with the above post from @CFuller. None of this is new stuff for people who have been playing the game for a long time, it did serve to sharpen the focus on how the game can become pretty stale. This highlights the need for a refresh to an extent, hopefully FM25 can deliver some of that, or at least shake things up a little. 

The other thing worth mentioning that is almost entirely ignored when many people discuss tactics is that squad building goes hand in hand with tactics. People can have success with plug-and-plays as the 'meta' tactics can serve to mask some laziness on the managers part if they aren't getting stuck into squad composition. Success with different systems, such as more defensive ones, counter attacking, catenaccio etc, is often skewed much more heavily towards having the right players. 

My most successful season was last version when I had 3 seasons of devastatingly good 442 low-block counter attacking football nd massively over achieved. I did have the perfect squad for it though, a little luck to start with but I soon saw the patterns and was able to refine it further and had a squad built entirely for that style of play. I don't think we would have had the same success with a plug-and-play gegenpress tactic, but that's just a hunch, and I could well be wrong. But who cares. 

But yes, the hill I'll die on is that squad building is more important than tactics in this game.

Edited September 3 by Craigus89

[Dbuk1]

2 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

Agree with the above post from @CFuller. None of this is new stuff for people who have been playing the game for a long time, it did serve to sharpen the focus on how the game can become pretty stale. This highlights the need for a refresh to an extent, hopefully FM25 can deliver some of that, or at least shake things up a little. 

The other thing worth mentioning that is almost entirely ignored when many people discuss tactics is that squad building goes hand in hand with tactics. People can have success with plug-and-plays as the 'meta' tactics can serve to mask some laziness on the managers part if they aren't getting stuck into squad composition. Success with different systems, such as more defensive ones, counter attacking, catenaccio etc, is often skewed much more heavily towards having the right players. 

My most successful season was last version when I had 3 seasons of devastatingly good 442 low-block counter attacking football nd massively over achieved. I did have the perfect squad for it though, a little luck to start with but I soon saw the patterns and was able to refine it further and had a squad built entirely for that style of play. I don't think we would have had the same success with a plug-and-play gegenpress tactic, but that's just a hunch, and I could well be wrong. But who cares. 

But yes, the hill I'll die on is that squad building is more important than tactics in this game.

Players are the most important thing in football so obviously agree

[Aoyao]

The game is a game.

[lied90]

On 02/09/2024 at 21:36, Overmars said:

I agree with you, and yet in spite of this, there were several managers who seemed to think that each manager had control over their outcome.

They kinda have to do that during the stream to make it entertaining. If everyone admitted that it's just meta tactics+meta players and pray there would be nothing to talk about.

[Delial]

It's not really surprising to see a 4231 high pressing gegenpress with tons of TIs and 10 attack duties on pitch win the FM World Cup as we know that this kind of tactic often overperform. Why would the players try to make something more realistic if it's not working all the time?

What's sad is that the game is allowing this kind of "cheating" tactic. FM is supposed to be a simulation and, even though it's a game, it is sometimes frustrating to try to make realistic tactics while pushing every buttons make things work by miracle.

Let's hope the new era that FM25 will launch will make things more nuanced.

[bosque]

On 04/09/2024 at 18:16, Delial said:

It's not really surprising to see a 4231 high pressing gegenpress with tons of TIs and 10 attack duties on pitch win the FM World Cup as we know that this kind of tactic often overperform. Why would the players try to make something more realistic if it's not working all the time?

What's sad is that the game is allowing this kind of "cheating" tactic. FM is supposed to be a simulation and, even though it's a game, it is sometimes frustrating to try to make realistic tactics while pushing every buttons make things work by miracle.

Let's hope the new era that FM25 will launch will make things more nuanced.

I think the frustration is you can't counter that strategy when in real life you can easily punish such an over-aggressive approach.

[FalkoNguyen]

The thing that makes me frustrated the most is the meta using nature to attack fullback. If you progress far enough in the save, good overlapping fullback is hard to find, and IFB is far easier to find and train. The meta of the tactic in recen FM versions is really boring to watch; chaos ball, cross, and, inshallah, the earlier version is far more entertaining.

[crusadertsar]

7 hours ago, FalkoNguyen said:

The thing that makes me frustrated the most is the meta using nature to attack fullback. If you progress far enough in the save, good overlapping fullback is hard to find, and IFB is far easier to find and train. The meta of the tactic in recen FM versions is really boring to watch; chaos ball, cross, and, inshallah, the earlier version is far more entertaining.

Hard to find good overlapping fullbacks as you progress in the game? Really?

Are you playing FM24? Because I'm in 2034-35 season and I see plenty of overlapping fullback/attacking wingback types. Could have posted more examples but got bored and just wanted to get back into playing the game.

META is not really META if it only applies to your save.

And this whole thread is hilarious by the way.

Edited September 9 by crusadertsar

[FalkoNguyen]

16 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Hard to find good overlapping fullbacks as you progress in the game? Really?

Yeah, and it's not just me who is imagining this issue.

https://community.sports-interactive.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2024-early-access-bugs-tracker/finances-training-medical-and-development-centres/newgen-fullbacks-still-have-low-crossing-and-dribbling-r18233/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-128832