Dear SI, please can we have a bloat free and streamlined version

[trevjim]

I appreciate that all hands are on deck for the big changes for 25, but I plead with SI that they introduce a streamlined version of FM in later releases. Like the brilliant Touch version they stopped doing.

 

I have recently been playing CM 01/02 and actually find it more enjoyable than recent releases of FM. It's completely bloat free and no tedious or repetitive player and press interactions. No promises to make to player's that they will cry about. No social media. No irrelevant emails in the inbox etc

 

It's so much more streamlined and you know what? It's so much better for it. Theres plenty of QOL additions and depth that has been added since obviously, but it's a better game IMO.

Someone on here once said that FM is 95% transfer/scouting and tactics. The other 5% is largely irrelevant in terms of impact on the game. Yet since probably 2011, that 5% has been getting bigger in terms of bloat. It's tedious. Repetitive. Broken and most times irrelevant.

 

Some of it was added to increase immersion, yet it's so tedious it actually detracts from it and makes the game less fun.

FM released the Touch version in past versions (aka classic for a time) and I gave it a go at the time and enjoyed it far more than the full fat version. It ran quicker. Was less tedious and had all the good bits of FM with the bad stuff much more streamlined. It wasn't perfect but it's such a shame they got rid of it. I know you can designate some stuff to the Ass Man but it's not the same. Touch ran like a dream too.

 

Immersion is created through matches we play and in our heads. Not through a player being angry because I praised him. Or my team throwing a hissy fit because I felt we could improve on our top 4 finish the next season and maybe challenge for the title. Things like agents offering irrelevant players are not immersive or useful. Examples like that are things that absolutely happen in real life, but are not needed in a game. 

 

I appreciate there are some people that enjoy the forementioned features, so I am not suggesting we get rid of them, but please SI, can we have a new and improved "Touch" version 

[grade]

I agree and here is suggestion.

Instead of calling Touch… called it… wait for it… FM Classic.

[trevjim]

53 minutes ago, grade said:

I agree and here is suggestion.

Instead of calling Touch… called it… wait for it… FM Classic.

Agreed. 

 

I think Touch put a lot of people off as they believed it was a mobile type version of the game. Which it wasn't. It was the full game just with stuff like training and media streamlined. The core aspects like Tactics and transfers were the same. Used the same engine etc.

 

I almost neglected it myself until I saw people on here raving about it. I would still play it if they let you update the database.

I don't have the data to back this up but it felt on here and Reddit like more and more people were migrating to Touch over the full fat version and the cynical side of me wonders if they pulled it to stop that and protect the full fat version. Not really a good look when the features you are adding year on year are putting people off

Edited September 7 by trevjim

[qwerty22]

And to prove your point

Most bloat features that never worked properly are starting to be removed

Also It would've been a better route if they used AI for example to improve game logic specially in staff behavior, press conferences news and social media.

ON FM2024 being asked by the press about away goals significance in a competition where away goals don't count for 2 or why a foreign player is missing when the competition rules is only for domestic players is a joke.  

Edited September 7 by qwerty22

[Livelihood13]

Agree with all of the above!

What I find really interesting is watching the streamers who essentially get paid to play FM… even they are clicking through the game at a million miles per hour most of the time, ignoring 95% of anything outside of match day unless its a transfer window. If these people with all the time in the world can’t sit through press conferences or set up full training schedules etc, then what chance does Joe Bloggs working 9-5 have!?

The people who think normal FM is fine are people with hundreds of hours to burn or people who can ignore the side stuff like media etc (admittedly I hate delegating as seeing my assistant say crazy stuff or take the plaudits is cringe to say the least) and happily carry on. 
 

Time for a change me thinks!

[Marko1989]

I would love a version where almost everything is the same, but there are as few player complaints as possible. Like 20 years ago, only if he is a star player and you don't play him enough he can complain and that is it.

The issue is - you have limited sentences you can offer to a player who wants to leave, you can't talk to him since you can't give him complex answers like - 

"Don't you see how good we are playing, you can become a legend here, in coming years we will be even better with all these talents, please stay for a little bit longer and if in 2 years you still think we are not good enough you can go bla bla bla..."

If he is complaining about playing time you can't say to him "Hey you annoying *****, you are not playing every single game because I am trying to keep you fresh for more important games" and so on. 
( maybe this is possible in newer versions but I went back to FM 21 for quite some time )

I have FM 2024 but I am afraid to even start the long-term save because of player interactions

Edited September 8 by Marko1989

[jcafcwbb]

We already have a bloat free version of Football Manager. It is called Football Manager Console version.

There is barely any press interaction - there are no pre and post match conferences. I haven't found any player interaction apart from when they are moaning about playing time - and with that and the team meeting I have improved morale as the suggestions are fewer. Training is stripped back as is everything else.

I wonder if they will ever release this version on PC. I think the console version is the most fun version of the game.

[El Payaso]

12 hours ago, Livelihood13 said:

Agree with all of the above!

What I find really interesting is watching the streamers who essentially get paid to play FM… even they are clicking through the game at a million miles per hour most of the time, ignoring 95% of anything outside of match day unless its a transfer window. If these people with all the time in the world can’t sit through press conferences or set up full training schedules etc, then what chance does Joe Bloggs working 9-5 have!?

The people who think normal FM is fine are people with hundreds of hours to burn or people who can ignore the side stuff like media etc (admittedly I hate delegating as seeing my assistant say crazy stuff or take the plaudits is cringe to say the least) and happily carry on. 
 

Time for a change me thinks!

The reason for the first part is probably the low level of difficulty which doesn't force us to pay attention to detail and utilizing different features of the game. I don't follow streamers anymore nowadays and rarely did before but at least in the past practically none of them were actually good as managers even though they were always successful in the game. 

The second is something I disagree on. I don't have any spare time in my life and I have periods where I might not play FM at all for weeks. And I rarely get past season two in my saves but I would still say that instead of chopping things of and streamlining, the game would rather need more challenge and time-consuming features on many of the key areas like setting up tactics, training, scouting and team building.

Even with a limited time I have and the attention that I pay to my gameplay, I could still easily have even multiple long-term save games on FM each year but sadly I don't believe that the game is that well suitable for that. And the way to fix this issue can be found from the two previous chapters of this message. 

[Malicious Penguin]

47 minutes ago, jcafcwbb said:

We already have a bloat free version of Football Manager. It is called Football Manager Console version.

There is barely any press interaction - there are no pre and post match conferences. I haven't found any player interaction apart from when they are moaning about playing time - and with that and the team meeting I have improved morale as the suggestions are fewer. Training is stripped back as is everything else.

I wonder if they will ever release this version on PC. I think the console version is the most fun version of the game.

It is available on PC through the Microsoft Store/free with game pass.

[dannyo666]

21 hours ago, trevjim said:

Agreed. 

 

I think Touch put a lot of people off as they believed it was a mobile type version of the game. Which it wasn't. It was the full game just with stuff like training and media streamlined. The core aspects like Tactics and transfers were the same. Used the same engine etc.

 

I almost neglected it myself until I saw people on here raving about it. I would still play it if they let you update the database.

I don't have the data to back this up but it felt on here and Reddit like more and more people were migrating to Touch over the full fat version and the cynical side of me wonders if they pulled it to stop that and protect the full fat version. Not really a good look when the features you are adding year on year are putting people off

24 years playing FM and i always thought touch was mobile only.....I know touch wasn't around for 24 years but to me i always thought that was the mobile version....Everyday is a school day

[trevjim]

45 minutes ago, dannyo666 said:

24 years playing FM and i always thought touch was mobile only.....I know touch wasn't around for 24 years but to me i always thought that was the mobile version....Everyday is a school day

Yeh the name change was a mistake imo for that exact reason.

 

It was essentially full FM with training, media, interactions and staff all streamlined.

The tactics and transfers were the same. Same database etc (although couldn't use custom DBs)

 

It got rid of so much of the stuff we all complain about and kept all the good stuff.

[santy001]

The game has been streamlined and become more efficient in so many areas I think people have failed to realise the last few years. Saving/Loading - way faster than a few years ago. Processing this year has been a phenomenal improvement. Holidaying through international breaks used to be the point during play where I could go to make a hot drink, come back and still have a couple of minutes before the game was done. Now it's staggeringly fast in comparison and I'm usually several minutes late back to the point processing finished. 

Delegating press to staff isn't a danger anymore, it has been a few years since I've had an incident where staff have gone off the rails and done something negative in an interview. Maybe that's just anecdotal good fortune but I haven't done a press conference in FM23 or FM24 and had zero ill-consequences. I've only had to get more involved with things like training and the like because getting 100-104 points a season hasn't been enough in my network game to win the title so trying to eke out a couple more points through that area made sense. 

There were times with different aspects it definitely felt like you were, more likely than not, going to get negative consequences if you trusted your staff. These days with most elements in my experience it's middle of the road or better than you'll do yourself unless you're putting some serious focus on it. Further improvements will always be welcome in those areas, but they really do seem to be optional to engage with in my experience.

A lot of things like the press, training, they have the ability to add some depth if that is what you're after. The more mundane day to day elements of being a manager that will appeal to some players. 

[Tonton_Zola]

On 07/09/2024 at 15:39, grade said:

I agree and here is suggestion.

Instead of calling Touch… called it… wait for it… FM Classic.

I have an even better idea.

lets call it..

Football Manager.

[Tonton_Zola]

8 hours ago, El Payaso said:

The reason for the first part is probably the low level of difficulty which doesn't force us to pay attention to detail and utilizing different features of the game. I don't follow streamers anymore nowadays and rarely did before but at least in the past practically none of them were actually good as managers even though they were always successful in the game. 

The second is something I disagree on. I don't have any spare time in my life and I have periods where I might not play FM at all for weeks. And I rarely get past season two in my saves but I would still say that instead of chopping things of and streamlining, the game would rather need more challenge and time-consuming features on many of the key areas like setting up tactics, training, scouting and team building.

Even with a limited time I have and the attention that I pay to my gameplay, I could still easily have even multiple long-term save games on FM each year but sadly I don't believe that the game is that well suitable for that. And the way to fix this issue can be found from the two previous chapters of this message. 

I think the features you mention are worse than ‘bloat.’ 
 

They often feel like poorly or unclearly executed mini games, in parts actively annoying, and with little apparent player agency / strategic choice. 
 

That isn’t bloat. That’s just unsuccessful game design. 
 

the best thing SI have done in the last few weeks? Remove things. More to come I hope.

[El Payaso]

1 hour ago, santy001 said:

The game has been streamlined and become more efficient in so many areas I think people have failed to realise the last few years. Saving/Loading - way faster than a few years ago. Processing this year has been a phenomenal improvement. Holidaying through international breaks used to be the point during play where I could go to make a hot drink, come back and still have a couple of minutes before the game was done. Now it's staggeringly fast in comparison and I'm usually several minutes late back to the point processing finished. 

Delegating press to staff isn't a danger anymore, it has been a few years since I've had an incident where staff have gone off the rails and done something negative in an interview. Maybe that's just anecdotal good fortune but I haven't done a press conference in FM23 or FM24 and had zero ill-consequences. I've only had to get more involved with things like training and the like because getting 100-104 points a season hasn't been enough in my network game to win the title so trying to eke out a couple more points through that area made sense. 

There were times with different aspects it definitely felt like you were, more likely than not, going to get negative consequences if you trusted your staff. These days with most elements in my experience it's middle of the road or better than you'll do yourself unless you're putting some serious focus on it. Further improvements will always be welcome in those areas, but they really do seem to be optional to engage with in my experience.

A lot of things like the press, training, they have the ability to add some depth if that is what you're after. The more mundane day to day elements of being a manager that will appeal to some players. 

This is well-written.

I would have nothing against having a more streamlined version of the game for those who think they need it but I'd much rather see more effort put on the full fat version of the game and making some if the big features of it more comprehensive and challenging. For example training is something that should be a huge part of managing a football team but currently you can practically leave it as it is and still see no major set-backs in performances and player development. In my opinion all these bigger areas of the game should be so that you can both be successful at them but also fail miserably. That, in my opinion, should be the main focus for SI. 

[trevjim]

1 hour ago, santy001 said:

The game has been streamlined and become more efficient in so many areas I think people have failed to realise the last few years. Saving/Loading - way faster than a few years ago. Processing this year has been a phenomenal improvement. Holidaying through international breaks used to be the point during play where I could go to make a hot drink, come back and still have a couple of minutes before the game was done. Now it's staggeringly fast in comparison and I'm usually several minutes late back to the point processing finished. 

Delegating press to staff isn't a danger anymore, it has been a few years since I've had an incident where staff have gone off the rails and done something negative in an interview. Maybe that's just anecdotal good fortune but I haven't done a press conference in FM23 or FM24 and had zero ill-consequences. I've only had to get more involved with things like training and the like because getting 100-104 points a season hasn't been enough in my network game to win the title so trying to eke out a couple more points through that area made sense. 

There were times with different aspects it definitely felt like you were, more likely than not, going to get negative consequences if you trusted your staff. These days with most elements in my experience it's middle of the road or better than you'll do yourself unless you're putting some serious focus on it. Further improvements will always be welcome in those areas, but they really do seem to be optional to engage with in my experience.

A lot of things like the press, training, they have the ability to add some depth if that is what you're after. The more mundane day to day elements of being a manager that will appeal to some players. 

I agree that many things have been improved and processing is a lot faster. Especially since the move to 64bit.

Having played CM 01/02 recently, you see both sides. It's a lovely streamlined game. Probably the peak of the series, but there is so many QOL improvements that are missing that have been introduced since.

 

However the sheer volume of posts and comments on here about bloat still shows there is a serious issue with it.

The fact there is a huge demand for Touch to return and get some love, also solidifies that.

[santy001]

There's a reason why Touch didn't continue on the PC, it was something SI were open about at the time. It had a declining player count after the initial introduction. I'm someone who played it for its greater speed as it made sense for network games but honestly on FM24 there isn't much difference in the time it takes to do stuff compared to the last version of Touch on PC. 

Others have mentioned the Console version exists on PC via gamepass and the Touch version is still out there on Switch if you have one. I feel realistically we'd only need responsibilities in the game to have an export/save file system like tactics/training etc you can just do once and import on the next save game creation away from the streamlined experience. 

[flogside]

Only thing I didn't like about fm classic was the lack of edited databases and the cap on leagues and players loaded. If they changed that, and of course made general tweaks to the game......would have been great!!!

[grade]

4 hours ago, Tonton_Zola said:

I think the features you mention are worse than ‘bloat.’ 
 

They often feel like poorly or unclearly executed mini games, in parts actively annoying, and with little apparent player agency / strategic choice. 
 

That isn’t bloat. That’s just unsuccessful game design. 
 

the best thing SI have done in the last few weeks? Remove things. More to come I hope.

The problem they starting to venture into removing the wrong features, like International management. Yes, it was quite bad, but SI ignored it for a decade or more.

I find it questionable to choose to revamp it now of all versions...

[MorrisseyMuse]

On 07/09/2024 at 15:39, grade said:

I agree and here is suggestion.

Instead of calling Touch… called it… wait for it… FM Classic.

Agree fully! with this and the thread sentiments in general

 

It's mainly what inspired me to start editing FM2008. It feels like the last truly fun game before the franchise changed the UI and began picking up 'bloat'.

[d d]

FM is more bloated in recent times, but with FM24, the speed of the processing is just as quick as touch at times. It does not take long now to process through the days to get to your next game.

[vrig]

They're removing enough features that I would expect that an FM25 and an FM25 Touch would be basically identical.

[rp1966]

New streamlined version:

[trevjim]

1 hour ago, rp1966 said:

New streamlined version:

What's this from?

[rp1966]

23 minutes ago, trevjim said:

What's this from?

Just a joke - AI generated by Ideogram. Probably should have made it three buttons - with the third being 'DOF Buy Players'

 

Edited September 9 by rp1966

[Cometdude]

A streamlined version that is not reliant on (in my opinion) over priced microtransactions so that you can use the editor on is the dream.

[Nessaja Wolf]

On 08/09/2024 at 18:45, santy001 said:

There's a reason why Touch didn't continue on the PC, it was something SI were open about at the time. It had a declining player count after the initial introduction. I'm someone who played it for its greater speed as it made sense for network games but honestly on FM24 there isn't much difference in the time it takes to do stuff compared to the last version of Touch on PC. 

Others have mentioned the Console version exists on PC via gamepass and the Touch version is still out there on Switch if you have one. I feel realistically we'd only need responsibilities in the game to have an export/save file system like tactics/training etc you can just do once and import on the next save game creation away from the streamlined experience. 

It would have been interesting to see the player count for Touch pre-covid and then if the impact of the lockdowns/being stuck indoors led more players to switch to the full fat version over the 2 years.  I know I certainly did at the time. 

[DJ Sir Matthew]

On 09/09/2024 at 06:34, d d said:

FM is more bloated in recent times, but with FM24, the speed of the processing is just as quick as touch at times. It does not take long now to process through the days to get to your next game.

What about the processing breaks? In FM23 they are still way too frequent to my taste (even with the checkbox ticked to have less of those).

 

In my opinion, the way forward for FM is to have a full fat version that allows to have certain parts streamlined through preferences settings. In recent FM versions that is already possible but the whole preferences, league details, staff responsibilities etc screens are bloated and tedious in themselves too. F.e. renewing contracts of staff, why have a separate checkbox for each role? Just have a general yes/no button and if you select yes, then let people choose if they want to take responsibility for all staff or certain roles. So if you're not interested in this aspect, it's only 1 check box. Same for player interaction like praising/warning form and/or training or promises etc. Why not allow the Ass Man to take charge of this?

In the end, you should be able to play FM only worrying about who to select for the next game or play FM having access to all nuts and bots, and every scenario in between and that within one product. Which I hope is the route SI has chosen with the move to Unity and using a modular approach.

[Supermercado99]

On 07/09/2024 at 23:55, trevjim said:

I have recently been playing CM 01/02 and actually find it more enjoyable than recent releases of FM. It's completely bloat free and no tedious or repetitive player and press interactions. No promises to make to player's that they will cry about. No social media. No irrelevant emails in the inbox etc

FM is a mighty effort of a game to put together but agree that an option to dial back some of the monotonous stuff would be great. Just let me do media interaction, team meetings, deadline days, draws etc... from the inbox. If people want to choose to have the draw experiences and backgrounds for press conferences let them, but have the option to streamline it for enthusiasts. Put the nice graphics on the ads, give those of us who just want to get through a game an option to make it quicker. 

I've also got back into CM01/02 recently, and I think the devs of the modern version should spend a couple of days playing it and realise that more complicated is not always better. There's a lot of great stuff that game doesn't have, but it's so much easier to play through without all the fancy stuff. Media interaction should be a bit more than an inbox message saying "Player X is doing well" - build up praise/play down praise, but I don't need to go to a different screen and respond to four questions by A. Journo from the London Football Times to do the same thing.

[trevjim]

4 hours ago, Supermercado99 said:

 

I've also got back into CM01/02 recently, and I think the devs of the modern version should spend a couple of days playing it and realise that more complicated is not always better. There's a lot of great stuff that game doesn't have, but it's so much easier to play through without all the fancy stuff. Media interaction should be a bit more than an inbox message saying "Player X is doing well" - build up praise/play down praise, but I don't need to go to a different screen and respond to four questions by A. Journo from the London Football Times to do the same thing.

Really good point. That would be a fantastic way of doing it.

 

Providing they make the team and players reaction more logical than they currently are of course 

 

 

Edited Friday at 04:33 by trevjim